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SKS S4 E5 “Jr.”

By David Ridgen

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

[Crickets chirping and footsteps]

VOICE 1: On March 20^th…

VOICE 2: Run!

[Heavy breathing and running]

VOICE 1: ..only one movie experience this year will make you afraid to breathe.

VOICE 3: You won’t survive.

VOICE 2: We have to try.

VOICE 1: A Quiet Place: Part II. In theatres March 20^th. Tickets on sale now.

[Music]

ANNOUNCER: This is a CBC podcast.

[Cars driving past]

RIDGEN: How do you get upstairs? This way? Room one?

Al!

AL UNRAH: Yeah.

RIDGEN: Did, you know, a guy named Wayne Greavette?

AL: Yeah.

RIDGEN: You knew a guy named Wayne Greavette?

AL: Yeah.

RIDGEN: And did you used to work with him?

AL: Yeah.

RIDGEN: Can I talk to you for a minute? I work for CBC. I’m doing a program about him and I wanted to talk to anybody that knew him.

AL: No. No.

RIDGEN: Because I heard that you knew him very well, and that uh--

AL: No. No. I have no comment to make about that man. I don’t like him. I don’t want to know about him, and I do not want to have no business with him. He screwed me over and that’s it. No, that’s it. No more, that’s it. I’m done, goodbye, thank you.

[Door slams]

RIDGEN: I’m at a dinghy motel that appears to be made solely of concrete blocks in Southern Ontario. The man who just slammed the big green metal door in my face is Allan Unruh. Al is just one of Wayne’s many former co-workers and associates I’m trying to find, and apparently Al is ex-military with experience in explosive ordnance. Maybe he knows something. On the door staring at me, a crude chalk drawing of a smiley face sticking out its tongue. There’s not much left to do but leave.

[Car door slides open]

RIDGEN: Back in my car, I sit stewing long enough to see Al emerge from his building and walk down the street. Did something happen between Al and Wayne? I decide to approach Al again and follow him into a bar that he’s gone into.

AL: I owe you an apology, sir.

RIDGEN: You owe me an apology?

AL: Yeah, who are we talking about? Wayne Greavette or?

RIDGEN: Wayne Greavette.

AL: Yeah, OK. I know Wayne Greavette. I started thinking, I thought we were talking about somebody else.

RIDGEN: I understand that you were good friends with the Greavette family?

AL: Yeah, actually, we were. I was working for Conveyors Unlimited. But I heard about that, and, uh, I heard there was… like a flashlight or something, a package that he got in the mail. He opened it up and went boom.

RIDGEN: Al looks to be in his 50s, disheveled but clear-eyed, in a green collared golf shirt. We settle at a corner table near a pinball machine to talk about Wayne, and his murder.

How does it strike you the way the way that he was killed? I mean if someone wanted someone dead, why would do that with a bomb in the flashlight?

AL: That I find really strange. There would be better ways to off somebody than that way. Being ex-military myself.

[Laughs]

RIDGEN: What were you in the military?

AL: Combat engineers.

RIDGEN: How long were you in the engineers?

AL: 17 years.

RIDGEN: Where were you? Petawawa or...?

AL: Yeah. Petawawa, Chilliwack, Germany, Cyprus.

RIDGEN: What kind of explosives did you work with anyway?

AL: Oh, plastic, and forcite, and prell. I was trained to go in and look for them and defuse them.

RIDGEN: Now was there anyone else that you knew in the industry or business that had military experience like you? Or that would have had-- been able to handle plastic explosives?

AL: Not when I was over there.

RIDGEN: I guess the police were probably interested in that too?

AL: Oh, jeez, yeah, they went up one side and down the other side.

RIDGEN: Did they make you take a lie detector?

AL: No, I wasn’t lying to them. He says yeah I know about that stuff. Nah, I wouldn’t do that.

RIDGEN: At some point, I spoke to somebody that said that you had heard someone say that the killing was related to drugs or something like that?

AL: Well, that could be, but we don’t know that. I am just surmising. That’s all it is.

RIDGEN: Did you hear that from somebody else that?

AL: Well, you know, bar talk and all that. I was trying to figure out “Ok, the guy gets a flashlight bomb in the mail, now what’s this all about?” Now who’s going to mail it, is it mafia or is it the bikers or what?

RIDGEN: Bar room speculation then?

AL: Yeah

RIDGEN: Nobody came up to you and said, “I have information that says he was killed by--"

AL: No, nobody in particular. We were just sitting and talking and discussing. And we were trying to wonder why? Or what happened.

RIDGEN: I talk to Al for about an hour, but don’t hear anything new.

OK, thanks very much! Good to meet you.

AL: Sorry about the hard time there.

RIDGEN: Oh, noo, no, no. I’m used to that. It’s what I do. I get the hard time. That’s okay.

[Cars driving past]

[Theme music plays]

ANGELINE: You are listening to Someone Knows Something from CBC Original Podcasts. In Season 4, David Ridgen continues the work he started nine years ago on the Wayne Greavette case. This is Episode 5: Jr.

[Theme music continues]

RIDGEN: Just say a few words. I just want to make sure I’ve got this audio sorted out here.

DIANE: Hello. David.

[Laughs]

DIANE: I’m happy that you’re here helping us.

[Laughs]

DIANE: I am happy, so happy you're doing this for us.

RIDGEN: Well, I hope… I'm confident that something positive will come out of it.

Any positive that comes of telling Wayne’s story will come from the Greavette’s involvement in the investigation. Getting all the details out. Someone listening now definitely knows something about this case.

DIANE: I realized after Wayne died there was a couple of things, like the truck that pulled into a driveway one night when Wayne and I were there...and uh...

RIDGEN: The more Diane and I go over the days and months leading up to Wayne’s death, the more memories seem to shake loose. Diane says Wayne was exhibiting some paranoid behaviour. Did Wayne know his life was in danger?

DIANE: And my husband was really jumpy there for a little while, you know. Run and check to see who pulled in the driveway. And he seen this truck out there. He used to call me Dino. Dino was my nickname for him and he said, "Dino, come on. Let's go!” because the truck was pulling out and he said, “Let's go.” He says, “Let’s go see who that was” and he grabbed the end of pool cue stick with a hard brass end on it and he grabbed it and we ran out the door. Like, I’m just following him, you know. Thinking, “Oh, ok, let’s see who it is.” And we-- he went burning out the driveway and we made a left and he was bombing up the road to try and catch whoever that was. Well, we musta went the wrong way maybe because we didn't see anybody up there and or whoever it was may have went the other way. So he was very uptight wanting to know who that was who pulled up that driveway.

