Ready and Able: Transcript of interview with Kevin Penny and Dee Osmond

CBC's Mainstreet Cape Breton spoke with  as part of its Ready And Able series on April 9, 2021. Here's a transcript of that conversation.

Jennifer Ludlow:

We continue, now, with our Ready and Able series. Ready and Able is an ongoing look at accessibility and inclusion in this province. Today, we're going to meet an interabled couple who are sharing their life's journey online. Interabled is the term given to a couple where one person has a disability and the other does not. Kevin Penny has a spinal cord injury which left him paralyzed from the neck down. But that hasn't stopped him and his partner, Dee Osmond from living life to the fullest and challenging disability stereotypes. The Halifax couple loves to travel and go on many adventures. They, then, share those experiences through their YouTube channel called Accessible Adventurers, their last big trip before the pandemic took them to Las Vegas. 

Kevin Penny:

Hey, Dee, can you get the supplies, the medical supplies I need for our trip? 

Dee Osmond:

Yeah, honey, just one second.

Kevin Penny:

Hi, my name is Kevin Penny. 

Dee Osmond:

My name is Dee Osmond. 

Kevin Penny:

And we run a YouTube channel called Accessible Adventurers.Hey guys, we're on the strip finally. Look up.

Dee Osmond:

It's insane! 

Kevin Penny:

Ever since we met and started dating, we always called our little getaways or rendezvous adventures, so it started out probably with our sailing. We met each other through disabled sailing. Once we started dating, we morphed into going to the beach using adaptive equipment. They're going on hikes, traveling and just really looking at the accessible world or inaccessible world that's around us and trying to figure out ways that we can make it better. 

Dee Osmond:

We got our rental car. 

Kevin Penny:

It was the white Ford Mustang. 

Dee Osmond:

Dreams do come true. 

Kevin Penny:

Oh God, we got the top up right now after we put it down, once we get it on the road. 

Jennifer Ludlow:

Those are some highlights from the Accessible Adventurers YouTube channel starring Kevin Penny and Dee Osmond. The interabled couple is open about their lived experiences and always willing to answer questions from viewers and from radio hosts like CBC's Wendy Bergfeldt.

Wendy Bergfeldt:

Dee, talk to me about sailing and how you were able to do that?

Dee Osmond:

So Kevin and I met through Sail Able, which is an adaptive sailing program here in Halifax. And that program is especially adapted and designed both specifically for individuals with physical disabilities. And Kevin can sail the boat independently using technology called Sip and Puff Technology, which he can explain a lot better than me. But essentially it allows him, by blowing and sucking on two straws, to steer the boat and make the adjustments to the sails independently. 

Wendy Bergfeldt:

So, Kevin, how did you get into sailing? What was it that made you want to do that? 

Kevin Penny:

Well, I was injured at the age of 15 with a spinal cord injury. And, at that time, I was very into sports, into the outdoors. And so for a long period of my life, almost 20 years after my accident, there was a gap there where I didn't have that thriller rush anymore. And through a good friend of mine, Paul Tingley, who is a Paralympic sailor, and I met him through the grapevine and he told me about disabled sailing. And I actually went out to Vancouver to a semi competition to learn the ropes. And the following year, we started a program here in Halifax in 2007. And it was just that sports that I could do independently, both recreationally and with on the racing side of things. And it just really, really opened up so many opportunities in my life and really more for me to have the confidence to do other out of the box things like going to the beach in a floating beach wheelchair or going on a hike or going on a roller coaster, maybe. So it really opened my eyes that there were still opportunities right there in front of me. I just had to think about it differently. 

Wendy Bergfeldt:

Tell me about how it is, I'm not a sailor, so I don't know. But both Kevin and Dee, one after the other, explain to me what it feels like to sail. 

Kevin Penny:

You go first.

Dee Osmond:

Okay, Yeah. I've been a competitive sailor my whole life and that was my main sport growing up. It is a very unique sport because there are so many factors that you can't control, the wind conditions, the waves, how your boats going to handle, so many things. And that kind of keeps it exciting because you can never go out two days, and you could be sailing in the same place, but experience something completely different. And so there's that element of no matter how much you practice, you still have to be able to anticipate the unexpected. And just being out on the water, it's like a different world, it's quiet. You get away from everything. And it's this kind of hyperfocusing that I haven't experienced in other places, I guess.

Kevin Penny:

To follow that, I think some of the same reasons why I enjoy sailing by the way. But for me, first of all, as I spoke earlier, it gave me a chance to do something independently with technology, which since then, I've used technology in so many other vast areas of my life. But for me to be able to control where I'm going, outside of my wheelchair, where I usually do have the control and to be on the water and I spoke of it earlier, I grew up in the outdoors in rural Nova Scotia. I love the outdoors. I love the ocean. I just love that sense of freedom. And for me, it's not just the sailing, it's the mental health. And what goes on with that and the feeling of that. And for me personally, I've met so many individuals across Canada, in similar situations as me, through the sailing sailboat sailing world, and it really has opened my eyes. And I've had some great relationships that will continue on. 

