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The AIH transcript for March 13, 2025

For more episodes of this podcast, please click this link.

NIL KÖKSAL: Hello, I'm Nil Köksal.

TALIA SCHLANGER: Good evening, I'm Talia Schlanger, sitting in for Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[theme]

TS: Tonight:

NK: Double trouble. Canola farmers are bracing for a double hit of tariffs from two of their biggest customers. A farmer tells us he'd like to see more help from Ottawa.

TS: Labour pains. Canada’s Labour Minister fills us in on the government’s plans to protect workers from all sectors...and the challenge of doing that when it’s not always clear what you’re protecting them from.

NK: Change of address. A longtime Catholic church in St. John's will soon become a mosque. And faith leaders from both traditions are calling that a win for their province.

TS: What’s in a name? Donatella Versace announces she's stepping down as chief creative officer at the fashion house. And our guest says she's had an epic influence for someone who was never supposed to run the company.

NK: Pillars of the community. Residents of Tagish are mourning the loss of a space that was the heart of their community. A former director of that centre tells us why it was so much more than just a building.

TS: And...Kid gloves. As in the gloves we hope one B.C. 12-year-old is wearing while he picks up neighbourhood dog poop in an effort to raise the money he needs to pay for a new dirt bike.

TS: As It Happens, the Thursday Edition. Radio that admits to knowing the value of a good scoop.

Part 1: Tariffs: Canola, Tariffs: Steven MacKinnon, St. John’s Mosque

Tariffs: Canola

Guest: Roger Chevraux

TS: Canola is known as Canada's golden crop. Not only for the vibrant colour of its blooms, but also because it's one of the country's most valuable crops. Now, the glow of the bright yellow canola fields is losing some of its luster. Canadian farmers are bracing themselves for the double whammy of tariffs from two of the industry's biggest customers. A new, 100 per cent tariff from China is expected on agricultural products including canola oil and meal, next week. Then, there's the threat of U.S. tariffs. Here's Saskatchewan premier Scott Moe talking about the situation earlier today.

SOUNDCLIP

SCOTT MOE: With respect to China, we need to have urgent, urgent engagement by the federal government with the country of China, showing a willingness to find a path through and a path away from the tariffs that are being imposed on canola meal and canola oil.

TS: Roger Chevraux is a farmer and chairman at the Canadian Canola Growers Association. We reached him in Killam, Alberta.

NK: Roger, I know you've been in this business quite a long time. Generations and generations of your family members have been farmers, as are you. Have you ever been at a moment like the one you're in right now?

ROGER CHEVRAUX: Well, farming is always a challenge. I mean, we, we run into issues, you know, with weather and other things. But on the trade front, no. I honestly say this is, this is a full-court press against us right now, our two largest customers -- China and the United States -- both taking a swipe at us with, with tariffs is, is fairly devastating for sure, especially at this close to spring.

NK: And in terms of, of Canadian reliance on those two largest markets -- China and the U.S. -- are they replaceable?

RC: Well, I'll just give you an idea of just how big they are and how important they are to, to the Canadian canola growers. They are the two largest. You know, the United States is the largest. And overall, they took between the oil, the meal, and the raw seed, they took about $8 billion worth of our product last year. and China took approximately $5 billion. Our third largest customer is, is either Mexico or Japan. It kind of just depends on the year. And they represent just about $1 billion. So, just to give you an idea of the size and the scope of, of what we're talking about, they really are hard to replace. The challenge always is with the canola industry, is that it's not something where you can just say, okay, China is not buying from us, so we're going to go to another country, that's, that's going to take it. They, they have to have the infrastructure there to handle the raw seed if they're going to crush it. So, they have to have crushing facilities. So, it's not really easy to be able to just move that product around.

NK: And, and when you speak with your fellow canola farmers -- and there are tens of thousands of them across the country, if I'm not mistaken -- what is the, the common theme, the common story and worry that they're sharing with you?