RIDGEN: Close to the time of Wayne’s murder, Diane says she received a phone call from a person who said they worked for Bell Telephone. Wayne’s reaction to the call seems out of place. Diane tells me about it as we drive on the country roads around Moffat.

DIANE: But it's the same as the call from Bell Canada saying that, uh, this is before Wayne died as well, that they had noticed that our company name in the book and, you know, wanted to know exactly what it was we were doing and what we did.

RIDGEN: This is Bell Canada?

DIANE: This is-- the guy said he was from Bell Canada and wanted to know what it was we did and I was explaining that we re-built and service packaging machinery and built conveyor and then Wayne walked in when I was talking away on the phone and he got really pissed off. And he told me to get off the phone, so I did. I got off the phone and he was yelling at me. "Just don't tell everything about our business and everything else". Like I forget exactly all his words but he was really mad.

RIDGEN: Wayne was really mad at you for telling people about the business? And this is when you were in the farmhouse?

DIANE: Yeah, at the farmhouse. Somebody calls and they wanna know what you do in business, well, you know, you don't think twice about telling them what you do. I mean, to be honest, I thought it was strange at first getting the call from Bell Canada. Thinking that, you know, what would make them be going through and pick out our number to call.

[Music]

DIANE: Remember I was telling you that Justin got this call and it was from a trucker and the trucker was gonna send him a t-shirt.

RIDGEN: When was that? Was that before the bombing?

DIANE: Before the bombing, yeah.

RIDGEN: According to Diane, in the weeks prior to when Wayne was murdered, Justin had taken a call at the farm, from a person saying they worked for a trucking company. The person wanted the Greavette’s new address and in return, according to the caller, they would receive free t-shirts.

DIANE: Justin started to give it to them and then I said, “No. Like, you don't even know who they are” So he didn't give it all.

RIDGEN: Other examples of Wayne’s odd behaviour occur. Wayne leaves the farm to pick up a horse in another town. He plans to ride it back. When he leaves the farm he is in a great mood, Diane says, but when he returns Wayne is completely changed, as if something dreadful has happened on the road and he is inconsolable.

[Phone dialling and ringing]

DIANE: Hi there.

RIDGEN: Hi Diane. It’s David.

RIDGEN: All these stories about Wayne’s behaviour and the phone calls can seem odd in retrospect. Everything seems weird in the wake of a flashlight bomb. And in December 2017, I received a call from Diane about another troubling call she says she received just weeks before.

DIANE: Sorry about that. You know what, I just sometimes get a little bit spooked. Um, you know, when we're doing stuff and everything. And then all of a sudden that call just came out of the blue and the way that the guy talked and everything. It just spooked me.

RIDGEN: So tell me about-- tell me about it.

DIANE: Well, the phone rang, and like, I don't have-- ‘cause I very seldom use my regular phone. So I picked it up, and the guy's voice was real deep and, you know, and he says, uh, “Is this Diane Greavette?” And I said yes. And that’s what he said, “I'm calling from Bell.” And he said, “You're entitled to get free movies”, or whatever. And that's how the conversation-- I didn't keep it long because I just said to him, “No.” I said, you know what, “If I'm interested I'll just call Bell direct.” And then I hung up from the guy, but, just, even answering the phone and talking to the guy, it spooked me right then, because the guy's like, “Is this-- you know, I can't even say it, but his voice was real deep and, it just was not a Bell rep.” Like a Bell rep is…

RIDGEN: Bell is one of Canada’s largest phone, cable and internet service providers so on its face, a call like this isn’t all that strange.

DIANE: And so, for a couple of days went by and, you know, and you and I are chatting about different stuff and everything. And I just thought, “Jeez, I just wonder”, you know. So I decided to call Bell. And so I was talking to Bell and I told her what had happened. So she put me on hold for a couple of minutes and then she came back, she said “No Diane, it wasn't us who called you.”

[Music]

DIANE: And then I just thought to mention it to you because like, it just was unusual and just the way the guy spoke and everything. And I thought, like, you're digging right deep into things and, you know. ‘Cause I always remember that Bell call that came before Wayne passed away, and then it was right after that when Justin got the phone call from the trucking company and then it wasn't a week or two later that everything happened.

[Music]

DIANE: So it just caught me weird that this person was calling from Bell. And saying that I was gonna get free movies and stuff like that. And it just brought me back to that time when Bell called D&L.

RIDGEN: Did this person or any other person ever call again talking about this?

DIANE: No. It just happened all so quick. It just spooked me a little. That's all.

[Music]

RIDGEN: Police have been told about this new 2017 call. And back in 1996, whether Wayne was just being careful about his privacy or something more is hard to know.

DANNY SCHELTGEN: Wayne Greavette was a good personal friend of mine; very small, timid, shy person. Outgoing, energetic. He had a motorcycle and a boat and, you know, he tried to enjoy his life.

RIDGEN: Danny Scheltgen, a former colleague and associate of Wayne’s, says he spoke to Wayne on the morning he was killed. Was Wayne acting paranoid then?

DANNY: So I got to know the family quite well. They were very good friends of mine.

RIDGEN: Scheltgen is sitting in his living room on a lawn chair, striped shirt, short hair graying at the temples, and glasses propped on top of his head. And he’s smoking a cigarette.

DANNY: Like I say, I was talking to him an hour before it happened, and I still had equipment over at the farm that I had to pick up after he was killed. And t was a pretty bad scene.

RIDGEN: So when you called him on that day Danny, did you notice anything different about the way he was talking?

DANNY: Not at all. We actually-- he even made jokes that morning. I can’t remember the joke that he told me, but it was pretty funny, and my boss laughed about it too. But I had called him about a piece of equipment. It was a cap sorter, that he was rebuilding for us. It was supposed to be ready, and it wasn’t delivered yet. So I called him, and he said it would be ready the next day.

RIDGEN: So tell me a little about the beverage and packaging business back in the 90s in Ontario at least or in Canada.

