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The AIH transcript for March 17, 2025

For more episodes of this podcast, please click this link.

NIL KÖKSAL: Hello, I'm Nil Köksal.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[theme]

CH: Tonight:

NK: Toronto the good...riddance. The Mayor of Canada's largest city says she'll ban U.S. companies from bidding on competitive city contracts as part of the payback for Donald Trump's tariffs.

CH: Flying in the face of the rules. A U.S. federal judge orders the Trump Administration to halt deportations under the Alien Enemies Act -- including flights that had already left the country. But those planes did not turn back.

NK: The Bay or not The Bay. Unfortunately, it looks like the second one, as Canada's oldest retailer, the Hudson's Bay Company, moves to shut down operations -- which leaves its employees with a lot of questions.

CH: Mock my words. The Canadian satirical news site The Beaverton is celebrating its 15th birthday: an editor tells us it's funny how interested people are in reading made-in-Canada humour writing.

NK: It takes all kindnesses. High school students in Pennsylvania are responding to an increasingly cruel world with acts of kindness. The teacher who inspired -- and funded -- them tells us what that means to her.

CH: And...the jet sweat. Swiss officials fasten their seatbelts after spending more than a hundred million francs on a fancy new aircraft -- only to discover it's too wide to fit in the hangar.

CH: As It Happens, the Monday Edition. Radio that guesses these plane-buyers just don't measure up -- or across.

Part 1: Olivia Chow: Tariffs, Hudson’s Bay Closure, Beaverton Birthday

Olivia Chow: Tariffs

Guest: Olivia Chow

CH: Canada's largest city says it has a plan to deal with Donald Trump. Today, Toronto Mayor Olivia Chow announced a slew of measures aimed at countering U.S. tariffs. They include things like deferring property taxes for struggling businesses, launching a "buy local" campaign, and banning U.S. companies from bidding on city contracts. The plan still needs to be approved, but if it is, Mayor Chow says it will roll out over the next 30 days -- just in time for the looming April 2nd tariffs. We reached Mayor Olivia Chow in Toronto.

NK: Mayor Chow, are these measures meant to help Canadians or hurt the United States?

OLIVA CHOW: Well, that's a very good question. It's meant to do both. We are under attack, [chuckling] and from our allies, and from our friends. But it is both a defence plan, but it's also about protecting the workers and the businesses. So, on that front, we are doing a deferral of property taxes. And that would give businesses a small opportunity to regroup and have some flexibility. That itself is about protecting and defending. In terms on the attack front, we are saying no to American-based companies. They cannot access our bidding process because of what they are doing in terms of the tariff. And so, this will cost about $1 billion over 10 years. So, we are, [chuckling] that is a bit of an attack. And also, we are buying local. We are saying to companies, Canadian companies, that we will only let you, you can bid on any of the contracts that are for construction, for example, will be $8.8 million.

NK: To let our listeners outside of, of Toronto and Ontario know, Toronto accounts for about half of Ontario's GDP. If these tariffs do come in as expected on April 2nd, which industries in Toronto do you think will be hardest hit? Which ones are you worried about?

OC: Oh, our manufacturing industry, our auto sectors because we use steel. Our building is, building uses steels, and you use quite a lot of materials. Toronto is the fourth largest city in North America. We have the most educated workforce in the world, actually, and we're most diverse. So, we are very strong that way. We are resilient. We bounced back from the pandemic, and from SARS, from 2008 economic crisis. We bounced back stronger, and we know we'll do the same just in, in this trade war.

NK: And in terms of being able to, to find suppliers within Canada. Realistically, that untangling from suppliers in the United States, how easy or difficult is that going to be realistically, Mayor?

OC: Well, we know who bids on our contracts, and it's about $210 million in the last two years. And there are alternatives. So, I'll give you an example. The city of Toronto buys fire trucks. [chuckling] They were made in America before. We are now buying the next 17 made in Canada.

NK: So, there are suppliers for those products?

OC: Yes, absolutely. Yeah.

NK: And why wouldn't we have done that, I think a lot of listeners will think, of course, it's important to, to push back and fight in the midst of, of this very real threat.

OC: Why didn't we do that before?

NK: But why wouldn't we go to Canadian suppliers before? American suppliers will always have an advantage because of the exchange rate and, and, you know, the size of the country. Why not sooner, you think?

OC: I know. I know you can say that of a lot of things that we do. Sometimes, we are comfortable with our neighbours. And, you know, we do what is always, we are accustomed to doing. And that's what free trade was about. It was what NAFTA was about. This is what the CUSMA, the Mexican, Mexico deal that is supposed to be renewed next year is what's all that about. But now that all of that is torn up and not being followed, we, we are saying, well, if you're not obeying [chuckling] what all the agreement that was signed, then why are we going the same old ways? We are examining every part of what we are, every element of what we do as a city, which is $79 billion budget, okay, in terms of both the capital and operating budget. It's huge. Why aren't we looking at every aspect, and in every opportunity buy Canadian.?

NK: But are you also asking, Mayor, Torontonians to be prepared to pay more for, for buying Canadian on these large contracts?

OC: Well, this morning at CNN, the the journalist asked me, how much pain do you think Canadians can bear? [chuckle] I said to them, look, our ancestors chose to come together because we believe in supporting each other. We believe in universal health care, a good education. That's why we have such a good, educated workforce, and that's who we are. We are tough because, you know, we are a bit colder than the U.S., and we need to rely on each other. So, we can handle it. We can fight back. We are strong. We are resilient. And the key thing is we are united.

NK: But do you think people will, that unity will continue if, if the price tag for, for these things, I know lots of people, and we've interviewed them talking about buy Canadian, and they don't want American products. They're all-in on that. But when these bills start coming and they are likely going to be higher, how will you prepare Torontonians for that? I mean, do you know what kind of cost it's going to come at at this point?

OC: We, I can't imagine it would be harder during those COVID years. It will, it will cost a bit more, but we can help each other out, which is exactly what we did during COVID, right? We, we extended a hand to each other, especially those that are more vulnerable. That's the Canadian way. And we will continue to be united. And we will stay strong, and stay optimistic.

NK: Mayor Chow, I appreciate your time. Thank you for this.

OC: Thank you.

CH: Olivia Chow is the mayor of Toronto. That's where we reached her.