Wendy Bergfeldt:

Talk to me about being able to participate in outdoor sports in this province or outdoor events in this province when one uses a wheelchair. What sorts of situations did you encounter, Kevin? 

Kevin Penny:

Well, I just want to, I think there's got to be some clarification first, Wendy, I use an electric or power wheelchair. So, that allows me to be more mobile than the average person who might use a manual chair. So, my personal perspective can be much different than somebody elses. And what I can get through or get around is quite different than someone else. Namely, the big thing is, is what I've seen over my years is just a change in attitude about people thinking differently when they plan things, whether they go to the beach. I remember I use to go to the beach and there would be a boardwalk and I'd have to be at the top of the boardwalk and watch everyone else on the beach. Now, beaches are becoming more accessible to me. Well, not only can I go on the boardwalk, there's mats that can get me down to the water or on to the beach to experience that beach experience fully and really be included with everyone else. And I don't take that feeling lightly. I remember when I first got down on the beach and was able to be with Dee and my friends on the beach, the feeling was unbelievable. 

Wendy Bergfeldt:

Dee, you have made these YouTube videos and I'm wondering what people are saying about what they're seeing? 

Dee Osmond:

Yeah, it's definitely been interesting to watch the evolution of our, you know, adventures on social media. When we first started, we just kind of made this Instagram account to share a few pictures of the behind the scenes of our travel. And we didn't really tell anyone, like our friends or family, that we were doing it. And it was really interesting to connect with people from around the world who had similar situations or experiences that they could relate to what we were experiencing with our adventures. But over the past year with Covid-19, we've really looked more into our province and it's been really fun making videos about our local adventures and having Nova Scotians commenting and people saying, oh, I didn't realize that this opportunity was out there or that this place was accessible or that this is possible.  So that makes it really fun to kind of see that with information or with people seeing someone going out and doing something that maybe that can change people's attitudes towards accessibility and maybe motivate people to look at accessibility in a different way. 

Wendy Bergfeldt:

Kevin, how would you like people to look at accessibility? What would be the best case scenario?

Kevin Penny:

You know, with this series, I mean, we're looking at the accessibility of Nova Scotia being accessible by 2030, I believe. So, I think I see huge changes happening already, which you can see it around the city in the main downtown with more accessible door openers. But I really think what's going to make the big difference and I keep bringing back to it, Wendy and it's attitude and Dee touched on it, too. People are going to think about accessibility differently and realize that it might not affect you right now in your life, but at some point in your life, it's going to affect you, someone in your family or your friend group. So, when you say what the perfect world is, I think continued progress. Don't lose this momentum, continue thinking outside the box, talking to people with disabilities who use these systems or have great ideas. So, I'm just hoping that will continue. And I have very good confidence it will. And shows like this where people can hear about personal experiences, is so key to changing those attitudes. 

Jennifer Ludlow:

That's travel bloggers, Dee Osmond and Kevin Penny. They were speaking there with the CBC's Wendy Bergfeldt. In the last half hour, we had the first part of a conversation between Wendy Bergfeldt, Kevin Penny and Dee Osmond. Kevin uses a wheelchair since suffering a spinal cord injury that left him paralyzed from the neck down. But that hasn't stopped him and Dee from going on adventures. They first met at an accessible sailing program in Halifax. Now they travel together and share their experiences on their YouTube channel, Accessible Adventurers. Here's the rest of their conversation with Wendy Bergfeldt.

Wendy Bergfeldt:

There was a really interesting bit of research that came out of the March of Dimes maybe six weeks ago. And they interviewed a lot of people in their 20s who were living with disabilities about what they wanted in life. And they, you know, they said they wanted to fall in love. They wanted to have a partner. They wanted to have a home. They wanted to have a spontaneous life. And it was really aspirational. And I wondered, maybe, Kevin, if you could tell me when you hear those things and, you know, you obviously have those things, what would you say to those younger people who have those aspirations? 