DANNY: Well, I started back in the ‘80s in the beverage industry with Original New York Seltzer. And that’s where I met Wayne Greavette because I was purchasing equipment from SERGE Beverage Equipment. SERGE was the largest food and beverage equipment company in Canada, and they serviced the United States and Canada. So they were quite a large operation. They built Aberfoyle Springs, which is now Nestle’s Water Canada, which is the largest spring water manufacturer, I believe, in Canada. They also built pretty well every other bottling and beverage company in Ontario and quite a few of them in The United States. And I always dealt directly with Wayne and Wayne worked with me-- his nickname was Wiener, but he worked with me finding me employment any time I was out of work, he wanted to get me into a plant where I could buy his equipment.

RIDGEN: So, tell me what you’ve been thinking about the case, you know, since it happened.

DANNY: I didn’t know what to think at first. You know, all these allegations and rumours about Weiner or Wayne, you know, to me, they were unfounded.

RIDGEN: Shortly after Wayne’s murder, some news articles came out suggesting that his killing was somehow linked to his alleged involvement with a motorcycle gang. But this notion was quickly discounted by police.

DANNY: It was media hype saying he was involved in drugs, hanging out with The Motorcycle Club and what have you. I didn’t know Wayne to be that way. I’d been to his place many times; I’d known him for many, many, years. I got to know his wife personally, his kids personally. So I was totally shocked with what happened. But I also knew that there were other things that had happened. I call it a jealousy rival. Ed Sr. had a son named Ed Jr., and Ed Jr. was basically a few years younger than Wayne. Wayne would have been, I think around 40, and Ed Jr. would have been in his late 20s or early 30s. And Wayne Greavette was ordered by his dad, Ed Sr., which was Wayne’s boss, to throw Ed Jr., out of the shop. And, uh, who do I suspect? I always thought that it was a paid hit, but by whom, I didn’t know.

RIDGEN: Danny Scheltgen says he bought SERGE from Ed Galick Sr. and that he also worked with Ed Jr.

DANNY: So I joined forces with Ed Jr. Within a year, I had purchased his dad’s company, SERGE Beverage Equipment and all their assets. So I just couldn’t win. No matter what I did, somebody was out to get me out of the business. I found out that my employees went into cahoots with Ed Sr and tried to steal the company back and take over and open up their own business. I went to the police. I explained to them all that was going on, and I told them. I says, you know, this guy-- I heard rumors that people have died around him. There’s people that have died, suspiciously, that have known Ed Sr through their business years.

RIDGEN: Here, Danny is referring to Wayne’s murder. And also that of Paul Henttonen. Henttonen, who also worked in the industry, was stabbed to death in May 2002. Here, it’s important to remember that Ed Galick Senior has denied any involvement in the murder of Wayne Greavette.

DANNY: It was fairly suspicious to me. I was fairly nervous, you know, and I went to the OPP and did an interview with me, and I explained to them my suspicions and they said, “Well, why don’t you get away from this guy?”

RIDGEN: Danny says that the business relationship he had with Ed Jr. at the time became strained.

DANNY: We owned it together as a company, D&E. I was the sole owner, Ed Jr-- I used him to manage the company and manage the business. He knew the business very well, and he recommended that I move into this building. And I did that. And when I did that, everything was fine. I hear a few weeks later, I’m working down at Michigan doing an installation for a fella, that the OPP are looking for me because, uh, there was a flashlight planted in the building. And they cordoned off the building, and they did their investigation. It was just a flashlight, but it was suspiciously left.

RIDGEN: I don’t have any information about this supposed additional flashlight from the OPP.

When you say the flashlight was left suspiciously, what does that mean?

DANNY: Well, that’s all the police ever told me. I never seen it. I don’t know anything. I really don't. I was never went back to that shop after I was locked out by the landlord. But it's too scary when, when they're saying it was a suspicious flashlight. So there had to be a reason for it being suspicious. They wouldn't go into any detail. Oh, my phone.

[Phone rings]

DANNY: Hello? Hello?

[Indistinct voice on phone]

DANNY: Not bad, what's up? Uh, I actually got the interview going on here, uh, yeah. Okay, oh! Alright. Okay. That's Ed Jr. [Laughing] What a coincidence, eh? He’s at the shop.

RIDGEN: That was Ed Jr?

DANNY: Yeah. Isn't that a coincidence? [Laughs] Yeah, he said give him a call when he's done.

RIDGEN: Ed Jr calls Danny during our interview. A coincidence, but from the call it’s clear that Ed Jr knows I am interviewing Danny. After Danny hangs up, we leave the suspicious flashlight incident on the backburner. Police have never said that the incident lead them anywhere on the Greavette investigation.

DANNY: Cash is nothing in this business. $5,000 doesn’t mean nothing, but $5,000 can get a person killed. Now my son, who’s got a bad record, was dating one of the Hells Angels’ daughters in London Ontario and I’m still friends with this guy. This guy knew The Outlaws were paid to do the hit. That’s all I know. And, you know, even saying that, it’s like, I would have to reveal this former Outlaws and Hells Angel biker, who’s semi-retired. He’s a good fell and his daughter’s already gone and, you know, there’s a lot of sentiment there. But, uh, anybody could have paid that money. It could have been an angry person who bought a bunch of equipment and lost their business. It could have been-- and all these it-could-have-beens, but I always thought it was such a rivalry between Wayne Greavette, Ed Jr and Ed Sr.

RIDGEN: Speculations about Wayne’s murder have covered a lot of ground, from rip-offs, to other women, and now to biker gangs. I've even been told by a credible source that Wayne was some kind of informant and that his killing was related to organized crime, but they won't go on record or provide their sources. And a former OPP officer has told me that, to the best of his knowledge, Wayne never helped police in any investigations. Scheltgen’s assertion about hearing Wayne’s murder was a paid Outlaw hit seems significant in my ears, but it’s difficult to get information directly from bikers, especially the 1% variety. Detective Paul Johnson for one doesn’t buy the biker connection.

PAUL JOHNSON: One of the neighbours had been interviewed by the radio or some newspaper back, like, around the time of the explosion, and they had said that there was a lot of motorcycles in and out, you know, out of this barbeque, so the newspaper made the connection, that it must be biker-related.

RIDGEN: Oh I see. Just ‘cause the guy rode a motorbike.

PAUL: Yeah.

RIDGEN: Okay.

In a 1999 book Canadian reporter and biker specialist Yves Lavigne also connected Wayne’s death to bikers. The author claimed that Wayne was killed because he “did not want to become an outlaw biker” at a local club. But Diane says she never saw anything that indicated Wayne could be a one percenter or part of a violent biker club.