[electronic]

Hudson’s Bay Closure

Guest: Dwayne Gunness

CH: It began 355 years ago. In a matter of weeks, it could all be over. Today, a Toronto judge granted the Hudson's Bay Company creditor protection -- paving the way for the company to shut down stores, lay off employees, and sell off whatever's left on its shelves. The Bay, as it's more commonly known, was born as part of the 17th Century fur trade. It's North America's oldest company. Its parent company, HBC, is owned by American real estate mogul Richard Baker. Dwayne Gunness is the President of Unifor Local 40, the union representing about 600 Hudson's Bay employees. We reached him in Toronto.

NK: Dwayne, there's been so much uncertainty for people who, work for HBC and the Bay. We're hearing the Ontario judge has reserved decision on liquidation until tomorrow afternoon. You know, I was speaking with someone who works in Toronto at a Bay location, and has for, for quite a long time, and they said that some were laid off in January, and were supposed to come back to work next month. But now, they don't know what's happening. What kinds of stories are you hearing from people you represent?

DWAYNE GUNNESS: So I have three locations that I represent in and around the Greater Toronto Area. The one especially is the e-commerce that had layoffs that lasted nine to 10 months. Recently, about 150 employees were recalled, and we weren't sure what exactly that was about. But when the announcement came about the liquidation, then that makes sense why they were recalled in order to move all that stock or inventory that the employer is currently sitting on at this location.

NK: Obviously, those those layoffs were a signal that things weren't going well. But did you and the workers have any indication of just how bad things were, and how quickly it might get to this point?

DG: Honestly, no. It, we knew things were slow. We were, we were, you know, the economic situation with inflation and, and disposable income not being spent on the most necessity that consumers need right now. Deferred the buying of, of leisure items or, you know, high-end items. But, but it wasn't, basically on Friday, when the the, details of exactly the magnitude of the amount that they owe is when things really told me exactly where this employer stands.

NK: And obviously, the Bay owes its workers wages and benefits. But, you know, I think as people read the details, the suppliers, the landlords, you know, people being locked out of at least one store from, based on our colleagues' reporting. Do you think that workers are going to be a priority to settle when settling those debts?

DG: I, well, Unifor national union really hopes so. Workers' livelihoods are on the line, and they are rightfully concerned And we are lobbying that we should be in line on behalf of our members to make sure that they are taken care of, especially with their pensions and their benefits.

NK: People might recall, and, and if I recall correctly, when this happened with Sears, people were not, did not receive what they were expecting to receive specifically with pensions, yeah.

OC: And ironically, I was involved with that. And you are correct. So, Sears actually I believe is still working through that. And I think it's culminating in the next short little while.

NK: After so many years?

DG: Yeah, after so many years. I mean, you know, the sad part about this is that the workers who have helped maintain and, and build the employer to where it is, when it comes to this process, always are the last in line to, to get anything that's leftover -- if there is any.

NK: Because you have very close knowledge of the Sears experience, what can you bring from that to help your workers who are now likely going to lose their jobs at the Bay? What can you do differently this time to try to get them what they're owed?

DG: Well, this time the rules haven't changed. So unless, you know, we get into lobbying that the workers have moved to the front end of the list is, is what should have been lobbied for and gained. But, as everyone knows, lobbying to, on behalf of workers is, it's a painstaking challenge. And especially, and a good example is Unifor has been lobbying with some other unions for changes in the employment insurance application, and how it should be diversified to address the needs of all Canadians. And that in itself was a painstaking event. So, you know, it's something we definitely have to do, especially under labour laws to address this issue.

NK: So, what will you be looking for and listening for in the judge's decision tomorrow on the liquidation plans that will be, you know, tangible information and useful information for the workers?

DG: Well, for one, that wages are being maintained for the existing workers that are currently in the workplaces. Because they have to be involved in this liquidation process. And secondly, and we heard this resoundingly from our members, is the funding of their pension plan. So, those are the two key, key aspects right off the bat we'll be following up on.

NK: Are you hopeful? I mean, what do you tell people who are reaching out to you, who are, have, you know, are worried and are anxious as, as you said?

DG: I'm always an optimist in any situation. But unfortunately, my optimism dwindled when, when there was the indication of what this leadership at Hudson Bay has the current company in. And even though it's down, we try our best to keep engagement with our members, and keep them updated. And it's, hopefully, we should have some good news coming out of this tomorrow with regards to their priorities. And as they see themselves as this employee supposedly going to be winding down.

NK: Dwayne, thank you for your time.

DG: You're welcome, and thank you for having me.

CH: Dwayne Gunness is the president of Unifor Local 40. We reached him in Toronto.

[jazz]

Beaverton Birthday

Guest: Ian MacIntyre

CH: The Beaverton calls itself Canada’s most trusted, least accurate, news source. This week, the satirical news site is celebrating 15 years of making fun of the news. And in terms of material these days, there's a truly absurd surplus. But in terms of everything else -- mass layoffs of journalists, non-satirical news sites shutting down, local journalism drying up, and the Online News Act making it harder for Canadians to access news on Meta platforms -- it's never been bleaker. But somehow, The Beaverton has kept going -- and kept its sense of humour. Ian MacIntyre is an editor at The Beaverton. And we reached him in Toronto.

NK: Congrats on 15 years, Ian.

IAN MACINTYRE: Thank you very much. We're as surprised as anybody.

NK: [laughing] How many times over those 15 years would you guess someone has, has looked at a Beaverton headline and forgotten what you do, and thought it was real news?

IM: More times than we would like. Honestly, anything we write, we try to be so silly that it never once occurs to us that people will get fooled. And it happens so much.

NK: When did it happen most recently, do you think? I was just scrolling through your site, it's, it's pretty clear, but.

IM: Gosh! There was something about Trudeau putting tariffs on any Trump businesses that haven't gone bankrupt yet. [NK laughs] And some people, some people thought that was serious.

NK: Did they like it, did they think that was a bad idea?

IM: Oh no, they definitely liked it. They seemed in favour of it. And then, they were disappointed to find out that we were just making it up.

NK: When that happens, I know that, that's, that's not your goal, as you've said. But does it, does it make you feel like you have done your job, or are you worried at that point?

