Note: Transcripts may contain errors. If you wish to re-use all, or part of, a transcript, please contact CBC for permission. Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print. Copyright © CBC 2025

Front Burner Transcript for January 31, 2025

Host: Jayme Poisson

JAYME POISSON: Hey, everybody. It's Jayme. It's been nearly two weeks since a ceasefire brought an end to more than 15 months of violence in Gaza. And now hundreds of thousands of Gazans are returning to the north, or what's left of it. In addition to the physical damage to Gaza's infrastructure, the health ministry there says more than 46,000 people are dead. According to figures from the United Nations and Reuters, more than half of those killed were women and children. So today on the show, we're talking with Abubaker Abed. Abubaker is a Palestinian freelance journalist from Deir al-Balah. When I spoke to him over Zoom on Thursday, he was bundled up in a few jackets because it's quite cold in Gaza right now. We discussed a lot of things, including what he's witnessed since being thrust into this role of war correspondent, how Palestinians are feeling about this fragile peace, and what comes next. I want to give you a gentle warning here that this is a difficult interview to listen to. Abubaker gives some very harrowing accounts of war and despair. There are some details in here about children that are tough to hear. All right. Here he is.

[Music: Theme]

JP: Abubaker, I want to thank you so much for being with me today.

ABUBAKER ABED: You're so welcome. It's my pleasure to be here.

JP: So in the hours following the ceasefire, there were scenes of jubilation, right? Really, as people on the ground started to come to terms with what an end to violence was going to mean for them. And can you just take me to that day on the ground? What were you seeing and hearing from people when the ceasefire was announced?

ABUBAKER ABED: Everyone like was playing the drums, everyone was chanting in the streets, everyone was singing.

SOUNDCLIP

[people chanting, whistling and drumming, children shouting jubilantly, people clapping and chanting]

ABUBAKER ABED: And they really went in marches in thousands out in the streets just to say that this was our day, and just to say that this rule has come to an end. Because, you know, just to taste displacement is absolutely horrifying. To taste all parts of death is absolutely unbearable. And to go through starvation, freezing temperatures, and all these horrifying acts is unimaginable for any human being around the world. And it was very hard to speak to any glimmer of hope. But we as Palestinians, and particularly when I talk about myself, I just said to myself from the start that whatever happens, and despite the fact that I lost many of my family members, many of my friends and colleagues, I just clung onto a source of hope that I kept inside me. And yes, in the end, we were happy that this ended. We know that there are a lot of questions over this ceasefire deal, and we don't know if it will hold or not, but until now, things are going well. But yet, we are still suffering. The humanitarian situation has not improved totally. But again, we were happy, everyone was happy that the bloodbath has really stopped, which is the most important for me.

JP: Abubaker, I want to say how sorry I am to hear that you lost family members and friends. I'm really, really sorry to hear that. Do you mind if I ask you a little bit more about what it's been like for you personally? You're a reporter, but obviously, I think as you mentioned, a Palestinian first. And this has been one of the deadliest wars in recorded history for journalists. And I know investigations by the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon, The Guardian, and the Committee to Protect Journalists have concluded that many of your colleagues were targeted with violence over the course of Israel's campaign in Gaza. And, you know, can you tell me a little bit more about what that was like for you, working in these conditions?

ABUBAKER ABED: People are not aware of what being a journalist is like inside the besieged territory. People are not aware of the hardships we are facing. Because journalism simply means death in Gaza. As for me, I wouldn't call myself a journalist. I would rather say I'm a genocide documenter because it is just like we are being killed, we are being tortured, we're being starved, and we're being... like, in every way we're being brutalized. I remember when I was doing stories -- because I'm a digital and TV reporter -- I remember, like, many times I was walking kilometres just to file a story. I was watching amid the darkness and amid the bombings, the continuous bombings, one of the nights that I vividly, vividly remember was November 23rd of 2023. The next neighbourhood was completely flattened and hit by at least four F-16 rockets. And each rocket causes a crater that is so big, so huge. And I was violently awakened that time, and I was violently brutalized as everyone in my neighbourhood. So despite that, I just keep writing and just kept writing and just kept reporting and kept talking to people. So it wasn't easy. It's never been easy to do any kind of reporting inside Gaza on the ground, because you talk to people who are simply very much traumatized and brutalized by the war, and then, you are putting more trauma to yourself, more pain to yourself. So your pain is being compounded when you do any kind of reporting. This is apart from the fact that we see every day scenes of pure horror inside the hospital. You see people dismembered, incinerated, immolated. That is something I saw myself. This is the brutality that we are talking to people about, but people don't, do not care. That's a huge dilemma for us. It's very frustrating when we see human beings like us -- we are of the same composition, of the same human composition, but then, we had to go through all of this, all these episodes of horror and terror, just to let people know that we are being, that we are being killed and we are being genocided here in Gaza. So it was a big problem that you are doing this reporting and you know that you might be the next target. This is also, as you said, in addition to mourning the death of more than 200 journalists in Gaza. And so, it's a frustrating and it is very, very heart-wrenching.