DIANE: You know, that they had said about Wayne and everything being involved with the bikers and all of this stuff, you think, I just think the press sometimes, they just made life hell. I guess it's all about selling a story or getting the publicity from the story and not thinking about the people that are left behind.

RIDGEN: Again, OPP Detective Paul Johnson says their research has been exhaustive and that there is no biker connection.

PAUL: We flogged it like a dead horse

RIDGEN: ‘Cause it’s just a pro job right? Like, the cutting out the UPC code, all that stuff, the use of explosives. When you say it’s flogged, I mean, you must-- you must have some contact within the network, right? You actually talk to the bikers and stuff?

PAUL: Yeah, like, there was like huge amount of time and effort with special units put into looking down any traditional organized crime connection.

RIDGEN: I reach out to Peter Edwards, a Toronto Star reporter and the author of over a dozen books on topics from bikers to organized crime to get his take. Edwards has graying hair, navy shirt with a navy coat with a reporter’s pad spilling out of his pocket.

PETER EDWARDS: The death of Wayne Greavette was a big news story at the time so average people were talking about it definitely bikers would have been. It was in the news, um, I don’t see a major biker club connection. If someone had passed through a biker club and done it, that’s possible. But I really doubt that this was anything organized by a biker club. I know several people who were in the Satan’s Choice at that time and they’re extremely proud that they weren’t subtle. One of the worse things you could call them is a conniver. And this is a-- this is a sneaky way of doing a crime and kind of cowardly way. They liked to be right up in your face, “This is who I am.” Like, they would be in your face. You’d see them. They pride themselves on letting you know who’s doing it and why.

RIDGEN: Was Wayne actually a member of a biker gang?

PETER: I don’t know of him being a member of a biker club. I’m pretty much positive he wasn’t a member of a one percent club. A one percent club is one of the heavy-duty clubs. So you’re talking Hells Angels, Outlaws, Bandidos, the bigger clubs. He wasn’t in anything like that. And the Satan’s Choice were a one percenter club. I just don’t see it as a Satan’s Choice type of thing.

RIDGEN: Outlaws either?

PETER: Well, unless someone was actually hired to do it. But just the old bikers I know, a big part of their mindset is “This is who I am. Deal with me.” The idea of sneaking around is almost an admission that there’s something wrong with you. That’s why they wear the huge patches on their backs. They wear identification saying who they are. Rather than sneak around and deny who they are, they scream it from a block away. If you want to get an outlaw biker upset, say he’s not in the club. If you say he’s in the club-- Yeah, I’ve never had a Hells Angel get upset with me for saying he’s a Hells Angel. If I said they weren’t a Hells Angel, that they’re a former Hells Angel, they would get upset.

RIDGEN: So you think rather than blow Wayne up from afar or with an indiscriminate bombing, they would go to the door.

PETER: Go to the door, drag him out, beat him up. And maybe put him in a lake. Like, it would be-- it’s not a complicated process and it would be easy enough to do and bikers, the ones I know, they have absolutely nothing against dealing with someone they consider an enemy. But they have wives and children and they don’t like the idea of dragging what they call civilians in. Like, they like to keep it sort of person to person. You don’t get that many bystanders shot at outlaw biker things. Generally they’re close up. You don’t even get rifles used that much. Generally it’s a pistol, close-range. I can’t think of anything similar at all from the Satan’s Choice, Henchmen, Vagabonds, all the clubs that were big back then. I can’t think of anything like that. Maybe someone passed through one of those clubs. A lot of people passed through them. Maybe someone had passed through them, who did do that sort of thing. Like, there was a really fluid membership. This sort of idea that you’re in a club and you’re in it for life is just not true. All sorts of people leave clubs and you can leave a club and leave it alive. It’s also something that would catch the eye of people who later turned informant. You know, a new guy was in the area, he was good with explosives. A guy got blown up and then he left. That’s something that would be told to police. There were two-- two people who went on to get a fair bit of money from police who had been in the Satan’s Choice as informers. And I really, really doubt that they would’ve passed up on the chance to make money on this. This would’ve been very lucrative for them and it would’ve been something that definitely would’ve attracted police attention.

RIDGEN: So could bikers have been ordered by somebody to have done this, do you think?

PETER: Bikers are really hard to order. Like, the reason they’re bikers is they don’t like to be ordered.

RIDGEN: Tell me about organized crime and how organized crime may relate to the case or not, because I mean they’re involved in the water industry. They’re involved in food and beverage.

PETER: With organized crime, you would get pointed to someone who could do the job. A lot of times someone who’s getting released from jail, someone who someone knows who’s trying to work his way up. Maybe someone who’s trying to get into the drug trade a little more. And so what an organized crime person could do would be refer you to someone who’d do it and take a commission for that.

RIDGEN: But the organized crime group would not have ordered this, you don’t think?

PETER: I just don’t know. I don’t think it passes the smell test for bikers. It just doesn’t seem the way they’d do it. Other groups-- I mean organized crime is a very, very broad thing. So possibly.

There was a time when there were a lot of businesses being bombed, like in Hamilton in the 70s. Well, in Woodbridge we’re still getting that. I mean we get a-- Cafe Corretto had their wall blown out, so it’s not that they stopped doing it. The bomb in the mail is-- I don’t know of anyone who did crimes that way. Like, that’s an unusual way of doing it. There were people who blew up houses and businesses. But not through the mail. The mail is a different thing. And then the mail adds a real sociopathic element that even these guys, a lot of them, would turn up their noses at. Plus, I mean, you can hire someone to plant a bomb at a business or under a car or blow up someone’s porch. You don’t have to-- it doesn’t cost that much and you’ll get it done. So why do this extra?

RIDGEN: And especially since you’re doing it in a way that no one else will know that you did it. I mean, you’re not going to benefit from the fear that you generate from it, you know? It’s only for the perpetrator’s sole satisfaction.

PETER: Yeah. It sort of strikes me as a loner kind of way-- and not a loner as in the bike club Loners, but just as a loner personality thing, you know, it’s something someone plots and does by themselves. If you’re trying to do it from such a distance, you’re dragging in another person if you’re hiring someone to do it for you. And it’s not that complicated. I mean, this isn’t rocket science. There is a cowardly element to it too. Anyone who had access to the explosives with a minor knowledge of them and no conscience. If this is ever solved, my feeling is that it’ll be solved through water, through the bottled water business. There are all sorts of reputable people in it. It’s also a pretty easy business to be a scammer in. All you need is a tap and a hose and a couple bottles and you’ve got yourself a business.