RC: I think there's a lot of unknowns right now. I think this is all relatively new. I think there's a lot of people asking questions. They don't really know for sure what's going to happen. They are looking at the canola prices that have, have fallen quite a bit in the last week or so. So, I think there's some real concern there. I think some people are really trying to decide what they, what they're going to do before spring. Depending on where your geographical location is here in Canada, you know, we could be seeing farmers starting to seed within the month. So, you know, there's, it's kind of a short notice. It's hard to sort of change hats and pivot quickly. So, I think there's some real concern there.

NK: Do you think some will pivot?

NK: It's also a product that's been targeted specifically by China before. As you know, in 2019, China blocked canola shipments from two Canadian companies for three years. It says that these tariffs are in retaliation to the levies Canada has put on electric cars, steel, and aluminum. Have those previous tensions giving you an insight or, you know, tools that could be applied to what's happening now?

RC: Well, it does give us a little bit of an insight to some of the damage that it could, could cause. I mean, obviously we don't know for sure how big the damage is going to be. It depends on how long the tariffs are going to be on. And just to, to, to fully explain this, too. What China has announced is they've announced tariffs on their anti-discriminatory investigation. We're still waiting for their anti-dumping investigation. So, the tariffs right now are only on oil and on meal. we're still waiting to see what they're going to do about the seed. And the seed is actually, going into China is actually the largest portion of what we sell to them. So yeah, we have learned a lot. The last time we went through this in 2019, they put a restriction on two of our largest exporters. They didn't put a restriction on the entire market. So, we still had some of the minor exporters still exporting seed into, into China. So we were still, you know, getting some product into that marketplace. But over that period of time, some of the estimates to the damage that were done to the Canadian farmer was somewhere between $1.5 billion to $2.35 billion, I believe. So, it's, it's a big hit that the Canadian farmer takes when any of these kinds of things happen.

NK: I'm set to speak with the Labor minister, Minister McKinnon, a little bit later. And so, I'll definitely raise what you've said here. You know, they've talked about a package to, to help workers. What, what kind of support would you like to see financially if they were able to offer it?

RC: It depends on how long it goes. But the estimates we've seen is that, you know, it's, it could be upwards of $4.5 billion over the length of this. If it goes on longer than we think, then obviously the number is going to get larger. So, Canadian farmers need to have that support. We need to have some assurances. The one thing I will say for sure is that some of the government's responses in the past was to, to create loan programs for us to borrow, so we could borrow more money with commodity prices that are lower, so it's harder for us even to pay it back. That is not a solution for us. So, we need actual compensation for it. We have to do an analysis for sure. Our industry has been looking at it. And we do have some numbers. So, you know, we, we're, we're welcoming our opportunity to sit down and talk to them about it. We've been working on it already. But we certainly need to have some sort of comprehensive plan as to what kind of compensation farmers are going to get.

NK: Roger, I thank you for your time.

RC: You're very welcome. Thank you for reaching out.

TS: Roger Chevraux is a fourth generation farmer and chairman at the Canadian Canola Growers Association. We reached him in Killam, Alberta.

[cold into next story. No music]

Tariffs: Steven MacKinnon

Guest: Steven MacKinnon

TS: Steven MacKinnon is Canada's minister of employment, workforce development, and labour. We reached him in Gatineau, Quebec.

NK: Minister McKinnon, farmer Roger Chevraux says he and his, his fellow canola farmers need support from the federal government, specifically a compensation package that is not a loan program, as you heard. Will they get one?

STEVEN MACKINNON: Well, we have announced support for farmers. And as you know, it does consist of, of credit facilities through the Farm Credit Corporation. So, we obviously register what that gentleman says. And clearly, Canada will stand behind its farmers. But let us take a step back. Canada placed tariffs on Chinese steel, Chinese aluminum, Chinese electric vehicles, all of these things, of course, are not meeting, in our view, fair trade standards. We have issues with respect to labour and environmental standards in China. And Canada, as a WTO member, must always make these decisions based on fair trading principles, internationally-recognized fair trading principles, and that is what we have done.