JP: I wonder if I could ask you, I have watched you and your colleagues report over the last year with an immeasurable amount of bravery and grace. And where does it come from? How do you do it?

ABUBAKER ABED: Because it's our homeland. It's our homeland, it's our duty. Like, I know that at any point I will be bombed. I know I'll be tortured. I know that I will be losing my life at any point. I know. But I want to give it. Because I'm the rightful owner of this land. This is not the start of my story. When I was born back in 2002, I was born to this conflict. I've been through four wars before this. I lost many of my family members, not only during this war, but during the previous ones. So, look at it, I'm an accidental war correspondent. This is not the thing that I want to do as a young, ambitious and passionate man. Everyone has their ambitions and their goals and their aspirations. But to me, it's not war. It's football. But I had to do it because it's my homeland. I had to risk myself and put myself in peril because it's simply my homeland. I want to live. I want to be able that I deserve to live in dignity, that... This is what is happening to us. We want to really, really wake the world from its slumber. That's what we want to tell the world. But even when we did all of this reporting, and we were reporting tirelessly without any pause at all, and putting ourselves in peril all the time, and without any water, without any means, without any right means at all, then we were disappointed. We were absolutely let down. I don't know why. Again, we don't have, me personally and for so many, we don't have any political affiliations. We don't have [unclear]. We deserve to live in peace. Why have I been occupied, subjugated and suffocated in a tiny area of land that is just 365 square kilometres? I can't move outside Gaza at all. I need a permission. Look at other people who are my age around the world. They can really, really move around the world. But I can't. Because I'm being-- This is my story. This has been my story for the past 17 years. When this siege, strictly imposed siege on Gaza started, the people are not conscious about that. So they have to be.

JP: How old are you?

ABUBAKER ABED: I'm 22. I've recently become 22.

[music]

JP: Have you heard much debate or discussion about the nature of the deal? About the terms of the arrangement or the politics behind it? Or are people there just happy that any agreement was struck and maybe less interested and invested in the details of it?

ABUBAKER ABED: They were, again, the most important thing for them was that they would not have to endure more losses, and that this bloodbath stopped. That is the most important. Now, forget about the buildings destroyed, forget about the carnage, which is unfathomable. Forget about all the previous killings and the atrocities that are going to be revealed in next days and that have been revealed already around different areas in Gaza. But what is really significant for us is that this has stopped. We cannot really keep losing people. We cannot really keep mourning our deaths. We cannot really keep grieving our losses. We will have to be conscious about the fact that we haven't yet grieved the losses of our loved ones during the war. They will have to be aware of that. So, I know, we know at some point that this ceasefire deal might be violated and this war might be continued or resumed. However, we-- this can really give us the time to relax, to breathe again, to feel human again, because we were simply stripped of our humanity during the past 14 months. So the equation is very, is very crystal clear. But people are deliberately -- you feel it as a Palestinian sometimes -- that people in the West, particularly, and other areas around the world, are deliberately turning a blind eye and a deaf ear to what is happening. This is absolutely unacceptable. I don't know why this is happening. But again, this ceasefire deal can bring a huge source of relief and reprieve and respite from what has been happening. Because people need time to recover, to rehabilitate, and also, to forget about the pains that they have to-- that they had to endure.

JP: Since the ceasefire, have you seen people start that process of grieving?

ABUBAKER ABED: Yeah, I've seen people who were not able to go to the graves of their loved ones and their family numbers. They went there and kept crying for hours. Some people could not really believe, can't really believe that their loved ones or family members or maybe friends or colleagues, that they have departed this world. They cannot really believe. And on a personal level, my very dearest friend, Al-Hassan Mattar, was killed back in December 2023. I haven't seen his grave yet. He didn't have any political affiliations at all. I just keep asking myself all the time, like, why was he bombed? This is absolutely insane. It's insanely brutal. And just to see people, some people here, haven't yet find their loved ones who were killed during the course of this genocide. They haven't yet. They're still searching under the rubble to see their loved ones. I talk to people from different areas, and I saw scenes myself of people who are really retrieving skulls, jaws, a-- hands, fingers, limbs from under the rubble of their loved ones and their family members who have been killed during the past 14 months, particularly around the Netzarim Corridor, this Corridor which has been debated over by the two sides. There, Israeli snipers and quadcopters, as well as [unclear], have been shelling the areas very, very, very continuously without any stop at all. So, many people are still being recovered from those areas, and many of those bodies are decomposing. So the scenes coming out and emanating from there are beyond imagination. They are absolutely super horrifying and simply terrifying. I saw today, I saw one of the people, one of the young men who returned to their home in Gaza, to his home in Gaza, and he found his sister was killed probably some months ago, and in his home. And he just found the jaw, the lower jaw of her. Only that. So he took it and took it to the graveyard and put it there with-- along with her, along with her body. So...