RIDGEN: Tips and information have started coming in to our SKS inbox. One message was from a man who says he was a former intelligence officer with CSIS, The Canadian Security Intelligence Service, which is the Canadian equivalent of the CIA or MI6. Chris Moore told me of a memory SKS triggered in him about seeing a gruesome crime scene photo during a training program in the Spring of 2010.

CHRIS MOORE: And it kind of stuck in my mind. It was such a horrific image. I could not get it out. And I didn't know any names. I didn't know who it was. I-- we weren't given that sort of information. But when I heard your podcast, I thought 'boy, this sounds so familiar to what I saw.

RIDGEN: Chris is certain that the photo he saw was of Wayne Greavette.

And then so the shot of Wayne on the couch. Wayne's remains on that pink couch--

CHRIS: Yes!

RIDGEN: ..is what you remember?

CHRIS: Yes! Oh! Very, very vividly. Cause they-- it wasn't set up in any way. They just showed it. I couldn't figure out what we were looking at cause we were in-- it was like a-- kind of like an auditorium with a big screen. So it was like an large, large image. And couldn't make out what it was at first. And it was so awful. And so it really suck in my mind.

RIDGEN: So how did you come to see the crime scene photos?

CHRIS: I was an intelligence officer with CSIS and so we were in our training program. It's pretty in-depth. It's about six months long. And at the end of it a couple of OPP officers who are working on some sort of inter agency gang and guns unit had come in and kind of briefed us on explosive devices, weapons, that sort of thing. And they kinda gave us a slideshow of pipe bombs, IEDs. Things like that that they had sort of taken from gangs they had been investigating. Things they had come across and they were sort of running down how they're made, what goes into them. And they were showing some crime scene photos also at the same time.

RIDGEN: And at the time you were not told Wayne Greavette’s name or any circumstances?

CHRIS: No. Nothing at all. Other than-- well, we weren't given any name. I didn't know when it happened. Like this was-- this was April of 2010 that I was in the program.

RIDGEN: Okay.

CHRIS: So I had no idea how long ago it happened. I sort of thought it was recent. I thought it happened just before that. And all we were told was that it was something to do with a biker gang. We were led to believe, and I don't remember the exact wording so I can't be 100% certain of it, but I was led to believe that they had arrested someone. They knew who it was.

RIDGEN: And so the person leading the workshop was an OPP officer?

CHRIS: Yes. I believe they were two of them and they were OPP officers, but they were part of a inter agency task force. They worked it other-- I would imagine like RCMP, other agencies on some kind of gangs and guns thing.

RIDGEN: You don't remember the names of the officers?

CHRIS: I don't at all. Sorry. Yeah. That was-- it was like a one-day thing where they showed this stuff and then another day where they came and showed weapons, like guns. And that was it.

RIDGEN: Did you get the feeling that they were using the photograph as an example of what could happen if somebody opens an IED? Or do you get the feeling it was an example of a gang violence hit?

CHRIS: Yes, I definitely had the feeling it was an example of a gang violence thing. I definitely had that feeling of it.

RIDGEN: Did they mention anything about which particular gang or biker gang or mob group or whatever may have been involved?

CHRIS: No names of any gangs. I don't remember any mention of any particular group. You know, it's funny. I've been thinking about this the last for the last week anyway since I listened to your podcast. I've been think about “Why did they show us that photo?” ‘Cause everything else had been photos of destroyed cars maybe, and then actually devices. You know, here's what detcord looks like, here's what TNT looks like. You know, that kind of stuff. So I don't-- I don't actually know why they showed it.

RIDGEN: Police have consistently said almost from the beginning that Wayne’s murder had nothing to do with bikers. And yet, according to Chris, the OPP instructors were using the photo of Wayne after the flashlight exploded as an example of a biker war going on at the time. I’m not sure what to make of that information. Police trainers may have used the photo as a general example of a mail bomb or they might have known more. This would have been less than six months after my original TV documentary aired about the Greavette case in 2009. I’m going to continue to pursue this angle of the investigation.

Thanks very much Chris.

CHRIS: You bet.

RIDGEN: Okay.

CHRIS: Not a problem. Okay. Thank you. Bye.

RIDGEN: Bye.

But for now, there’s one last person that we need to talk to.

[Crickets chirping and footsteps]

VOICE 1: On March 20^th…

VOICE 2: Run!

[Heavy breathing and running]

VOICE 1: ..only one movie experience this year will make you afraid to breathe.

VOICE 3: You won’t survive.

VOICE 2: We have to try.

VOICE 1: A Quiet Place: Part II. In theatres March 20^th. Tickets on sale now.

ED JR: Hello, my name is Ed Jr. I'm the son of Edward Sr, the owner of SERGE packaging equipment.

RIDGEN: I finally connect with Ed Galick Jr. for a more thorough interview. I am asking the questions from Ontario, while he’s being filmed in BC. He’s a larger framed guy, with blue grey eyes in yellow t-shirt and jeans, sitting on a worn leather couch next to a lit fireplace.

ED JR: Every time there was a partnership with my father there seemed to be a bad breakup, including myself.

RIDGEN: So we'll get into that in a little bit if you don't mind. I just wanted to first, tell me as honest as you can about your personal relationship with him and what you knew of Wayne.

ED JR: Honestly, my personal relationship with Wayne was always tenuous. I mean, I was the son of the owner and Wayne was, I would suspect and, I mean, it's well known, Wayne was my dad's buddy. From-- I guess Wayne started working for my dad when he was 18 at 7-UP and from what I gather Wayne was involved in some drugs and stuff like that. It was like weed and drinking. It was a pretty hard running crew I would think back in the days of 7-UP and, um, Wayne was the guy that supplied the dope from what I understand. I mean, don't get me wrong, he worked his ass off and everybody worked hard back then, but that was the main association but Wayne would also do what my dad told him to do. If he said “Be an asshole”, Wayne would be an asshole. If he said, “Steal that,” he'd steal that. Wayne was my dad's Joe boy. I would almost suggest that Wayne was my dad's son, so to speak, and I think that's what my dad looked at him as. More so than me because I really did not grow up a lot with my father. Basically what my dad wanted done, Wayne would do. They were the best of friends, the closest of friends. They drank together. They partied together. It was just a really good, hard drinkin' crew that worked really hard and I gotta tell ya built some good bottling lines too so I don't wanna make it all sound bad.

