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Finding Cleo - Episode 5

Connie: I’m Connie Walker and this is Missing and Murdered: Finding Cleo, an investigative podcast by CBC News.

[soft music]

Connie: It seemed nearly impossible at times, but we did it. We found Cleo. We know her adoptive name, we know where she lived, we know where she is buried. We’ve talked to her friends, and we’re getting a sense of her life in New Jersey. But we still have questions. Her biological family believes that Cleo was murdered. Picked up by a predator while trying to hitchhike back home to Saskatchewan and killed in Arkansas. Cleo’s friends in New Jersey have told us a bit about her time here, but they won’t tell us what happened to her. We still don’t know how she died. We have one full day left here, and we need to try to get answers from police or from Cleo’s adoptive family. But now that we know for sure that we have found her, we need to tell Cleo’s siblings.

[phone ringing]

Johnny: Hello.

Connie: Hey, is this Johnny?

Johnny: Yeah.

Connie: Hey Johnny, it's Connie calling from CBC.

Johnny: Hey! How are you doing?

Connie: Good, how are you?

Johnny: Good, good.

Connie: What are you up to?

Johnny: Oh, working at the moment.

Connie: Okay, well, actually we're kind of nearby, actually about a couple of hours away. We were wondering if we could come and meet you. We've been looking into some things here and we'd like to just kind of give you an update in person.

Johnny: Yeah, if you want. Where are you guys at?

Connie: So we're two hours away from Lancaster in Mount Laurel, New Jersey.

Johnny: Uh huh.

Connie: Johnny says he can talk to us after he finishes work. So we get in our rental car and head west to Lancaster, Pennsylvania.

Danielle: Can I get you guys anything?

Connie: No we're good, we're good. Yeah, thanks very much.

Connie: When Johnny hears that we have an update for him about Cleo, he asks his friend Danielle if she can be there for our talk. We meet him at her house on a quiet, tree-lined street.

Danielle: Do you want anything, Chief?

Johnny: No, I'm good. Maybe water.

Danielle: Yep.

Connie: We’re sitting on Danielle’s front porch. It’s a mild evening in late spring and the sun is beginning to set. I am a bit nervous because I don’t know how Johnny will take the news that we found Cleo, the girl he said goodbye to when he was 13. The girl he promised to find. The one he’s been looking for for years. And honestly, even though we’ve been working on this investigation for months and have gotten to know him a little bit, it feels weird to be the one telling him about his sister.

Connie: Yeah, we uh, we actually found a gravesite.

Johnny: Oh yeah? That's good.

Connie: Yeah. For someone named Cleo Madonia.

Johnny: Oh, yeah?

Connie: And we weren't sure if that was the right Cleo. But we were able to confirm that that is her gravesite.

Johnny: Is it? Oh yeah. Wow.

Connie: She was adopted into a family in Marlton, New Jersey.

Johnny: But '78? Why take so long... Because I found out in '76. And they told me she died two years prior.

Connie: Yeah. Do you think that you had the dates wrong, maybe?

Johnny: No, I remember it exactly. It was the US's bicentennial, 1976. So that's how I know.

Connie: I’m not sure if he believes we’ve actually found her, so I show him the photos that Jill and Gina gave us.

Connie: That's her photo from grade five. We talked to a couple.

Johnny: Yeah.

Connie: Does that look familiar?

Connie: Yeah, yeah, her smile. Her hair. Yeah, that'd be her. Where was this from? In Saskatchewan?

Connie: No, that's from New Jersey.

Johnny: Oh really? Oh, wow.

Connie: We met a couple, we met this girl standing next to her, and they were friends, and they were friends for grade five, six, seven, and eight, and they said that it was December of grade eight that she died.

Johnny: Yeah. Did they say where?

Connie:They didn't say where, but we did find out it was in Marlton. But we don't know how she died.

Johnny: Yeah. It's better than not knowing nothing. That's awesome. I'm glad you guys found out more than I would know.

Connie: Johnny says it’s awesome and great. But he is so calm. He seems unfazed. I wasn’t sure what to expect. I imagined he might have a different reaction. But then I remember our interview, and the matter of fact way he spoke about memories that had to be painful, and his reaction begins to make sense.