IM: It depends. Most of the times, it's funny. Sometimes, we feel a little bad. Many years ago, we had a very popular couple of viral articles about Chris Hadfield, about him coming home to a multi-million dollar Rogers bill, [NK chuckles] from tweeting from space. And Commander Hadfield's press people very kindly reached out to us [chuckling] and said, we love what you guys do. You're so great. Every time you do this and it confuses people, it causes a lot of work on our end. Could you please stop?

NK: And what do you say?

IM: We were so embarrassed. [both laugh] I wish I could say, like, no, satire! We were like, yeah, we'll maybe ease up on the Hadfield stuff. [chuckling]

NK: But, but that's a, that's a special case. I don't, I don't suspect you, you pull back when everybody calls you and, and tells you or demands that you pull back.

IM: He might be one of the only people that's ever really reached out to us about it. He did it in such a friendly way, we couldn't help it. Rarely do people reach out to us and say, this is getting confused for something real. Please stop. I think in our 15 years we've gotten, like, one cease and desist.

NK: All right. And what was that for?

IM: See, now I'm worried if I say it on the radio, it'll all start again. [NK laughs] No, it's fine. I'll name names. It was something about a Coffee Time restaurant here in Toronto having an employee being dead behind the counter for three days before anyone noticed. [NK chuckles] And the Coffee Time. People reached out to us with a sternly worded missive. But they didn't realize that multiple Beaverton writers are practicing lawyers.

NK: Do you see an uptick when politics becomes particularly crazy? Do you see people come to your site more?

IM: Unfortunately, yes. I promise we would much rather have lower traffic and no global trade wars. But yes, we've definitely seen a huge increase in traffic in the last couple of months.

NK: I mean, are people looking for relief and laughter in difficult times? Is that, do you think, is that why they come to satire?

IM: I think that's a big part of it. If anything, the satire usually comes to them. Like, it's going out on social media being shared by people. And I think here in Canada, satire has been such a part of the global conversation for, like, the last decade, especially in the Trump era. And Canadian people here, like, we really want to see ourselves reflected, and jokes that speak directly to us. But there's a real hunger out there for people to be making fun of us from our own perspective.

NK: So, does your team then have to level up, and all those lawyers who are writers level up as well? [IM chuckles] Because, I mean, we have a, we have a brand new prime minister, an election is on the way. We have meetings and prep for, for the election, obviously, at a news organization like this one. What do you guys do in a moment like this to meet that uptick in that, that interest?

IM: We got, like, a group chat. [NK chuckles] No, we, like, we definitely plan ahead. And, you know, when, say like when there's an election called, it's nice to be able to point to like okay that day, we have to have something ready by, and let's start noodling on ideas ahead of time. But unfortunately, the name of our game, I guess, like you guys, is we have to be pretty reactive, and, and really just kind of following the news as we go, and jumping on stuff as it happens.

NK: Then there's the U.S. President, and people have said that it's hard to satirize him. [IM chuckles] What's your take on that? How do you calibrate for that?

IM: I think he's hard to satirize almost by design. I think he, he relies on being, he understands that absurdity and being outrageous is a big part of how he dominates the media. So, he, he's trying to be silly. And it's hard to top him in that regard. But, you know, we've definitely learned a lesson from Trump round one. There was a lot of following the puck the whole time with him, and trying to respond to things as they were happening, and trying to, you know, swing at every pitch. I'm mixing my sports metaphors. I'm one of the Beaverton writers who doesn't know anything about sports. [NK chuckles] But this time, we're really, like, we're trying to take a bit more measured approach and only write articles when he actually does things, as opposed to when he just says things. Because that tends to be so much more ephemeral.

NK: As you know, small news outlets have been shutting down right across Canada. News deserts are becoming increasingly common. Just last week, I was speaking with the owner of a newspaper in central Alberta that is shutting down. And it was, you know, 90 hamlets, villages, and towns covered, 26,000 homes, they said.

IM: Oh, what a shame.

NK: Where do you see the role, I mean, obviously it's satire. It's not straight up news. [IM chuckles] But how do you place yourself in that kind of environment? And how do you survive?

IM: We are genuinely as shocked as anyone that we are still surviving, although we don't have a lot of overhead for what we do, so it's definitely a lot easier to keep our goofy little website going than it is to staff a proper newsroom. And I mean, as much as we love doing this, we definitely don't see ourselves as any kind of substitute for real journalism, especially real local journalism. The best that we can kind of hope to do on our end is be the candy that keeps people interested enough and, hopefully, encourages them to go read real reporting to try and follow up on stories, as opposed to just getting all their news from TikTok or something like that.

NK: The Beaverton Weekly Report is coming back, the podcast, March 19th. Are you bringing it back because of the political space we're in?

IM: Yes. Yes. We saw how Joe Rogan got rich off of [NK laughs] helping to undermine democracy.

NK: Who's that?

IM: And we, I don't know, I've never heard of him either. It's definitely a time when people are listening to podcasts, and getting, hopefully, not their news, but I guess some of their opinions from it. And we think there's a space to be funny while doing that. And specifically this time we really want to get more into the weeds of Canadian news. Because again, last time we did this, it was very easy to get distracted by every silly thing Trump did. And we want to make fun of Mark Carney. No one's come up with good jokes about him yet. It's time to do that.

NK: I'm glad we could speak, Ian. Thank you.

IM: That was really fun. Thank you as well.

CH: Ian MacIntyre is an editor at The Beaverton. We reached him in Toronto.

[jaunty showtune]

Swiss Government Jet

CH: Here it is, taxi-ing into the hangar: our new Bombardier business jet. 34 metres long. 32-metre wingspan. Full-size kitchen; seating for 19 passengers. A bargain at the price of merely 103 million Swiss francs. The perfect… [a metallic clank] oh no! The wings smashed into the door frame and one...one of them fell off. Have you ever ordered something, only to find it was too big to bring inside? You know, a sofa? A lizard? A pizza? It's embarrassing, of course, but hardly anyone knows you messed up -- just the delivery people, or the webmaster at Lizard-Time-dot-com. Whereas everyone in Switzerland knows about the new plane. Switzerland's Federal Council has taken delivery of a Bombardier Global 7500 jet, It’s a big, sleek plane with all the amenities and an ability to travel impressive distances without refueling. But after standing outside and marveling at it, officials in the capital, Bern, realized they couldn't stand inside and marvel at it. Because there's no hangar in Bern big enough to house it. Which no one had apparently figured out beforehand. It will take two full years to build a proper hangar for the plane. In the meantime it will sit at a military base, which doesn't seem right for an aircraft that's the height of luxury and the width of -- well, something that's too wide. I'll bet the people who failed to think ahead are getting yelled at right now. Someone from the government must really be blowing a fuse at how badly they've blown the fuselage.