RIDGEN: The story that I heard-- there was a story that Wayne once was asked to throw you out of the plant or something. Did that happen?

ED JR: You know what? I don't quite remember. I didn't have a lot of dealings with Wayne. I mean, Wayne was my boss. I was, you know, I was young, 17, 18 and yeah. I mean, I got fired a few times from SERGE ‘cause I was a mouthy person. And I knew my job and it was my dad's business. I probably thought, you know, a little bit more than I should’ve back then. I don't ever recall Wayne actually throwing me out of the plant. He's such a small individual and I was a big bruisin' hockey player back there. I wouldn't have gone. I'll tell ya straight up. The only person that would ever-- that I ever feared was my father. I've never feared Wayne. To me, he was just-- he was my boss and I had to do what he said ‘cause if I didn't do what he said it'd be my paycheque. My father would most definitely take his side, not mine, regardless. I don't recall ever being thrown out. I definitely was thrown into a situation with Wayne through my father. That's for sure but I don't recall being thrown out. But I'm gonna tell you something, with Wayne, it was never with Wayne. I mean, working for Ed Sr., you're never in charge and everybody knew that. He's in charge and that's just the way it is.

RIDGEN: So tell me about your dad then. Tell me about your relationship with your dad and how over the years and what it's like now.

ED JR: My situation with my father now is why I live out here. I basically don't want anything to do with him. I had a bad business situation with him. He's just money. Basically if he makes money off you no matter who you are that's just-- that’s all he believes in. That’s all he wants. I mean, I see my father trying to destroy my life when I'm a single dad with two kids. How ruthless he was over-- I think it was like 7/8 grand. It just blew me away what he would do to his own son and his grandchildren over 7/8 thousand dollars on a business deal.

RIDGEN: Ed Jr claims that when their business relationship ended, things got ugly with his dad.

ED JR: I just couldn't believe-- I've never seen that side of him before. I've never seen him that angry. I just couldn't believe that guy. I mean, that was like someone I've never seen before. It blew me away at his age that kinda reaction that happened in that plant that day. Like, he basically told me he would do the same. He'd kill me and I asked him saying, “Go ahead, take your best shot. This doesn't end here.” I've never seen him that angry.

RIDGEN: Just tell me a little bit about what your sort of theories of the murder of Wayne Greavette are because first of all the police must have come to talk to you.

ED JR: Yeah, they did. They came to my office. I was in Guelph at the time. They had come and ask me some questions. And, uh, basically they wanted hair samples and that type and I basically flat out told them "If you guys are looking at me you guys are way off base" because I really had nothing to do with SERGE, Wayne-- I didn't even know what they were doing. I knew that Wayne moved on but I didn’t even know where. I had so little contact with that part of my life. I was surprised with the Wayne thing but, you know, Wayne had a lot of history with drugs. When I was younger, I remember he had a guy that was a big coke dealer. We used to go visit, mushrooms all that kinda stuff and that gentleman was busted just outside of Georgetown. So he was a dealer. Whether or not he had more connections and that, I'm not really sure.

RIDGEN: So when the police came to talk to you, did they talk to you for a long time? Did they do a polygraph with you? Did they ask you if you killed Wayne? Like, how did they-- what did they do with you?

ED JR: They just came in and asked me certain questions: where I was, what I was doing, that type of thing. They came into my office and they asked me for hair samples. I told them no. Polygraph never came up. The first time I heard about the polygraph was my dad bragging about how he took one. I heard that through a third party. What else was there? Honestly ,Dave, it was such a nothing thing to me that it was more of a gossip. More of a soap opera thing to us. You know, thinking “Wow, we couldn't believe something like that could've happened”, but, you know, honestly, Wayne did have a habit of pissing a lot of people off and he would tell you, if you owed him money, he would tell you to go screw yourself. So we were hoping, we're not hoping, but we're assuming that he pissed the wrong people off. And there were a lot of Italians he was dealing with at the time. And he was in that water business, which I think at the time was a little shady.

RIDGEN: How many times did they come and talk to you and for how long, the police?

ED JR: They came and talked to me for it was, I believe it was one time, and maybe twice. I mean, I may have talked to police regarding this for 10 minutes. That's it. I was-- they just never came back.

RIDGEN: 10 minutes?

ED JR: That’s, I, you know what, Dave, that’s-- obviously when something like that happens, if you had an interview like this it would be something that I would remember and believe me it was just-- I was so busy trying to build my company. Basically they came in, I answered some questions, I bet you I never talked to them for more than 10 minutes and they never came back. I basically told them I said, “Listen, if you're looking at me you guys are way off base and I prefer you not bother me anymore” and they never bothered me again.

RIDGEN: And when was the last time you had seen Wayne? Like, he died December 12, '96.

ED JR: The last time I would've seen Wayne would've been '93, I think. I think in '92, I think is when my father took me out of college to come replace him at SERGE. He came up to Confederation College, told me Wayne was ruining his business and asked me to come back and run it. Which I did and actually he left me there with Wayne. Wayne and Diane. I think Diane departed. I think we worked together for six months or so, and that was pretty much the last time I seen him because I didn't last too much longer after that myself. My father-- my father started playing the games on me that he was playing on Wayne. He never lived, fulfilled up to his promises, let's put it that way. I think after the second year in '94 I was done with my father as well. I knew Wayne had had his own business at the time.

RIDGEN: Tell me about the other flashlight and how it came to pass that one was at that other shop.

ED JR: Again, my-- Dave, my information about that other flashlight came from Danny. I got a phone call. Danny was in Ontario at the time. You have to understand, we closed up that other business basically due to what my father had done to us, and he gave us no choice. And for some reason Danny had called me up said, you know what, he got called in by the OPP and somebody left a flashlight. A very similar sort of thing at our plant, which was right around the corner from my dad's plant. That quite frankly was really weird. It was really different. I-- I would never suspected to see something like that and I don't know who would even play a joke like that. But that, I couldn't see my father doing something like that. Maybe drunk, yes. But he does-- I don't know who he hangs around with. I don't know his character that way.

RIDGEN: I went to speak to your dad-- I went with Justin and Danielle actually. And Alfrun was there. This was in the summer. I guess you haven't talked to him, eh?

ED JR: Ah no. I haven't talked to him-- You know, I hate to say this but I don't expect to ever talk to him again, to tell you the truth. I don't even want my children near him. I don't want my children near any part of that family.