Johnny: You'd think I'd be more emotional. But I'm not because it's like, after all these years. It's good to know. But...So that's her adoptive name, huh?

Connie: Cleo Madonia. Yeah.

Johnny: Wow. That's where she's buried and stuff?

Connie: Yeah, she's buried in a cemetery.

Johnny: Marlton. That's not too far across from Philly, there, is it? Yeah, the smile looks familiar and the eyes, and stuff.

Connie: Does she look like she did when she was a kid?

Johnny: Yes, especially this one here.

Connie: I tell Johnny about meeting Cleo’s friends Jill and Gina. About how they remember Cleo and what they want her siblings to know.

Connie: That's the one thing they wanted to make sure that you guys knew about her was that she-- she smiled a lot and she seemed happy.

Johnny: Oh yes, I remember that too. That's great. It's more than I expected, you know. Friends that remember her, that's even better.

Connie: But she refused to tell us how she died. She said, I don't want to tell you, it's not…

Johnny: You think she'd tell me? I mean, do you have a... I mean, I'd like to know. You say they're willing to talk to us? Well, that's even better.

Connie: I think they'd be really actually excited to talk to you guys, to tell you about Cleo.

Johnny: I'm just, you know, this is awesome.

Connie: Yeah, I'm sure it's a lot to take in.

Johnny: It's like I've been waiting forever. But I'm glad you guys found out. You tell anybody else? My sisters? Or anything?

Connie: No, we just found out.. We really just confirmed last night in New Jersey.

Johnny: It's weird, you'd think I'd be really emotional about it, but I'm just relieved to have a name and pictures.

Connie: It’s getting late. We agree that we will try to call Christine, April, and Mark in the morning. We say goodnight to Johnny, who still seems to be processing this news.

Johnny: It's good to know.

Connie: I'm glad, I'm glad you feel relieved. I'm glad.

Johnny: You know, maybe it'll hit me later on or something, you know.

[soft, solemn music]

Connie: Later that night, Johnny posts the photo we gave him on social media. It's Cleo’s grade five class picture from New Jersey where she’s wearing the bright yellow shirt and she looks happy. He writes: "They found my sister."

Johnny: They found my sister. I’m still trying to take it all in. I remember her smile. I see her smile in all my friends. She was only 13. Hug your children, your sister. Never let them go. Tell them you love them.

Connie: Later, he posts another photo of Cleo. The black and white one from the yearbook taken just a few months before she died. When he writes, Johnny’s real reaction comes out. Expressing all of his emotions about finding Cleo. All of the things he couldn’t say to us in person.

Johnny: It’s been a long journey. This is my sister. 1974 was the last day I saw you. I remember your smile. Telling you I’d find you no matter what. Silly promise to make for a 13-year-old. But the journey doesn’t end here. The question remains: what was your life like? What were your adopted parents like? Why did you have to die so young? I’m afraid to know how you died. I’m afraid of the dark. I used to embrace the darkness. Not sure how I’m going to deal with this sadness. This is going to hurt for a long time.

Connie: You know, all of her siblings talked about wanting to know the truth about Cleo and wanting to find their sister. But the more that we uncover, the more painful it seems to become and I wonder if this is still worth it. Like, if finding the answers is really what they want.

Christine: Well, first of all, I'm happy to know that she's... to know where she is, because all this time, I've never known where she is at all.

Connie: We make a plan for a conference call with the rest of Cleo’s siblings in the morning. But at 10:00 AM, the only person we can reach on the phone is Christine. She’s already talked to Johnny and has had some time to process the news.

Christine: It’s again, that feeling of, I have the piece of my life back from what people tell me. We just trusted people who told us things, right.

Connie: Christine, who started us on this journey with her story about Cleo’s murder, wants to know how Cleo died. I tell her about Jill and Gina, what they told us about Cleo, and what they didn’t.

Connie: They refused to talk about it. They said that we have to find out on our own and that we need to try to find her death certificate. But they would not talk about it at all.

Christine: Hmm. Oh yeah, something happened for a perfectly healthy 13-year-old to die, right? And suddenly, too. I sense the death was unexpected. But I'd like to know too, yeah. Yeah.

Connie: We try calling April and Mark again.