[electronic]

Part 2: Venezuela Deportations, $20 Kindness Challenge

Venezuela Deportations

Guest: David Super

CH: The Trump administration has ignored a court order. And it's not backing down. This weekend, a federal judge blocked U.S. President Donald Trump's use of the Alien Enemies Act to deport more than 200 alleged members of a violent Venezuelan gang -- and added that any flights already in the air should turn back. That didn't happen. Instead, El Salvador's president posted video online showing men being taken off a plane for detention there, writing, quote, "Oopsie ... Too late." Unquote. Today, members of President Trump's team denied the court’s authority, arguing that the judge does not have the ability to halt the deportations. Here's border czar Tom Homan.

SOUNDCLIP

TOM HOMAN: The plane is already over international waters, with a plane full of terrorists and significant public safety threats. And, you know, to turn a plane around over international waters, international waters, come back and bring terrorists back to the United States, that's not what this president promised the American people. What the president did was exactly the right thing.

CH: U.S. border czar Tom Homan talking to reporters this afternoon. Not long after that, the U.S. Department of Justice sought the judge's removal. David Super is a constitutional law expert at Georgetown University. We reached him in Washington, D.C.

NK: Professor Tom Homan, also on Fox News, said he does not care what judges think, and he's not stopping the deportations. What do you hear when you hear those kinds of comments?

DAVID SUPER: I hear contempt of court. And more than that, I hear someone in a high office expressing contempt for the system of checks and balances that is at the centre of the US Constitution.

NK: And also, we're hearing this afternoon the Department of Justice is looking to have the judge removed. What should we take from that?

DS: Well, there's been a pattern of personalizing this, of accusing judges of doing something improper when they're simply upholding the law. The administration took a wildly aggressive interpretation of the Alien Enemies Act when it did what it did. Any judge likely would have called them down on that, but they're trying to change the subject from their own lawless behaviour to the supposed shortcomings of this or that judge.

NK: The judge in this case blocked the use of that act for these deportations, saying that the statute refers to hostile acts by another country that are commensurate to war. Donald Trump's team is arguing that this, this Venezuelan gang's activities do constitute a war, and that the federal courts have no jurisdiction over how a president conducts national security and foreign policy. What can, what can judges do about that kind of argument, and this president, and a team that is ignoring court orders?

DS: The courts have a lot of resources available to them. Someone made a decision, whether it was Mr. Homan or someone else, to violate this court order, and to continue to send the plane to El Salvador because they believe that their policies are more important than following a court order. That's contempt of court. And courts can punish that quite severely.

NK: What kind of recourse, what kind of punishment, would we see?

DS: Well, they have the ability to find whoever did that in criminal contempt. That is a crime for which they can be tried and convicted, and fined or sent to jail. But they also have the power of what's called civil contempt, where they can impose a personal penalty on whoever is defying them that continues until that person comes into compliance. So they could, for example, fine an official $10,000 a day until they shut down these flights. Or they could put them in prison until they give an order to shut down these flights. They can't do that for the president, but they can do that for anybody else.

NK: How do you see, Professor, this, this playing out? What are the next moves? Where does this go?

DS: I think that the administration has crossed a line here. They've not been complying with court orders, and they've come up with not very credible explanations for why they're not complying with those court orders. But what we have here is outright defiance that we have not seen before. And I think this is going to force the courts to act. Even the Warren Court, the most Liberal court we have ever had, determined that you could be convicted of contempt of court for violating an unconstitutional order against the demonstration. They supported the civil rights movement in many ways, but they still upheld the sanctity of court orders. I think this Supreme Court, which probably has a lot of sympathy with Mr. Trump on some particular issues, is still going to stand strong on the importance of following court orders.

NK: The Trump administration, as you know, was also arguing in part that the planes carrying these people were over international waters by the time the order from the judge came down. Will that make any kind of difference?

DS: That's an absurd argument. They were run by the American government. They could be turned around by the American government. The authority of the court was over officials of the American government. That's who he issued this injunction against. If I'm subject to a court order, it doesn't matter if I do it on the other side of the world, I can be in contempt of court.

NK: Have you been discussing this in your classes?

DS: I have been, and it is puzzling to students who are studying the law on the assumption that law is what governs how we conduct ourselves as a society. And they're seeing this administration act as if was quite irrelevant.

NK: But for people who aren't studying law, and all across the country, you know, embroiled in their own personal issues and concerns, pocketbook issues, all that, that sort of thing, and, you know, we heard what Homan said, and what the what the administration has said about who they alleged these folks to be. Do you think most Americans recognize what has happened, and are as concerned as you are? Do they care?

DS: I think most Americans are not paying attention to each of the particular moves, and it'll be a little while before they start paying attention to this. But it's going to be elevated to the Supreme Court probably sooner rather than later. And when it is, it will get a lot more attention. And I think people will start to focus on what's at stake here, whether you do or not, do not believe the administration is correct that the people rounded up were, in fact, gang members. As far as I can tell, they were given no due process, no chance to show otherwise, a lot of people, I think, do care about checks and balances. That's something we're taught about from a very early age in this country, that no one part of the government has too much power. And President Trump has clearly rejected the checks and balances system, and is trying to establish a strong executive that has a lot more in common with George the Third than with George Washington.

NK: Professor, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

DS: My pleasure.

CH: David Super teaches law at Georgetown University. He’s in Washington, D.C.

[ambient]

Israeli Objectors

CH: Last year on As It Happens, we talked to Tal Mitnick, as he prepared to return to military prison in Israel for the fourth time. Mr. Mitnick publicly refused military service after October 7th, and served 185 days in military prison. Now, along with fellow objector, Einat Gerlitz -- who spent 87 days in prison for refusing to serve -- he is about to embark on a speaking tour with stops in 13 Canadian cities. Yesterday, Mr. Mitnick and Ms. Gerlitz talked to the CBC about what they're calling their Refusenik Tour. Mr. Mitnick began by explaining how military enlistment works in Israel.