[Music]

RIDGEN: I paraphrase for Ed Jr. the question that was put to his father about who could have done this to Wayne. "Who do you think would've had the smarts to pull off killing Wayne Greavette?"

You know what the first word out of his mouth was?

ED JR: Me?

RIDGEN: Eddie Junior.

ED JR: No way! Well, there you go. Then, you know what, it's amazing that someone would say like that to me if you’ve heard of anything else he's talked about me, that's kinda strange. So it's basically an Ed Sr., Ed Jr. thing. Well, Dave I'm gonna tell you something I've never heard my father point a finger anymore-- in my life I've never heard him say anything like that towards anybody but for him to say that to me...

RIDGEN: He kinda quickly qualified it because I asked him directly “Are you saying--” I said, “Wait a minute. Are you saying that your son had--" and he said "No, no, no, no. He-- I mean, he would be smart enough to do it. He's a smart guy.”

[Laughs]

ED JR: Well then, buddy, I'm gonna tell you something, hearing something like that I am utterly amazed because the only difficulties that I had with Wayne were through my father. And quite frankly, at that-- I mean, I don't have bad blood in my system. I mean, I have quite a bit of animosity towards my father as you can see, but, um, just based on what he's done to my family and my sons and how he's interfered in me raising my children overtime but wow. [Laughing] Wow. That's amazing. You blew me away. Well, that's interesting Dave. It's funny that you've just blown me away Dave because like I said I never had any real problems with Wayne or Diane. I was basically the tool to get rid of Wayne and Diane. You just, you know, what to hear something like that come out of somebody's mouth that knows damn well that I wouldn't even have the smarts to do something like that-- I've never been a violent or been involved in any of that type-- wouldn't even know how to be involved for someone to say... You just blew me away, Dave. You just floored me. I know my father's pissed off at me because, you know, basically I stood up to him finally in my life. I don't think that went over well with him. I've always bent. I've always bent. My father, whatever he would say I would bend. Last year, or the year before in that plant I stood up and, you know what, if it hadn't been my better judgment for my kids I probably would’ve beat the living crap out of the guy for what he was doing to us. Cause he just came in and pushed his way into the plant, you know, we rented from him and he was just ignorant. He was an ignorant person. I just could not believe that this person would do this over money to his own son. And not even that. I mean, I have two young sons that I raised by myself so that was my living. My father took my living away from me in one day. So and I would say this on camera in case it even happens, I hope not. If someone I'd want to blow up, that'd be the guy. [Laughs] That would be the individual.

[Music]

ED JR: He had his inner circle and I'm his son. He would spend more time with the Waynes of the world than with his own family but that's the way he is now. I don't know. I mean, I partied with Wayne. Honestly, I think even Diane will tell you, I think I tried to contact Wayne to do business with him when I was with EDJ, which was my company then. I’ve never had-- I mean, I don’t know how to say it. I mean, I never had a financial linking to Wayne. The only problems I had with SERGE was basically my father. He'd promise you something, money, and he'd never give it to ya. But honest to God, I could not see my father risking his whole life to kill somebody. He seems a lot smarter to me than that.

RIDGEN: So I got one question about the letter that came with the flashlight in Wayne's package there. Did, you know, what the letter said?

ED JR: I know what the rumour had said. I can tell you that. From what I understood, I heard, and what I got told was “May this be the last flashlight you'll ever need.” That's what was told to me. Other than that I don't know. I also heard that his son went to open it first or tried to get it running and that he had tooken it away from him because he couldn't get it to go on. That's the only things that I've heard. That's all.

RIDGEN: Right, well the letter has been published, it’s public. It’s public domain, so you can access it

ED JR: Oh, I don’t even. I couldn't even tell you what it said. What did it say?

RIDGEN: Well, it says something like that. It says “May you never have to buy another flashlight.”

ED JR: Right.

RIDGEN: And it names Leesa and Joe in there.

ED JR: Who? Joe?

RIDGEN: Leesa is the secretary at SERGE.

ED JR: Right, yeah. And Joe? Old Joe?

RIDGEN: Joe Zottich would've been the delivery guy, right?

ED JR: Wow. It named them?

RIDGEN: Yeah, they're named in there.

ED JR: Wow. I have no idea what they're associated. I mean, it sorta, if I was looking at my dad, I don't know why he would name him. ‘Cause I don't even think they were-- well Leesa was at SERGE at the time, that’s correct yeah. But old Joe?

RIDGEN: Joe, Joe, Giuseppe I think.

ED JR: Yeah, I know who Joe is. I remember him. He used to live in a trailer at a game farm or something like that. They were like all tight. He was just his go boy. His, you know, his “go do this” boy.

RIDGEN: I just wonder why the letter would have been written in the first place? Why would the bomb be sent in the first place? Why not just run him over or shoot him or beat him up and kill him that way? Like, why a bomb? What kinda person you think sends a flashlight, this kinda creepy…?

ED JR: What kinda person sends a flashlight from what I understand came out of Acton. Is that correct? Wasn't it delivered from the Acton mail postal service or something?

RIDGEN: It came through Acton...

ED JR: Ah, ok. I heard it was mailed out of Acton, which made me thought about my father but then I thought, you know what? That's just too-- too close for comfort there.

RIDGEN: I'll tell you. I think the family would be relieved to hear you say similarly to what your dad said, just the kind of…

ED JR: Oh, I'm not gonna say that. To me I don't need to say something that is just so obvious but what I will tell them is that I never ever wished their family or Wayne harm or anybody dead in my life. Even to the extent of my father's treated me and the way he's done me in my life, I don't even wish him dead. I'm incapable of wishing anybody dead. So yes, no I did not have anything to do with the murder of Wayne Greavette, and you know what, quite frankly I'm quite surprised that nobody's found out what's gone on yet. It blows me away that in this country that we can't find out who did this.

RIDGEN: You're convinced that it came from within the industry then?

ED JR: Oh, most definitely. I believe that. I do believe that his death was a result of a bad deal within the industry. Of maybe somebody putting down a large down payment on a-- on a packaging job. It could've been their life savings and basically it didn't come to fruition. Which is why I said, if you could get a look at their invoicing and who they-- ‘cause in our business if you did a million dollar job, you'd get $500,000 dollars up front to do it. And there's a lot of mom and pops out there, people that sunk all their money into this new product and if you took that money and it didn't pan out, that person's broke. Do you understand? You take somebody's savings and that could cause a lot of people to do a lot of crazy things.