Connie: So we'll just have to try to reach Mark another time because we can't get in touch with him. But now April and Christine are both on the line here.

Christine: Hi.

April: How are you?

Christine: Good good good, how are you?

April: Doing pretty good, thanks.

Connie: April doesn’t use social media so she hadn’t yet heard the news that we’ve found Cleo.

April: What’s up?

Christine: So the reason we're calling is that they found Cleo's grave.

April: Oh my God, where?!

Christine: It's in New Jersey. We know where she is now.

April: Oh my god, that's great!

Christine: Yeah isn't it? I think that's good. We don't have to look for her anymore.

April: Yeah.

Christine: Are you okay?

April: Yeah, I'm okay. Wow.

Connie: Yeah. There's still, I think, you know, some unanswered questions

Connie: We tell them we’re trying to get information from police in Marlton and that we’ve been trying to reach Cleo’s adoptive mother, Mrs. Lee Madonia, on the phone.

April: I'd definitely like to find out how she passed away.

Christine: Yeah. I want to know, too.

April: Yeah. So she died in '78?

Connie: Yeah. December 22nd, 1978.

Christine: So she was 13 years old when she died.

April: Yeah. Wow.

April: Thank you, ladies, for doing all the hard work for us. And Chris, thank you for starting this process. We would have never found out if it wasn't for you, Chris.

Christine: Well, I needed to know. I still want to know more, too.

April: Yeah, me too.

Christine: Yeah. 13-year-olds just don't die, not very often, anyway. Like if her heart exploded or something, that's something we should know, right? Or if she was accidentally hit by a car or something, run over or something.

Connie: Can we ask you guys to let Mark know, or to get in touch with Mark?

Christine: Yeah, I'll keep trying. Like I have his email, so I'll ask him to call me and I’ll keep my little recorder around.

April: Well, I hate to say this, guys, but I have to let you go, I need time to process this all.

Connie: No I understand, for sure.

April: Yeah and Chris, I'll call you sometime, okay?

Christine: All right, [voice cracking] I'll be around.

April: Okay, love you.

Christine: I love you too.

April: Okay, bye.

Christine: Bye-bye.

Connie: How are you doing, Christine?

Christine: Oh good. I’m good. I’ll be fine.

Connie: I know it's a lot to bring up again, I'm sure.

Christine: Well it's a relief, but it's still just one... it's a major step, but it’s still more steps to be taken, right?

Connie: Christine believes that Cleo wants her to find out the truth about what happened to her.

Christine: My intuition tells me that she was not supposed to be taken from this world. I don't think it was anything medical. I think it was something beyond her control and that she didn't want to die. That's the sense that I get. But I don't think she was meant to be gone from this world. Something happened.

Connie: Christine tells me about a dream that she had of Cleo. She says she sometimes has these dreams, visions of Cleo trying to talk to her from beyond. To help her in her quest for answers and to bring Cleo home.

[soft music]

Christine: I had this dream of being on the banks of the Saskatchewan River but on the top, right? So I remember it was summer, and it was nice and green, it was windy, and I could hear the water. Then I see this house that had no windows. It had a door but it had no windows. It was a really weird house. And I remember thinking, why doesn't that house have windows? Then I see somebody running through the fields towards me, and it was Cleo, but she was younger. She was about, I don't know, four or five? She had a very full face and she looked very young. So she was running towards me and she was happy. And then in the background, I saw an older woman. [emotional] And that older woman, I think, was my grandmother because I've seen her wearing a blue dress and an apron, and she was coming out of the house. So I think my grandmother wants me to bring her back. So that's all I saw, was Cleo being happy, and the sense that Cleo’s happiest times of her life were on the reserve where she was staying with my grandmother. I don't know how I know that, that's what they showed me in my dream, so I don't know if any of that's true. But, in my dream, she was staying with my grandmother and she was very happy and she was on the banks of the Saskatchewan River.

Connie: So you want to bring her back to Saskatchewan?

Christine: Yeah. Because like, our lives had been like we'd been dropped from the sky, you know? We were raised by these people who don't look like us. Stand out in every class picture or little newspaper clipping throughout our whole lives, right? We belong somewhere, spiritually we're connected to somewhere. And so I want to be buried in Little Pine because even though I was taken from there doesn't mean that I don't belong there. Because when she came to me...[voice cracks] when Cleo came to me and told me those things, I think that's what she wants. She would have told me if she didn't. I need to know. I need to know. [sniffle]

Connie: I understand that, for sure.