JP: Oh my God.

ABUBAKER ABED: ...what is that?

JP: [emotional] Sorry, that was really... difficult to hear.

ABUBAKER ABED: It's fine. Look, I don't want you to tear. We are hopeful. But we want to tell you what has been happening for us, although we're not a party. We haven't been a party to this war. We're just like any human beings around the world. But some people in the West have been given consent to the Israelis to continue this. This is the problem. But yes, this is only one story of millions of stories. Every single one in Gaza has a tragedy to tell. But yet, we're still hopeful. And we want to rebuild. And we want to do everything that we can. Just to live and tell people that we live in dignity. That we should live in dignity. We deserve to live in dignity. And to do all of the things that we lived. Gaza has always been marginalized, ostracized. Has always been a lower class, a lower tiny area that people don't care about. We had to go through a genocide so people could really look at us. Why? Why we needed to lose more than 41,000 people and over 10,000 under the rubble, and more than 110,000 have been wounded, so that people could really look at us? This has been the same story for the past 17 years. Like, one thing that I want to tell you. My neighbour, he was bombed in November 2023. He's a [unclear], he's a disabled person. A child, sorry. A five-year-old child. And he is disabled. His family was bombed during this war in November 2023. His family wrote his name on the wall so that people probably can find his body under the rubble. He's (under?) the rubble since November 2023. What on earth has this child, disabled child, what threat has he posed to the Israeli army? What threat? This is my question. And his family, for one year, hasn't been able to get his body or any of his body parts, any at all, from under the rubble of their home.

[music]

JP: I have been watching people make the journey back to their homes in the north, like watching images and videos of them. And as you mentioned, the UN estimates that around 66% of the physical infrastructure of Gaza has been damaged or destroyed. Much of the worst destruction is in the north. And for those people, what are they returning to today? And without water and food and medicine and shelter, how are people able to make this trip home that I've been watching? How are they able to, like, live on the ruins of their former homes?

ABUBAKER ABED: They're coping with such dilemma without any life means at all. They are returning to piles of rubble because their homes have been reduced to rubble. Simple as that. And more than half a million people have made the journey back home. Now, the water available in those areas in the northern parts of the [unclear] is not available. It's not enough. And it doesn't meet the needs of the least demands of those people and the number now seeking shelter there. And a lot of families' scenarios haven't changed. They are getting back to a tent. They are now living in a tent. The same that has happened to them or occurred to them for the last 14 months. So nothing has changed. Israel continues blocking shelters, caravans and containers from entering Gaza. Why Israel continues doing so? We are in a ceasefire deal. It's a ceasefire time. Why? What is the threat of allowing caravans, containers and shelters, proper shelters, from getting into Gaza and helping those people? Yesterday, one of the children that we've seen in Beit Hanoun, in the northern part of the Strip -- and Beit Hanoun is now a flat landscape of just debris piled up everywhere. And it's very glacial there. Of course, when you live in an agricultural land [unclear], a flat land without any homes, without any population around here, then the weather will be so, so much worse and glacial. Now, this girl, who is just one year old or six months old, died from hypothermia. This is the eighth case in Gaza that has died from hypothermia. This girl didn't have any blankets, didn't have any [unclear], they didn't have any proper shelters, any medicine, any food. So, how can people cope? How, simply, how can people cope with this absolutely disastrous humanitarian situation? Beyond disastrous. So, it is the same. You shouldn't be surprised if more people are dying from the same reason over next days. Because people haven't got access, haven't obtained access yet to all life means in northern Gaza. They have to walk kilometres to get a gallon of water. They have to walk kilometres for a plate of rice. So, what does that feel like? It is not a... It's inhumane. It's like... Probably, I will tell you, sorry to tell, but believe it or not, animals in the forest have access to water, have access to, to life, to all life means, have access to food. But we don't. But we don't. Especially for children. Half of the population in Gaza is children. What I can see right now in the streets, believe me -- and come to Gaza. I hope you come one day and see that your eyes, by your eyes. What I can see is just every street in Gaza now has at least three to four people amputated, particularly children. It's a full generation of amputees that is co-authored by the U.S., that is co-authored by Israel and its intent of just genocide and exterminating a whole population. They will have to be aware of that, simple as that.