NK: Of course, your colleague Dominic LeBlanc and Ontario Premier Doug Ford are meeting with U.S. Secretary of Commerce Howard Lutnick today. In his most recent comments, the secretary said Canada is taking the wrong approach with its biggest client and biggest trading partner. He went on from there, as you've likely heard, talking about showing immeasurable respect and saying thank you more. You've called this a bouncing ball situation in previous interviews. Is it possible that those are really the magic words that will end this war?

SM: Well, the first thing, of course, is that, needless to say, this issue can only get resolved by talking. But as Mr. Lutnick would be the first to admit, Canada abided by and intends to abide by its written treaty commitments as spelled out in the Canada, U.S., Mexico Trade Agreement. And, and the fact that we're even having this discussion is, of course, that the United States are seeking to unilaterally change the rules of the game. And that doesn't work in international trade. So, we are going to continue discussing. But as long as tariffs are put on, in our view, unwisely and unjustifiably put on Canada, Canada will respond.

NK: How are you feeling on a day like today compared to where we were last week or even two weeks ago?

SM: Well, to perhaps, Nil, strain my analogy, the ball has bounced a lot [NK chuckles] in the last few weeks. It's easy to imagine that those listening to us this evening are finding this hard to follow. It seems to change every day. We're in new categories, or new tariff levels, or new threats are issued. I think what has distinguished Canada's response is that it's no less impactful, but it is proportional. I have complex emotions about this, as most Canadians do. You know, it goes from anger to a sense of, of betrayal. But the government has, I think, dealt with this extremely appropriately. And I know that we all feel very, very confident that we can find a way -- hopefully, together with the United States -- to navigate through this.

NK: I think there are a lot of listeners, particularly Canadians, who, who really can't stomach any, any of what has gone on. We've talked time and time again with people in various industries -- businesses big and small -- and they always bring up that word uncertainty, and how destabilizing it already has been. You know very well there's, there've already been layoffs, you know, again, from, from big steel manufacturers to small furniture companies and others in between. Even if ultimately, you're able to get to a point where we avoid the worst on April 2nd, and maybe things cool back a bit, what is your message to people who are not only losing money, but losing jobs already?

SM: Well, the uncertainty is terribly corrosive, and I know that is difficult, particularly in these export-facing businesses, whether they be manufacturers or resources businesses, logistics businesses, I should mention and shout out to, to truckers, who I know are feeling the effects of this, and trucking companies. What I can say is that the government of Canada will have your back. The measures that we put in place last week to assist businesses to plan, but also to diversify the export destinations for their products, will, will help. The work sharing arrangements that we're putting in place, we're already seeing significant uptake with respect to that, which avoids layoffs and allows businesses to keep their workers and workers to keep their jobs. And if more measures are required, then more measures will be, will be put in place.

NK: So, is, I was going to ask if there's, if there is room to, to, for more measures. Because on that, that, that point that you, that you just mentioned, our guest, Roger Chevraux, was saying that many countries don't have the infrastructure to receive canola exports. So, he doesn't think that that strategy is going to help him and his fellow canola farmers.

SM: Well, with respect to increased supports, Mr. Carney, I think, has been very, very clear that he believed the tariff revenue should go first, perhaps even primarily to those who are directly affected. That would be workers, that would be the businesses that employ them. And in the case of the agriculture and farming community, or fishers on the East Coast or West Coast, those principles would remain. But our first duty, Nil, is to put to the U.S. that this is bad for their economy. And we hope that basic economic sense will, will prevail.

NK: Looking ahead to tomorrow, and what will be an important day, historic day for, for this country, but also for your government, as prime Minister Designate Mark Carney becomes the prime Minister, CBC News, our colleagues, have learned that from a source close to, to Mr. Carney, that he is planning to cut the size of cabinet by quite a bit from 37 down to 15 to 20. And we've been told, our colleagues have been told, that this is because of his, his focus on the economy and these, these tariff threats. But, but given what is unfolding, are you concerned about those kind of cuts, that kind of significant change to government?