Connie: I feel like we’re so close to uncovering the full story about Cleo and how she died, but I’m worried we are running out of time. It’s our last day in the United States. We’re supposed to fly back to Toronto later this afternoon. Before we go, we’re heading back to Marlton to check in with police one more time. But also to make the delicate approach and try to talk to Cleo’s adoptive mother, Mrs. Madonia.

Connie: We think that her mom is still alive here in New Jersey. She's probably in her 70s. You know. And that she might have a brother here as well. And we want to try to be as careful as we can with Cleo's mom, and so we thought that maybe a phone call first would be the best way to reach out to her.

[phone ringing]

Voicemail: Hello, please leave us your name and phone number and a message. And we'll call you back.

Message: At the tone…[hangs up]

Connie: I decide not to leave a message and we start on the two-hour drive back to Marlton. We aren’t on the road long when we realize we missed a call on Marnie’s cell.

Connie: So we just missed Mark's phone call, and I'm going to call him back.

[phone ringing]

Mark: Hello?

Connie: Hi, is this Mark?

Mark: Yes.

Connie: Hi Mark, it's Connie calling from CBC.

Mark: Somebody want to advise me as to what's going on?

Connie: Sure. Sure. We tried calling you this morning when we were on the phone with Christine and April. Um, But...

Mark: Okay, so you're on the phone with them. What's the big news here, Marnie?

Connie: It's Connie.

Mark: Sorry, Connie. I got Marnie on CBC, sorry I got the wrong person on the wrong number.

Connie: No, I'm using Marnie's phone, but I guess the news is that we found Cleo's grave in Marlton, New Jersey.

[pause]

Mark: How come you're the one telling me this?

[hangs up]

Connie: He hung up.

Marnie: Did he hang up?

Connie: [murmurs in agreement]

Marnie: Oh my goodness.

Connie: Mark is ticked off and I get it. I understand his anger. Why he wouldn’t want to hear such important personal news from a reporter that he’s never met in person. Of all of the siblings, Christine and Mark seem to be the closest. So I call her to let her know what just happened and to see if she can reach out to him.

Connie: We just we just got a call from Mark and we told him that we found Cleo and he was quite upset that he was hearing from us. He's, I guess, a little bit upset, and that I'm sure he'd appreciate a call or something.

Christine: Yeah I tried to call him. I'll give him another call.

Connie: Okay.

Connie: We hope Christine can reach Mark. In the meantime, we keep trying to call Mrs. Madonia.

Connie: Which number did you say, 0684?

Marnie: No, 0906.

Connie: Okay.

Voicemail: Hello, please leave us your name and phone number. [hangs up]

Connie: But we had another important phone call to make. Jill wouldn't tell us how Cleo died but suggested we contact Marlton police. She was certain they would have investigated Cleo’s death.

Rosenberg: Evesham Police department, Lieutenant Rosenberg, how may I help you?.

Marnie: Oh hi there, it's Marnie Luke calling from CBC News.

Rosenberg: Hello ma’am, how you doing?

Connie: Marnie reminds him why we’re calling and the information we’re hoping to get.

Rosenberg: And that's where I need to do some more legwork. I can tell you there was an active investigation.

Marnie: So you have been able to locate a file then.

Rosenberg: Yes. I actually have it sitting right, I have it sitting right in front of me.

Connie: Not only was there an active investigation into Cleo’s death, they still have the file from 40 years ago. Does that mean it was never solved? Immediately, Marnie wants to know if anything in that file sounds like what Cleo’s family has believed for decades: that she was murdered somewhere in Arkansas while trying to hitchhike back home to Saskatchewan.

Marnie: ..is what I'm explaining lining up with what you're seeing in the file or...?.

Rosenberg: There's definitely similarities to what you're saying may have happened in her past. That's why I was wondering maybe if she came this way from there or what because it's just it seems crazy. I don't know how-- but I think it's, I find it odd that there's all these similarities and the only difference is like Arkansas and New Jersey.