[music]

JP: I wanted to ask you about beyond the ceasefire. Many of the central demands of the Palestinian movement -- demands from the days of your grandparents, really -- remain unresolved. The demand for statehood and the demand to end the Israeli occupation, for example. In terms of many of the longer-term goals of the Palestinian movement, how likely or achievable are these in the eyes of many that you've been talking to on the ground lately? Or are they even a priority anymore?

ABUBAKER ABED: It's a priority. We will not rest until Palestine is free. As simple as that. Because, again, [unclear] I am, I am a refugee inside Deir al-Balah, although I still have a home in Deir al-Balah. But I'm still a refugee in Deir al-Balah. My hometown is [unclear], which is near Jerusalem. That is the area or the hometown that I haven't seen in my life. That my grandparents were expelled from. That my parents haven't seen ever in their lives. This is what I'm here for. This is what I'm struggling for. I'm fighting back against war. But again, we will not rest. We are the younger generation that are going to fight at full power and with everything we can until we see Palestine free.

JP: Abubaker, can I ask you, how are people on the ground there thinking about their relationship with Hamas?

ABUBAKER ABED: Again, most people here in Gaza don't have any political affiliation. Now, we know that Israel is the main reason behind what's happening. I told you from the start that... who destroyed people's houses? Is it Hamas? No, it's not Hamas. It's Israel. Who bombed my neighbour? It's Israel. Who really made me or forced me to go through starvation? It's Israel. It's not Hamas. It's not really logical, and it's not under the international law regulations that you put or you apply political punishment strategy on a population that half of which, have a which is children, for an action that a few people of the population has done. So for me, I don't have any political affiliations. Why, why I lost my family members? Why did I lose my very dearest friend? Why did I or was I subjected to all of this? The same for thousands. For many. You cannot really blame or punish others for something a few people have done. So it's not about Hamas or any political parties. It's about Palestine and Israel. If this is a war against Hamas, why all those children have been killed?

[music]

JP: How are you thinking about your own next steps and your own future?

ABUBAKER ABED: That's a really good question. And honestly, as I said, because the next World Cup is going to be in your homeland -- in Canada, the United States and Mexico. And I told you from the start that I'm a football reporter and commentator. That's what I've been doing all the time. But I was evolved into more of a war correspondent because it's my homeland, it's my hometown. It's Gaza, it's a part of my heart. It's my heart, really. So I was evolved into this to do the reporting and really convey the message of my people. So the first thing that I'm really looking for is to rebuild my future and really direct my compass into this, to this football reporting. And hopefully, I can really, you know, I can really do the reporting that I was really... that I've always, always been desiring, particularly about the World Cup. I was utterly devastated that I didn't attend the previous World Cup or even do any reporting about it in Qatar, although it was in our country. But this time, I hope that I will have the chance to go and do the football reporting and forget about the war reporting completely. And just be in Canada, be in those countries, and just do what I love. Because I deserve to do what I love. So, I really hope to become or to forget about the war reporting and go for the football reporting, and hopefully I can be in the United States, Canada and Mexico for the next World Cup in 2026. That's... that's going to be a dream. That's going to be my ultimate dream, to be honest. And I think given what I've been doing, particularly during the war, I've also been reporting on the murder of my homeland players. More than 370 players have been killed in Gaza. Almost all stadiums -- only one stadium is still standing, which is al-Dura Stadium in Deir al-Balah. So, it's not. It's not what I wanted to do, reporting on the murder of my football players, or my homeland football players, or on the destruction, the massive destruction of football facilities here. It's not what I wanted. But what I want is to be standing on a football pitch and see the players playing and really cheering at the top of my lungs for the players, [unclear], for the teams that I love.

JP: Abubaker, I want to thank you so much for this.

ABUBAKER ABED: Yes, I will thank you.

[Music: Theme]

JP: All right. That's all for this week. Front Burner was produced this week by Allie Jaynes, Matt Amha, Kieran Oudshoorn, Lauren Donnelly, Mackenzie Cameron and Marco Luciano. Music is by Joseph Shabason. Our senior producer is Elaine Chau. Our executive producer is Nick McCabe-Lokos, and I'm Jayme Poisson. Thanks so much for listening and we'll talk to you next week.

For more Front Burner transcripts, please click here.

The harrowing return to northern Gaza - Transcript

Social Sharing