RIDGEN: Ok, so I'll probably be in touch with you again and thanks very much for your time.

I’ve heard from some people that Eddie, at least Eddie of the past, looked like one of the men from the police sketches. I have no way of proving who is in these sketches one way or the other, without someone coming forward with personal knowledge. I’ve also heard about other acquaintances who look like one of the men seen at the Acton Post Office, asking for Wayne’s address. I have their names and I continue to seek them, in person, over the phone, and by writing them letters. Eventually, I’m hopeful I can speak with each of these people. To see images of the Greavette case, including the intriguing police sketches of the men from Acton, the letter to Wayne, and other evidence, visit the SKS web site at www.cbc.ca/sks.

DIANE: Do you want to know something? I mean, I just felt so alone out there trying to kind of figure out what the hell happened and who and why somebody would wanna do this to us. And, you know, it's a strange thing, unless you've ever been put in that position.

[Cars driving past]

[Music]

DIANE: I think the kids kinda just realized how much work and energy I put into it over the last 12 years and the hurt that I feel inside that I wasn't able to come up with anything and they felt it was their turn to step up and if we can't get anywhere this time I don't know what's gonna happen. I don't know how much more any of us can take, really. To go through all this again and again and again. I figure someday, maybe, you know, when this could get all settled and we find out and that, I might be able to rest enough and it won't be all about Wayne anymore. It might be about me now and the kids and what's good for me.

[Car door opens]

RIDGEN: And with that, I head back to the farm with Diane and Danielle.

DIANE: Well it still looks as beautiful as ever here eh?

DANIELLE: Yeah it does. Reminds me of horseback riding.

[Turn signal clicking]

DANIELLE: Oh my. So beautiful!

[Birds chirping]

[Music]

DIANE: You figure a pretty short time, we moved in here in June and… he didn't get much time here.

DANIELLE: No. He didn't. Everything from there was just a big gigantic struggle.

[Sniffs]
DIANE: Yeah, it's true eh? We tried to do everything to try and keep onto this place and hold onto it. And. Eh? We worked hours upon hours, the two of us to try and... we tried for four years.

DANIELLE: It was hard.

[Birds chirping]

[Music]

DANIELLE: Just looks so different, you know?

[Music]

[Sniffs]

DIANE: [Sighs] I don't understand any of this but...

DANIELLE: I really wanna go back to the Springs, you know?

DIANE: Let's walk back this way.

[Music]

DIANE: You can hear it. You can hear the water. Hear it?

[Birds chirping]

[Music]

DANIELLE: It's the little things, you know? In the corner there there was tiger lilies, and over there there was huge, huge marigolds. Like, massive marigolds. We used to have these gigantic parties and big outside gatherings and we used to have a big corn roast, and this is what my dad built to have our corn roast. He took the bottom of this and he made this stand and this sat over the fire and we used to take pillowcases full of corn and we'd slap them in with a rope on it.

[Music]

DANIELLE: Back in the day when we used to live here, this was all, like, just fields. It was all just grass. That's all it was. There was so much open space here that you could walk forever.

DIANE: I couldn't even imagine, you know, what we would be doing right now if he was still alive. We'd having everything going, the water... We weren't looking to be big huge bottling people, you know?

[Birds chirping]

[Music]

DANIELLE: It's OK.

[Crying]

DIANE: What a sad story isn't it? Let’s get out of here. It’s depressing.

RIDGEN: Before we part, Danielle tells me she has something else to say.

DANIELLE: I have to wonder if someone is sitting there knowing information that could help us through this turmoil, I have to wonder if they're not feeling guilty that they haven't come forward, because at the end of the day, you know, your conscience will eat away at you. And I think that's important. You know, to do some good out of the information that you know. This is our real life. It is too easy nowadays to-- to pass it off like it’s just a-- a movie. I’m just afraid people will do that and forget why they’re watching it in the first place. Watching it to catch a murderer, a real one, who really killed somebody. In a really horrible way, in front of his family. I don’t want that to be lost in the mix.

[Sniffs]

[Music]

RIDGEN: It’s not lost in the mix. But it’s an impossible story to hear without it feeling like a movie. A thing we can turn off or eat popcorn to. Put yourselves in the shoes of this family and, if anything you’ve heard sounds familiar, or if you think you know something about Wayne Greavette’s murder, now’s the time. Send us an anonymous message at SKS@cbc.ca or call your local police station. I have received some tips that I continue to look into that I’m hopeful I can report on soon.

[Theme music plays]

ANGELINE: You have been listening to Episode 5: Jr. Visit cbc.ca/sks for photos of the Greavette family home and the surrounding property. Someone Knows Something is hosted, written and produced by David Ridgen. The series is mixed by Cesil Fernandes and produced by Chris Oke, Steph Kampf, Amil Delic, Eunice Kim and Executive Producer Arif Noorani. Our theme song is “Higher” by Olenka Krakus.

[Singing]

Olenka Krakus: Baby, oh, baby.

Where have you gone?

[Music]

Olenka Krakus: I’ve been lonely and tired and angry too long.

I’ve been passing my time with the memories of you.

But your image keeps fading whatever the view.

[Music]

Olenka Krakus: Baby, oh, baby.

What have I done?

Turned my eyes from your eyes just stare at the sun.

[Music]

Olenka Krakus: I’ve been burning with shame sine the day that it set.

And I ain’t seen it rising in remendy yet.

[Music]

Olenka Krakus: Baby, oh, baby.

Where shall we go?

In my dreams there’s a mountain and desert below.

Where you cling to my bosom and sing with the choir.

And wait for the sun to rise higher and higher.

[Music]

Olenka Krakus: Where you cling to my bosom and sing with the choir.

And we wait for the sun to rise higher and higher.

[Music]

ANGELINE: Someone Knows Something is a proud part of CBC Original Podcasts. If you’re looking for more great podcasts in other styles and genres, check out Other People’s Problems. Normally, therapy sessions are totally confidential, but Other People’s Problems reveals what people really sound like when they talk about traumatic birth, turbulent marriages, eating disorders and tough childhoods. Subscribe in Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to SKS.

ANNOUNCER: For more CBC original podcasts, go to cbc.ca/originalpodcasts.

TRANSCRIPT: Someone Knows Something - Season 4, EP 5

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