SM: Well, you can imagine, Nil, that I'm not eager to discuss these matters. Mr. Carney, and we do look forward to his swearing-in, and to what we think will be an incredibly successful tenure as prime minister of Canada.

NK: Do you know at this point of where you will be, whether you'll be staying in this portfolio, Minister?

SM: Can I just say ditto?

NK: [chuckling] No, you could tell me what you know. That would be great.

SM: [laughing] Again, ditto.

NK: Okay. Well, Minister, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

SM: Thank you, Nil.

TS: We reached labour minister Steven MacKinnon in Gatineau, Quebec.

[ambient]

St. John’s Mosque

Guests: Haseen Khan, Paul Lundrigan

TS: For the past year-and-a-half, the former Mary Queen of Peace Church in St. John's, Newfoundland and Labrador has been mostly empty. The building is one of several Catholic properties being sold off to pay settlements to victims of abuse at the Mount Cashel Orphanage. And now, after many months, it will finally become home to a new community. The province's Muslim association has purchased the building, and is in the process of converting it into a desperately-needed new mosque. Haseen Khan is the association's president. Paul Lundrigan is a former priest of the Mary Queen of Peace church. We reached them both in St. John's.

NK: Haseen, I'll start with you. What does having this new space, given how much the Muslim community there has grown, what does this new space mean for everyone?

HASEEN KHAN: It is an exciting news for Muslims in St. John's. It was a dream of the Muslim community for a very long time.

NK: Where have people been praying up until now?

HK: We were praying on a mosque at Logy Bay Road, and that place was built in 1989. At that time,

Muslim population in city of St. John's was only 100 people.

NK: And now?

HK: And now, we have about 8,000 people in St. John's, and 10,000 people in the province of Newfoundland and Labrador.

NK: Yeah, and it's not just to pray, of course. It's to gather, as other houses of worship are. Father Lundrigan, when you first heard that the Muslim Association was interested in purchasing this building, what did you think?

PAUL LUNDRIGAN: I was delighted because I had heard so many rumors that the building, which I had served at at one point, and was my parents' parish for several decades, and it was the church from which both of them and a number of my family members had been buried from. Some have been baptized there. You know, it was just a lot of memories attached to that building for me. And I had heard that they could not convert it into any of the ideas that had been come up with for it, like a wellness centre, or a clinic, or a number of other things. And there was talk of it being torn down and the land being sold, that the land was valuable, but the building wasn't. And I was very sad about that. So when I heard that the Muslim Association of Newfoundland Labrador was looking at buying it, I got very excited because I thought this would be perfect because it would continue to be a house of worship.

NK: I think it will fill a lot of people's hearts to, to hear you say that, whatever their faith is. But I wonder, Father, was there any negative response as well?

PL: Not that I've ever heard. Myself and Haseen have known each other for a number of years. I've worked with an interfaith group called the Religious Social Action Coalition. The idea behind the coalition is that we put aside our religious differences, and forge together our common goal to serve the poor and to eliminate poverty in our midst. So, I've worked with a number of people in the Muslim Association. And I must say, like just in general conversation, I've only heard people speak very strongly in support of this community. Like Haseen was saying, they started with just a small group of about 100, but more and more have moved here, and settled here, and made their home here.

NK: That's really good to hear.

PL: A lot of people in this area are saying the same thing. I hate to see it go as a Catholic church, [NK chuckles] but delighted to see that our friends are going to be able to use it now as a place of worship.

NK: That's great to hear. Haseen, for, for you, I know, I know, you've all been looking for a bigger space. How did you decide that this church, or what was a church, was going to be the right spot for you?