Marnie: Yeah, and her mother alluded to the fact that she had run away and tried to go back to Saskatchewan.

Rosenberg: That would probably be accurate.

Marnie: [murmurs in agreement]

Rosenberg: And I'll check. I mean, I'm actually checking upstairs as we speak to see with our clerk's office, there should be a death certificate on file, and I believe that that is a public record. I'm actually checking, I'm checking for that right now.

Marnie: Okay.

Rosenberg: I was told that they should have it. There's actually some of the officers that responded investigated are still alive.

Marnie: Ah, okay.

Rosenberg: So that may be one avenue that I'm going to potentially explore.

Connie: He can’t tell us much more about the police investigation. He says he needs permission before he can share more information. But we would find out that the file containing the police report is thick. I can’t help but think of that article in the paper about the attempted rape of teenage girl hitchhiking in the area in the weeks before Cleo died.

[driving sounds]

GPS Voice: Right turn ahead, then left turn.

Connie: We hit some traffic on the way back to Marlton and I’m starting to get anxious about the time. Marnie and I had talked it over with Heather, our senior producer, and we decide that if we can’t get Mrs. Madonia on the phone then we’ll try reaching her at home. Something I’m dreading doing. How will she react to a reporter just showing up and asking about her daughter who died nearly 40 years ago? I really don’t want to do this, but knocking on her door seems like the best option with such limited time.

Connie: So yeah, we're just a few minutes away from Mrs. Madonia's house and we’re going to knock on her door just to see if she's home and if she's... Let her know what we're doing and see if she's interested in talking to us.

Marnie: How are you feeling?

Connie: Really conflicted, actually. I'm trying to figure out if it's if it's just nerves. Like I understand we have this time pressure because we're only in New Jersey for a little bit of time. And I'm just wondering if this is the best way to do this. So I'm feeling a bit nervous about that, actually.

Connie: Marnie and I talk it over some more. We want to be as careful and as sensitive as we possibly can be. I’m still a bit unsure, but I think of Cleo’s siblings, about how much they want to know how she died, and how much I also want to know. We’ve been working on this story for months and we’re at a crucial moment. Her friends won’t tell us, neither will police. Talking to Mrs. Madonia today is our best chance at finding out the truth.

GPS Voice: Left turn ahead onto...

Connie: No, this looks right.

Marnie: Oh, this is it.

GPS Voice: You have arrived at your destination.

Connie: We pull up to a house which, according to our research, the Madonias have lived in for decades. Even before they adopted Cleo. This was Cleo’s home after she left Saskatchewan. It’s bigger - I’m sure - than any house she lived in on the reserve. It has two stories with lots of windows and red shutters. There’s a two-car garage right next to the front door. The lawn is freshly mowed. It looks like a perfect suburban home. We park across the street and I’m so nervous when I get out of the car.

Connie: All right.

Marnie: Good luck.

Connie: Marnie waits in the car.

[footsteps]

Connie: I cross the street, walk up the driveway, and approach the front door.

[screen door screeching open]

Connie Walker: Hi, I'm looking for Lee Madonia? Hi Lee. My name is Connie Walker. I know that we've never met. I'm a reporter with the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation in Toronto, Ontario.

Lee: Do you want to come in?

Connie: Sure, yeah.

Lee: I’m not really feeling well.

Connie: I’m sorry to hear that.

Lee: What’s your first name?

Connie: Connie Walker. I'm here because I'm working with a family in Canada. I'm a reporter and I got a message a few months ago from a woman. And she and her siblings, her biological siblings were all adopted into various families across North America, and they've been looking for their sibling, a young girl named Cleo.

Lee Madonia: Right.

[tense music]

Connie Walker: And we think that it might be your daughter.

Connie: Missing and Murdered: Finding Cleo is written and hosted by me, Connie Walker. The podcast is produced by Marnie Luke and Jennifer Fowler. Mieke Anderson is our audio producer and our senior producer is Heather Evans. Subscribe for free to get the next batch of episodes. Search Missing & Murdered: Finding Cleo on Apple Podcasts or your favourite podcast app. You can also listen, see photos and explore other extras on our website at cbc.ca/findingcleo.

[theme]

TRANSCRIPT: Missing & Murdered - Season 2, EP 5

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