Kevin Penny:

It's interesting because I think a lot of it and it's interesting that people say this because I think people are looking for peer support, especially when newly injured or newly disabled, especially early on, and wondering what the world's going to be like. And I was there at one point in my life. I didn't know if I was going to find love. I had all those ideas and luckily, it did work out for me. I mean, but it didn't work out on its own. I mean, I had a post-secondary education. I was able to find employment. I had adequate housing. I had supports for my disability related daily needs. I had that all set up through a lot of hard work and advocacy back in the 2000s. So those things are set up probably not as [illegible] as they should be. There's a lot of work to go when it comes to supporting people. But in the end, I just think, let's be hopeful and let's change those attitudes, so that people can realize that if people are supported properly, not asking for everything, but being supported properly and adequately, those other things will technically fall into place, if that's what you're looking for. Confidence is a big issue as well. People have very little confidence when you're newly injured and wondering will you find love? How will people see you? So speaking and interacting with people with disabilities was the best way for me to learn, well, we're not that much different. Just the way people see us might be different. So that attitude change really helps me look out on how I deal with people. And I'm so lucky to find Dee. And Dee and I have that great relationship together where we can go on adventures and work together as a team. And like, I said, I'm very, very lucky. But it didn't come easy. I had to work towards that.

Wendy Bergfeldt:

You know, Dee, people who work with their spouses. There's a real trick to it. I work with my spouse. What is the trick to working with your spouse in something in a creative industry? Because that's a whole other thing too. 

Dee Osmond:

Yeah, I think that that's a really good point, that it can definitely be challenging, but we found  that it's really brought us closer. Like, we talk about making a video every week, it forces us to do something together by kind of having this accountability that people are wanting to watch a video every week. It kind of motivates us to think, OK, what can we do that will be fun, that will be exciting, that will be new, and that is really motivating, I guess. 

Wendy Bergfeldt:

What was Europe like? You guys went to Europe. 

Dee Osmond:

Yeah, we both love seeing different parts of the world, different cultures. And it was just such a great experience to see the accessibility. We went to London and Paris and we took the Eurostar train, which was, honestly, the most accessible form of transportation that I've ever seen. And we just went exploring. And now we've got the itch and we can't wait to go and explore more of Europe together. 

Wendy Bergfeldt:

How does that train work? 

Dee Osmond:

Yeah, so, one of the biggest, I guess, limitations or barriers to accessible travel is airplanes. And this is something that I had no idea of before Kevin and I started traveling together. As individuals, who are wheelchair users, have to leave their chair behind at the gate and get lifted onto the airplane seat, and that, in itself, can be quite an intrusive procedure. And you're dependent on staff to lift you, who often don't have the appropriate training or experience. And then, Kevin has to let his wheelchair, which costs more than a car, be lifted into the airplane by staff who, once again, don't have the specialized training or equipment to do that. So often when we travel, it can be very stressful until we get to our destination about whether, you know, we're going to make it on and off the plane safely and whether or not Kevin's chair is going to get damaged, which, as you can imagine, that is his mobility, which would significantly impact our vacation. So, the thing that was special about the Eurostar is it's a train, so Kevin was able to stay in his power wheelchair on the train. We were able to book our tickets online super easy. We got the accessible seating. There was a discount because I was travelling as his assistant to help him with the train ride. So, and then, we got the tickets which were in first class. There were no questions asked. We were able to sit at this wonderful adapted table that was height adjustable where we were able to face each other and enjoy the train ride and not have to worry. And it was just like that moment was like, wow, I didn't realize travel could be like this. And so something that we've definitely been talking about and trying to raise awareness about is the inaccessibility of air travel. And if individuals can stay in their wheelchairs where they're comfortable on trains, on buses, taxis, cars, why can't they do that on an airplane, as well? And there's some really compelling research as to why that should be made possible. 

Wendy Bergfeldt:

Kevin, when I hear you both talk, I hear such great optimism about what can happen moving forward. And some of it's tied to technology and some of it's tied to attitudinal changes. And  I'm hearing communities and municipalities making decisions about how they're going to build things. Can you talk to me a little bit about whether I'm hearing optimism or just what that is? 

Kevin Penny:

I'm a positive person in nature. I'm the glass half full guy. I know sometimes that doesn't work with Dee. Sometimes we understand we think of things differently. But I am really optimistic because me being the person with a disability, I have a good spectrum of seeing how the world was back in the 90s, progressing to 2000, going through the 2010s and now to 2020 and there has to be optimism, without optimism, and what I really see the most optimist of all this, is I see municipalities, communities, not just making decisions, but reaching out to the people who those decisions will affect and getting their input. And that's what I'm so proud about Nova Scotia with this new accessibility legislation, is they're asking the people, its first voice, it came from the beginning. I've been asked many times what my opinion is on things. Provincial parks have reached out to Dee and I and asked, we're going to make a campsite more accessible, what do you think will work well?  I'm not an engineer. I'm not an architect, but I have lived experiences. So those things keep me optimistic because in the past that wasn't always the way. It would be built and then, well, might work out. Or we can change it or well, we can't. So it's a whole different mindset of attitude. It's thinking of it completely differently and I think it's working. 

Jennifer Ludlow:

Kevin Penny and Dee Osmond live in Halifax. You can follow them on YouTube and Instagram by searching Accessible Adventurers.