HK: First of all, I echo each and every word what Paul said. For us, the most important thing, the most pleasing thing is that a place of worship will remain a place of worship. As I mentioned earlier, we have been looking for a bigger place for quite some time. And our key considerations were the capacity and the location. And this place offers both of those features. It is ideally located and it has capacity. Our current mosque can accommodate only 500 people. This new mosque can accommodate up to 2,500 people, which is five times of our current capacity. So, this will serve the needs of Muslims in St. John's area for decades to come. So, it is amazing, it is exciting, and it is really forward-looking.

NK: You know, Eid is coming up. Obviously, you know well, Haseen. Is, is everything going to be ready? Is it going to be open in time for those celebrations, or will it take a bit longer?

HK: That is what our objective is. It won't be fully ready, but we are trying to make it as functional as we can. But certainly, we have already announced to our community that we will have Eid prayers at that place. So, so the capacity is 2,500. We are expecting about 5,000 people. So, we will schedule two Eid prayers, and I'm sure it is going to be a beautiful day.

NK: And I wonder for you, Father Lundrigan. You know, you told us how happy you were to hear that they were interested in purchasing it. But as our, as our colleagues at CBC News in St. John's were reporting, you know, there will be changes, of course, made to, to accommodate the needs of the community. But the, the artifacts, the stained glass, they're going to be preserved and kept there.

PL: Yes. Yeah. Which I think is a beautiful thing as well. As Haseen was pointing out, we are all, we all trace our roots back to the major religions of Muslim, Christianity, and Judaism, trace our roots back to Abraham. Abraham, as we would say. And so, we have a lot in common. And my limited knowledge of Islam has taught me that they respect people of the book. People who have respect for Holy Scriptures, even though they don't share our traditions around a lot of the saints, and around Mary and Joseph, and the Nativity, they respect our beliefs enough that they were willing to preserve these and archive them so that they will be preserved for us for the future. And I think that's just another example of the beauty of the Muslim community, especially here in Newfoundland and labrador.

NK: What do you hope, Haseen, that people take away from what you've experienced in St. John's?

HK: I think the key message is that Newfoundlanders and Labradorians are highly kind of loving, respectful, and kind people. They show hospitality to all those who have decided to make Newfoundland and Labrador their home. That is amazing, and we cherish that.

NK: Father Lundrigan, Haseen, I'm so glad to speak with both of you. Congratulations, if that's the right word. Thank you both for your time.

PL: Thank you very much. It's great to talk to you. Good to hear your voice, Haseen.

HK: Thanks. Same here, Paul. Nice to hear your voice. [PL laughs warmly] And thanks for having both of us.

NK: A pleasure. Take care, gentlemen.

HK: Okay. You, too. Bye-bye.

PL: God bless.

TS: Haseen Khan is the president of the Muslim Association of Newfoundland and Labrador. Paul Lundrigan is a Catholic priest. We reached them both in St. John's.

[chillhop]

Poop Scooper Kid

TS: Shovelling snow. Mowing lawns. Washing windows. The time-tested pursuits of industrious kids hoping to make a buck everywhere. Except in Kamloops. Where one resident 12-year-old has begun offering a somewhat less conventional service...in hopes of raising money for a dirt bike. And it's working. George Welsh says he's scooping up cash...along with something a little…stinkier.

SOUNDCLIP

GEORGE WELSH: My name is George. I'm 12 years old.

SHELLEY JOYCE: So, how did you get experience cleaning up dog poop? Like, just working around the house, or what's your background?

GW: Yeah, I kind of just did it, like, at my house. And then, I wanted to buy a new phone, so I was asking my mom what jobs would be good. And she said, picking up dog poo in people's backyards.

SJ: And did you, did you buy a new phone with that, or is that just, you did?

GW: Yeah.

SJ: Oh, tell me about that. So, you've had some experience then?

GW: Yeah.

SJ: How much did you make?

GW: I think I made $300 the first time.

SJ: Wow! How much do you charge?

GW: It depends on, like, the size of the dog, the size of the yard.