SOUNDCLIP

TAL MITNICK: Every child, every person, every Jewish citizen of Israel has to enlist in the military after finishing high school. It's like you guys have college here after finishing high school, and we have the military. And tests for the military start already in 11th grade to see what position are best, what positions are best for you. So, it's really taken as this, like, very normal thing. Like it's not thought about as a decision to join the military. It's just something that everyone does.

NADIA KIDWAI: And how long do you have to serve?

EINAT GERLITZ: So, men are obligated to serve for two years and eight months, and women are obligated to serve for two years.

NADIA KIDWAI: So, Einat, let's start with your story. Because you made the decision to refuse this mandatory military service back in 2022. What made you make that decision?

EG: So, I think it was, it was a complicated process to get to that decision because it's, like Tal said, it's very clear that the military is part of our lives. I have a grandpa who fought in the '67 war, in the '73 war. It's very clear that that's what you do after high school. I think during, during high school, I got involved in activism. After coming out of the closet, finding the queer community, getting involved in queer activism, and then in climate activism, I met there for the first time, I had Palestinian friends who are Israeli citizens at 17. And, and having, having Palestinian friends at 17 is not a regular thing for an Israeli Jew. And that's, that's where the, those, there's cracks in that narrative really opened up for me. Realizing what oppression they go through, realizing what's behind this big word occupation that didn't mean a lot to me before. And I understood that I can't, I can't enlist in the military that oppresses my friends and their families.

NADIA KIDWAI: So, you made this decision to refuse military conscription. What was the reaction that you got?

EG: So, there were different reactions. Some people supported me from the beginning. Some people told me that I'm selfish for choosing not to enlist because it's seen as the years that you're giving back to the country who so-called protects you your whole life. So, I was told that choosing not to enlist is selfish. People said that I'm a traitor. I got all kinds of comments. But for me, how I see it, it's the biggest step of taking responsibility for the society that I live in, and for making a change, and doing something for, for a better future, and not enlisting to be part of the military that enforces the apartheid regime.

CH: That was Einat Gerlitz and Tal Mitnick talking to Nadia Kidwai, host of The Weekend Morning Show in Winnipeg.

[eerie instrumental]

$20 Kindness Challenge

Guest: Kristina Ulmer

CH: Sometimes it can feel like the world is getting crueller by the day. But then, if we're lucky, a stranger makes an unexpected -- and unexpectedly kind -- gesture. That happens regularly in Horsham, Pennsylvania. For example, here's a local high school student explaining what she did last spring.

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[ sad pop music]

STUDENT: I bought flowers for my neighbours because they recently lost their husbands, and I felt really bad because I know what it's like to lose someone that you're close to. And it made me feel really good because knowing that pain, knowing what it feels like to lose someone really sucks.

CH: It's no accident that teenagers like her are extending goodwill towards others. It's thanks to one of their teachers. A few years back, Kristina Ulmer created the $20 Kindness Challenge -- inspired by a death in her family. And now, it’s resonating more than ever. We reached her in Horsham, Pennsylvania.

NK: Kristina, it's not just that your students are taking this money and using it for good, but, but also saying things like that. So, when you hear your students say that, and hear that empathy, what does that mean to you?

KRISTINA ULMER: I tell them that every semester when I watch their videos, that I cry. Because I have been a teacher for 20 years. And 19 of those years I've taught ninth graders. So, they're 14, 15 years old. And a lot of people stereotype that age. And they'll, you know, they say they're self-centred or, you know, they don't see outside of themselves. And I just don't see that. So, when I hear them say things like that, it's what I experience every day, but it's the entire point of the project. I want them to notice that, you know, people around them could possibly be struggling or might just be having a bad day. And, you know, by doing an act of kindness, it can, you know, make their day a little bit better.

NK: You first started doing this in 2018, giving your students $20 each to do something kind for others. Your sister was an inspiration. Can you tell us a little bit about how?

KU: My sister was always from the time we were little, was always concerned with people who are struggling or people who seem to be less fortunate than we were. You know, whether they were struggling with something personally or financially, or just whatever the circumstances where. She was always really concerned with that. She didn't understand why other people would have less than we had. And in my household, it was, we were always taught, you know, to look at other people and be kind, and think of ways that we could include other people. And what can we do, you know, to, to better other people's situations? And so, she would do things like she volunteered at a local food bank for a while, and she ended up deciding that she wanted to be an EMT. So, right before she passed away, she put herself through school to, to, she was going to work on an ambulance. And unfortunately, she passed away when she was looking for a job. But she just, she always was concerned with helping people. And, and even when she passed away, at her funeral, like, it's kind of, it's not a joke, but it's, we would say in my household all the time, we tell my kids because my kids were too little when she passed away, they don't really remember her, but that everybody was her best friend. At her funeral, everybody came up and would say, well, Kate was my best friend, you know? And I'm going to miss my best friend. And we just was like, well, everyone was her best friend because she really, really was everybody's best friend. She just took care of everybody.

NK: And, and as she was getting ready for that other life and EMT life, she was a waitress. It was a car accident that took her life. And she had, she had tips with her that day. And you held on to that?

KU: I did, yeah. So, as a, she worked primarily for my father's company. My father owns a film company. But then on the side, she waitressed. It was a local, family-owned restaurant. And she worked, it was a Sunday morning, so she worked the breakfast morning, and she had a lot of regulars who had come to see her. And, you know, they wanted her to be their waitress. And so, when I got her purse and her wallet and saw that she had all these tips, you know, this big stack of, of money, I knew it had to go to something worthwhile. And I just didn't know what. And it took a couple of years for me to put, the purse and the wallet were in this cabinet in my living room, and I thought, I got to do something with it. I just didn't know what yet. And it wasn't until fall of 2018. So, it was four years after she passed away that I had this really amazing group of students in front of me, and we were reading a dystopian novel, Fahrenheit 451. In the world of the novel, everyone's obsessed with their screens. They walk around with earbuds in all day long. They, you know, they lack empathy toward each other. Yeah, it sounds very, everyone's anxious. Yeah, that sounds very familiar. So, and I thought, you know, I could do something to connect to what we were doing in class with my sister's money, and talk about how the importance of empathy. And, you know, how that, to me, that prevents us from becoming a society like that, where nobody cares about each other. And where society just breaks down. So, yeah, so then I got that idea. And I just, I went to the bank, and I exchanged all the ones and fives and, you know, $10s for $20 bills, and came into class and gave my students the $20 each.