SJ: So, you charge more based on the size of the poo, basically?

GW: Yeah.

SJ: I would too, yeah. And so, give me an example of, like, a yard like yours. How much would you charge for this yard?

GW: Probably, like, $30 or $40.

SJ: And I guess some people leave their poo for a long time, and some kind of stay on top of it.

GW: Yeah. So, I kind of have, like, set prices, just as, like, something to base it off of. But it's mostly quotes.

SJ: What are you saving up for this time?

GW: A new dirt bike.

SJ: All right. How much do you have to make to, to get a new dirt bike?

GW: $1,600.

SJ: Wow! That's a lot of dog poop.

GW: Yeah. [SJ laughs]

TS: George Welsh is a 12-year-old who is scooping dog poop for his neighbours to raise money for a dirt bike. He was speaking to Daybreak host Shelley Joyce.

[lo-fi]

Part 2: Tagish Community Centre Fire, Versace Steps Down

Tagish Community Centre Fire

Guest: Patrick Brown

TS: In Tagish, Yukon there aren't many places to socialize. The unincorporated community is about 100 kilometres from Whitehorse, and has a population of just a few hundred people. There are no bars or restaurants. But there was the Tagish Community Centre. Yesterday, in the early hours of the morning, a fire destroyed the community hub. No one was in the building when the fire broke out, so thankfully no one was hurt. Officials are still investigating, but don't suspect any suspicious activity. Patrick Brown ran the community centre for almost five years. We reached him in Whitehorse.

NK: Patrick, how did you find out that the centre was burning?

PATRICK BROWN: I actually was on my way to work in Carcross that morning, and I got a phone call from a friend who lives out in Tagish, and with some bad news and photographs that the community centre was actually in flames.

NK: What did you say and do when you heard that?

PB: Oh, I was, I was shocked. I just pulled in the work, and I think the, the initial feeling was just a myriad of emotions that came over me. And I was, it actually hit me a little harder than I thought it would. So, it was it was actually, it was pretty tough, yeah.

NK: Why were you surprised at how hard it hit you?

PB: You know, because, [chuckle] because, you know, I work in project management for the Carcross/Tagish First Nation. Like, I build homes and, and do funding applications for, for housing and government buildings. And, and, you know, structurally a building is a building. But it was, that building in specific is more than just a building to that community. It is a hub. It's a centralized location for, for socializing for people of all ages, from elders to youth. And it's just, it's, it's significant to that community as much more than just the building. So, I think it's what hit me hardest, that and all the memories that I, that I have, like, in that structure there. And it was kind of like a time capsule going up in flames there a little bit.

NK: What are some of the memories that, that are playing most prominently in your mind?

PB: Oh my gosh, just all the amazing events that we were able to pull off for such a small community and such a small building. Like, we had anything from on the land programing for youth, to organized activities, sleepovers, Nerf gun wars, and, and all kinds of fun art-based activities. We had, like, group painting sessions, basket weaving, silk dyeing, pottery workshops. And that's just for, like, youth. We started a community garden program there, where the kids actually learned to grow the vegetables. They would then cut up the veggies [NK chuckles] and serve them as, like, snacks for elders.

NK: Awe.

PB: At coffee gathering on Wednesday. And any surplus we had, they would deliver it on bicycle to elders' places in the community. And it was just such an amazing opportunity to be a part of that during my time there.

NK: A library too, if I'm not mistaken?

PB: Yes! Oh, the library was the sanctuary. [laughing] That's kind of where everybody could go, like on the days and hours it was open, during those times, like people would flock in when it was 40 below, you know, to kind of escape that cabin fever because the cabins are, in that community are pretty, like, pretty spread out. So, there's like lots along the lake. There's a place called Tagish Estates, where it's more like country residential type lots of like several acres. But yeah, everybody's pretty spread out. So, it was kind of the, you know, go in to get in touch with the outside world. And, because cell phones didn't work out there when I first moved there in 2012, so I had to give up my iPhone and get, like, a CDMA flip phone. [laughing] So, so, it really was, it really was, like, the, the centralized location of, of communicating to the outside world there.

NK: We know the territorial government is promising to rebuild and build a new facility when the community is ready. But do you have a sense of where, if anywhere, people can gather in the meantime?

PB: Unfortunately, no. In that community, Tagish is about an hour-and-20-minute drive to Whitehorse. It's about a half-hour away from the next closest community of Carcross. And, like, there is no other option. That was it. So, and it was one of those the building was aging. And, at some point, we were, we were hoping, and, and in line to get funding to build a new facility there. But as it was, we were just like, you know what? This is what we have, and we'll cherish it, and we'll make, we'll make the best of what we have now. And when that future time comes, it comes. But yeah, they, they don't have anything now.

NK: These things take, take time, obviously. Plans need to be approved, budgets, all of that, designs. But in the meantime, could something prefab or simpler just be put up? Because I'm imagining all of those, those children that, you know, grow those vegetables and cut them up, those those afternoon activities, and the gathering at the library, I mean, those are necessities for people.

PB: Yeah, I know. I mean, a lot of the youth that, that were there when I was around have now grown. And we're still in contact. And a couple of them have worked for me at the First Nation during the summer. And so, like, the community has shifted, but the needs of the people have remained the same. And so, I don't know what the solution is. I think more than anything, they're really resilient people, smart people, very talented, eclectic people in Tagish. And they'll figure it out. They'll come up with a solution. And I think that, that extended offer of help from, from the government is such a blessing. And it, it couldn't come at a better time and opportunities are now for, for the people to come together and, hopefully, make something happen for them. Because it is, it is crucial for that community to have someplace like that.

NK: And, and those now grown kids who you used to work with, have you spoken to any of them since the fire? And if so, what are they telling you?

PB: Yeah, several of them actually reached out to me. [chuckling] I like Facebook because I'm older. And it was kind of funny, it's almost like they reactivated their Facebook accounts to find me, and they were like, man, we can't believe this is happening. And, and even three of them have said, you know what? We'll offer to volunteer and help whatever it takes, like clean up or do whatever. So, that community spirit has been instilled in the young too, which is amazing. So, it's kind of like that gift of small community has been carried on in them. And now, I'm hoping that they become part of the process of the rebuilding.

NK: That is a beautiful thing in the midst of these difficult times for, for folks there. Patrick, I appreciate this. Thank you.

PB: Oh my pleasure, and thanks for reaching out.

TS: Patrick Brown is a former recreation director of the Tagish Community Centre. We reached him in Whitehorse.

[folk]

Wombat Influencer

TS: Over 10,000 people have signed an online petition in Australia, calling for an American social media influencer to be kicked out of the country. Sam Jones is a self-professed "outdoor enthusiast and hunter." But according to conservations, her recent actions showed no respect for nature. In a video, she can be seen taking a baby wombat away from its mother whilst a man filming laughs. The animal can be heard hissing too.

SOUNDCLIP

MAN: Just caught a baby wombat! [laughing] Look at the mother! It's like, oh, it's chasing after us!

SAM JONES: I caught a baby wombat. [the wombat hisses] Okay, momma's right there, and she's, let's let him go.

TS: That video has caused a strong response from conservationists and politicians...with the leader of Australia, Anthony Albanese, responding.

SOUNDCLIP

ANTHONY ALBANESE: They are gentle, lovely creatures. To take a baby wombat from its mother, and clearly causing distress from the mother, is just an outrage. And, you know, I suggest this so-called influencer, maybe she might try some other Australian animals. Take a baby crocodile from its mother and see how you go there. Take a, another animal that can actually fight back rather than stealing a baby wombat from its mother.

TS: That's Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese, responding after a U.S. influencer was filmed picking up a wild wombat.