NK: And you added some of your own money to it.

KU: I did, yeah. Yeah, I did. I made up the gap of whatever. I don't even remember at this point exactly how much there was of, of my sister's money, but it was a little bit that I made up the difference, yeah.

NK: And what kinds of things have your students done with their $20 over these years?

KU: Ooo! All, they are all over the place. So, I have a lot of students who will buy food to support our local food bank. I had students put together, either like make cookies or cake or something to give to essential workers, whether it's the police, or local fire department, or they take them in and give them to, you know, nurses at our local hospital. Some of my favourites are kids will use their talents to do something. So I had one girl who learned how to crochet, and she crocheted little red hats for premature babies because the American Heart Association collects these red hats, and they can identify the premature babies that have heart conditions in the NICU. So, that was cool. Kids that can really use their talents and they take some time, they're really thoughtful about how they use the money.

NK: That's, the word thoughtful is, is what came to mind as you, as you went down that list. You know, this is a beautiful tribute to your late sister. Has it helped you grieve and heal as well?

KU: Tremendously, yeah. It's funny, when I, when she first passed away, I thought the way to heal was to go to grief groups. And I'm not, I don't want to negatively stereotype groups because I think they have a place, and they are really helpful to people. But I didn't find that very helpful for me. As I started to do this project, I could find that I, I don't know, that like piece of me that was missing for my sister kind of started filling in a little bit, and I kind of felt like she was still here because the things that the students are doing are things that she would have been doing in person.

NK: Kristina, a real pleasure speaking with you. Thank you.

KU: Oh, thank you.

CH: Kristina Ulmer is a teacher at Hatboro-Horsham High School. She’s in Horsham, Pennsylvania.

[folk lullaby]

QUE. ‘Sesame Street’ Emmy

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WOMAN: And the Emmy goes to...Can They Be Friends, Sesame Street.

[clapping and cheering]

CH: That's what it sounded like on Saturday, when a Sesame Street segment called Nature Explorers won a Children's and Family Emmy Award. It was the first Emmy for Katherine Sandford, of Chelsea, Quebec -- one of the writers who took home the award for "outstanding writing for a Preschool or Children's Series," for a Nature Explorers segment called Butter Fly Away. Before the ceremony, she talked to the CBC about the nomination.

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KATHERINE SANDFORD: It is everything that you think it is working for Sesame Street. It was a dream job. And I'm so proud and, you know, happy to represent the little Canadian bit of Sesame Street.

STU MILLS: You are being recognized for this segment that's called Butter Fly Away.

KS: Yes.

SM: What happens there? What's the synopsis of this?

KS: Well, it's an interesting idea because considering where we're at, right? Because it's about friendship and unlikely friends. And the idea being that the kids see a butterfly, and they keep chasing it around. And of course, that's not the way to be friends with a butterfly. So, they have to, our catchphrase is observe, don't disturb. And once they realize, you know, the butterfly prefers specific flowers, then they can plant a butterfly garden, the butterfly comes to them. So really, of course, they, you can be friends with a butterfly. It just has to be on the butterfly's terms. I really think that this is the time that we should be considering Canadian television for children rather than, yeah, just YouTube and American content, which, like, Canada punches way above its weight in, in children's content. And maybe with a little mindfulness, we can be more proactive. Because I tell you, I have worked on content all over the world, and I've worked with a lot of American content, and, and there is a difference.

SM: What does that mean in the sense that --

KS: In the values that are transmitted through the, I mean, I don't want to say that about Sesame Street because Sesame Street has been progressive since the '60s. Like, we all follow Sesame Street, you know? We all aspire to that. But in a lot of other programs, it's not that kind of a, Canadian values aren't the ones top of mind. Why would they be, you know? So, I mean, if we want our children to, to assimilate our values, we need to be mindful of the programs that they watch.

SM: What are you most looking forward to in that award ceremony?

KS: Well, I'm looking forward to meeting a lot of the people at Sesame Street that I haven't met, except virtually.

SM: Virtually, yeah.

KS: Yeah. Because this is actually two years ago I worked on the show. It takes a while to get through the meat grinder and stuff. So yeah, and, and that's what I'm looking forward to. I mean, the people who work at Sesame Street are golden, you know? And, and I want to give them a little comfort, and tell them, you know, we got you. We're not going anywhere.

CH: That's Katherine Sandford speaking with the CBC's Stu Mills on Ottawa Morning.

[pop rock]

Part 3: Geriatric Penguins, Burlington Salamander Crossing

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ARSEMA BERHANE: At the time, it was, it was devastating. It was, you know, the exact opposite of everything that Nahom embodied. He was a person that really believed in the fact that everyone has a story. He always said, everybody has a story. Let's not jump into, you know, let's not make assumptions. Let's, let's take the time to connect with folks, and learn that story, and see how we could connect human-to-human. And so, to hear somebody make such an irresponsible comment at the time really shook us. And I think I would say even fueled us to, to do this work, right? To, to, to, to invest in the stories of young people, to amplify the stories of young people so that they, too, are not misjudged by, you know, the way that they look or they present in society. And it really fueled me personally because I said, this will not be the story that's going to surround Nahom, and Nahom's legacy. And so again, this scholarship is a way of doing that. It's an opportunity to tell the real story, to tell the story of who Nahom was and continues to be through this work. And then to, you know, work with the people around us to create a society where we are actually taking a moment to pause and think about the conditions that create, whether it's acts of violence, whether it is, you know, mental health that causes violence. In this case, that's what we've learned. And so, it was an opportunity to do our part, I would say, to correct these type of assumptions that are made, and to, to really use this as an opportunity, like I said, to amplify the stories of people around us.

DAVID COMMON: I know it would have been your brother's 45th birthday this past Saturday. How would he have celebrated?

AB: He would have celebrated through music. He was a DJ. And so, you know, he created joy for all through music. He would have been with his family. And so, we gathered, we definitely gathered to celebrate his life and legacy with all his nieces and nephews and the rest of our family. When we went to the cemetery this past Saturday, my mother took out the flier, the poster of the scholarship. You know, it was pouring rain, but she found tape, and taped it to the bouquet. And to me, it was such a profound moment of, wow, this, this scholarship really means a lot to, to my mom, to the family, but ultimately, to the young people that we've been able to help, and the communities that they've been able to, to support. And so, it's been such an honour.

CH: That was Arsema Berhane, co-chair of the Nahom Berhane Scholarship for Leadership and Inclusion. She was talking to David Common, the host of Metro Morning in Toronto.

[classic rock]

NS Cancer Results

CH: In September of last year, Cathy Croskery of Nova Scotia found a lump on her breast. So immediately, she started looking for a place that would do a mammogram. Her search wound up taking months. She went to walk-in clinics, spent hours in the emergency room, and was finally told to try the Bedford Basin Women's Health Clinic. It took her another month to get that appointment -- at which time she was referred for a mamogram that prompted a second mammogram, an ultrasound and a biopsy. And then, the clinic told her she would have to wait 10 more days for the results. So, Cathy Croskery waited, and waited, for what turned out to be five weeks. No one got in touch. So, she contacted the clinic -- and was told that she had a cancerous mass in her right breast.

SOUNDCLIP

CATHY CROSKERY: It's just, it's a whirlwind because all of a sudden, you're into appointments, and procedures, and questions, and racking your brain, and inconveniencing your family. Now, I've got to get my husband to take me to appointments and take time off. Go and spend money. Buy, you need to buy a nice, new, and supportive bra, and you've got all these exercises that you're going to have to do over that. And I haven't even had the conversation with my husband yet -- all those what ifs. What if something happens? What if something happens during surgery? My sister passed away from a pulmonary embolism after having surgery to have a shunt putting in her shoulder. So, I mean, crap happens, and I don't want that to happen. And that's an uncomfortable conversation that I don't want to have. I'm going to have to have it because that's life. But this didn't need to happen. It just didn't need to happen. There's a break in communication somewhere along the line that, where's the person with the big red stamp that says positive cancer diagnosis passes to a person that's going to do something about it. Where did that go? Where did my results go?

ALY THOMSON: Take me through the emotions you felt waiting for this diagnosis, and then finding out after chasing it down that you had cancer.

CC: The waiting was a really good con game I was doing in my own head, literally. And like I was saying to my girlfriend, [chuckle] no news is good news. Well, yeah, no, literally just conning myself. And then, the reality when she said, yeah, it's carcinoma. I was like, oh, okay. I didn't even want to hear what stage it was. I didn't even, I didn't, I didn't even want to give it acknowledgment. I feel like if I give it acknowledgment, I'm giving up power. I don't want to give it power. So, part of me doesn't even want to talk about it. Good news, though. I mean, she did say that it was contained. She's hoping that it's not up into the lymph nodes. I did say if you have to take one, take them both. I'm not walking around dealing with the inconvenience of one not being there. Just take them both. Let's be done with it. And if that's where it ends up going, I don't feel it would have had to have gone there if it had've been dealt with properly earlier. But the roadblocks are realistically there. They're there.

CH: That was Cathy Croskery talking with CBC Nova Scotia reporter Aly Thomson.

[ambient]

FOA: Cheeto Artist

CH: When I say the buyer must have "crunched the numbers", I don't mean they ate this thing. It's probably stale by now anyway. On Friday's show, we told you about a Cheeto that recently sold at auction for just under $90,000 USD because of its striking resemblance to the Pokémon Charizard. It’s normal. And we told you about the same auction house's efforts to capture that lightning in a bag one more time. Well, that reminded us that we were hungry. And it also reminded us of Andy Huot of Kentucky, who told former As It Happens host Carol Off about his journey from Cheetos eater to Cheetos artist. From Our Archives, here's part of that conversation.

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ANDY HUOT: I found the number seven, which was actually a pretty good number seven in very intricate fonts. Then I found -- I think it was a fan cheering in the crowd, I call it. It looked like a guy with his arms up.

CO: And then you had like a hammerhead shark, a cat...

ANDY HUOT: A hammerhead shark, yes. Cats.

CO: How popular have your Cheeto works been?

ANDY HUOT: Pretty popular. Some better than others. They've been pretty popular on Instagram. I was able to amass a lot of followers. People liked it.

CO: But we talked about your Sasquatch and then the number 7 and things like a cat. But from there, you went into some pretty elaborate Cheeto art. I mean, I'm thinking about one which is called "Interpreter and guide for the Lewis and Clark expedition."

ANDY HUOT: Yes. Yes. That was the first one where I actually really elaborated on the caption -- and I call them...it's really a title. I look at those captions as titles. But that was the first one where I actually had an elaborate description and I really liked the descriptions being more elaborate. So I kind of just switched to that. And I was able to create better art.

CO: You have another one second: Sacagawea -- is that how you pronounce it?

ANDY HUOT: Sacagawea, yes.

CO: Sacagawea nods her head as she holds her baby, Jean Baptiste Charbonneau.

ANDY HUOT: Yes.

CO: And that's what you saw. You looked and said, "There it is. Sacagawea nodding her head as she holds her baby Jean Baptiste Charbonneau." There was no other interpretation for that Cheeto?

ANDY HUOT: There was. Actually the first thing -- I had that one for two weeks before I actually figured out what it was. I first was going to call it "a swamp monster" of some sort.

CO: Does the Cheeto tell you what it is?

ANDY HUOT: In a way it does. Sometimes it doesn't want to tell me and I have to coax it out. But some of them, it tells me right away. And others, I really honestly know it looks like something else. I'll take the picture, and then I just look at the picture and try and figure out what it is.

CH: From 2014, that was Kentucky Cheetos artist Andy Huot speaking with our former host Carol Off.

[pop]

Burlington Salamander Crossing

Guest: Sarah Harmer

CH: In Burlington, Ontario, spring is making its slow entrance. The birds are chirping. The snow is melting. The days are getting longer. And King Road is closed to traffic for the annual salamander crossing. Is it really spring without the great Jefferson salamander crossing? Obviously it is not. We all agree on that. And we've felt this way since 2012, when the city first shut down King Road, to save Jefferson salamanders from getting smooshed by cars. The Burlington area of the Niagara Escarpment is the only place the endangered amphibian lives in Canada. Their mating season only lasts a few weeks every year -- and the journey to their breeding ponds takes them right across King Road. Sarah Harmer is, of course, a singer-songwriter. But the Burlington-born Juno winner is also an environmental activist, and a huge Jefferson salamander fan. We reached Sarah Harmer in Perth, Ontario.

NK: Sarah, Burlington is certainly known for its beautiful waterfront. I think for a lot of people, the Jefferson salamander would not be at the top of the list of what it's known for there, but I'm hearing it's, it's kind of the unofficial mascot of Burlington.

SARAH HARMER: It is. It's a very mysterious amphibian that people don't get to see too often, but it is a very important mascot of the city.

NK: When did you first encounter your first Jefferson salamander?

SH: Well, the Jefferson was probably about 15 years ago or so. I took part with some biologists in the big night, which is the night where the first spring rains happen, and the temperature is just right. When salamanders come out of their burrows in the forest floor, and they make their way to vernal spring ponds to, to breed. And so, I was able to see many yellow-spotted salamanders and a few rare Jefferson's as well.

NK: And, and was it love at first sight for you?

SH: I was smitten. [both laugh]

NK: What is --

SH: It was very loud. It's very loud. It's, the peep, the spring peepers are just going crazy. It's raining, and the forest floor is moving. And it, it's really exciting. But you've got to be careful with every step.

NK: That, that does sound quite beautiful. Can you describe what, what that loud sound is like? Is it comparable to anything?

SH: It is. You know, it's just really high pitch. The spring peepers are calling, and do, and the wood frogs. And so, an amphibian expert would probably be able to make sense of the cacophony. But I'm not.

NK: It sounds like it's unforgettable, though. Whatever, whatever it does sound like.

SH: It's very special.

NK: And after that initial introduction to the Jefferson salamander, what made you, I mean, you clearly love them. You've fought for them. What do you love so much about them?

SH: Well, I learned a lot about them. And even though they're just small little amphibians that you'd kind of think, you know, didn't matter that much, they're actually really important indicators. They really are kind of a barometer of how well the forest is doing because they're so sensitive. They live in aquatic and terrestrial land and water. So, there, they indicate the general health, how they are doing. And they're, they're one of the top predators on the forest floor. So, they're, they're really pulling their weight.

NK: And how do people in Burlington, the locals there, feel about the yearly road closure? It impacts traffic, obviously. But at the same time, this is their, their mascot. So, how do people there feel?

SH: I think people feel a responsibility, those that know about the Jefferson salamander. They're on the federal and provincial endangered species list. Unfortunately, they've, their fate has gotten worse even since I've been paying attention in the last 15 years or so. And so, people feel, I think, a responsibility to try to protect them. And I think a real pride that the city of Burlington recognizes that it can do some things to help by closing the road so that when the salamanders at night are crossing to get back, you know, they breed in the same ponds that they were born in. So, there's a lot of romance going on, too. [NK laughs] And I think people, I think people are proud about the work the city does.

NK: They love, they love a love story. What, what does it look like when they're, you know, migrating like that? Like, I can, in my mind's eye, I'm developing a picture, though I haven't seen it unfold in person.

SH: It is, you know, it's a lot of slithering along the, [chuckling] the ground. It's dark. They're nocturnal. So, you, you really, it's, you have to make a concerted effort to, but they're also very sensitive. So you don't want to disturb them while they're in the middle of this ancient breeding ritual.

NK: You mentioned, you know, the concern about them. I believe an estimate from 2010 that said there were fewer than, than 2,500 of these Jefferson salamanders in Ontario. What is the biggest threat to them right now?

SH: Habitat loss is the biggest threat. And, and also, the provincial government is, has created a huge loophole -- the Ontario government, in the Endangered Species Act -- by allowing for what's called an overall benefit permit. So, if you're a developer or an industry, and you want to destroy endangered species habitats, all you gotta do is ask the province for a we call it a pay-to-slay permit. And apparently, according to the auditor general, no permits have been denied. So, the fate of the endangered species in Ontario is, is getting worse. And the province needs to stop issuing overall benefit permits. They are doing real damage, and they just give a free pass to anybody that applies that wants to destroy this habitat.

NK: So as you, as you push back on that provincial aspect of things, I know you spoke just last month at city council in Burlington about the protection of the, the how, the habitat of the the Jefferson salamander. They agreed to continue to protect that habitat. What, what is that going to, what is that going to involve? What will that look like, that protection?

SH: Yeah. The city of Burlington and the region of Halton have just unanimously passed a resolution saying that they oppose overall benefit permits for Jefferson salamanders, and that they recognize their responsibility. We're in a global biodiversity crisis, and it's up to municipalities to exert some responsibility and, and push back against the province that has been way too lenient.

NK: So, do you, do you feel, what is your confidence level given, given what you said about, about the Endangered Species Act and the loophole you're concerned about, but also what city council in Halton have done? Do you feel that that's going to, to ward off any danger for the Jefferson salamander habitat?

SH: Well, right now on Mount Nemo in Burlington, Nelson Aggregates is proposing a massive quarry right in the middle of, of Jefferson salamander habitat. And they have said that they will apply for an overall benefit permit. So, we are in the middle of an Ontario Land Tribunal hearing right now. And so, we need all eyes on Mount Nemo to stand up for these tiny little Jefferson salamanders that really are indicating the health of, of human life as well. So, we're all connected, and, and know that the threat is real. And we're trying to raise as much awareness, and push against these overall benefit permits as much as possible.

NK: Great to have you on the show, Sarah. Thank you.

SH: Thank you.

CH: Sarah Harmer is a Canadian singer-songwriter, and a champion of the Jefferson salamander. We reached her in Perth, Ontario. We contacted Nelson Aggregate for comment. In an email, managing principal of the firm Kevin Powers said quote "the Overall Benefit Permit is apProvincial government policy. Questions about whether it should or shouldn't exist are a matter for the province to decide." Unquote. The province did not respond to our request for comment before airtime.

The AIH Transcript For March 17, 2025

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