[winding instrumental]

Versace Steps Down

Guest: Vanessa Friedman

TS: Even if you're not big into fashion, I'm guessing you've heard of Donatella Versace. Her pieces have been worn by celebrities including Penelope Cruz, Lady Gaga, and...perhaps most famously, Jennifer Lopez. Yes, I am talking about THAT green dress. And Donatella Versace is an icon in her own right. Known for her unapologetic love of heels...her platinum blonde hair..and her admitted inability to sew. But after more than a quarter century helming the fashion label with her name on it, Ms. Versace has announced she's leaving her role as chief creative officer at the Italian brand. She took over after the murder of her brother, Gianni in 1997. And will take on a new role as chief brand ambassador...which will include philanthropy and red carpet dressing. Vanessa Friedman is the fashion director and chief fashion critic of The New York Times and has interviewed Donatella Versace many times. We reached her in New York.

NK: Vanessa, brands have leadership changes all the time, as you know, including fashion houses, and even when the company bears that leader's name. But do you think Versace can be Versace as people know it without a Versace at the helm?

VANESSA FRIEDMAN: Well certainly, there are many brands that now have designers and executives at the helm that have nothing to do with the person who founded them, right? Just Gucci, Saint Laurent, Givenchy, Dior, Louis Vuitton. Those were all real people once.

NK: Tom Ford, yeah.

VF: And they now have different heirs. So, you know, clearly this brand will go on. And in a way, changing designers is a way to ensure that, right? It's, it's a forward-looking decision.

NK: Even when she took over after Gianni Versace, her brother, was murdered, even having that name Versace didn't, didn't help sort of delve the sting of, of people not accepting her at first.

VF: There was a lot of talk when Donatella first assumed the role of designer at Versace, you know, really stepping in to preserve and ensure her brother's legacy. There was a lot of talk about the fact that she had no formal training, that she had never actively designed anything, and, and a lot of doubt. You know, not least because she was also emotionally traumatized. You know, she was in an incredible amount of pain. She had been very close to Gianni. At the same time, that closeness also helped prepare her because as his muse, she had really worked with him side-by-side, and seen him, you know, from the time that brand was founded in 1978, all the way through to, to the end. So, she did intimately understand what it stood for. That didn't mean that she really knew how to construct a garment. And certainly, in the beginning, there were hiccups. But, you know, to her credit, she really kept going.

NK: She posted on Instagram, I hope I've made you proud so far. I thought that was telling. If, you know, as someone who's interviewed her, you feel that that's a sincere statement. But it's, I think it's telling in terms of that sense of feeling like you were filling in for, for the real star.

VF: I think she absolutely and always felt that way. You know, she talked very transparently every time I interviewed her and to many other people about her own issues with self-doubt. And, you know, that was also part of her appeal. You know, for all the fact that she looked almost like an otherworldly creature, you know, with the hair, and the body, and the way she dressed. She also had this very human side to her, and it made her an incredibly charming person.

NK: I loved her, she wrote in one of her recent pieces. I think it was after their last, Versace's last show, you wrote, quote, there's always been a full-frontal flirtation between elegance and vulgarity in a Versace show that makes it a blast to watch, unquote. What will the person who was set to fill Donatella Versace shoes, Dario Vitale, have to do to, to [VF chuckles] bring that, but also make it successful? Because, as you also pointed out, things have dulled. Sales aren't great. It doesn't have the luster it once did.

VF: Yeah. I mean, the, you know, Versace itself is experiencing something of a slowdown. The luxury industry at large is experiencing a slowdown. So, you've got kind of two different fronts that you've got to work on. But Dario Vitale, who is, you know, significantly younger than Donatella, and comes from a different background, very much a design background, is someone who seems to have his finger on the pulse of what is going on right now. He's been at Miu Miu as design director for the last two years when that brand really saw incredible growth. I mean, I think the revenues increased 97 per cent last year, you know? Which is kind of mind-boggling when you consider that most other brands saw a decline, you know? So, I think he's going to bring his own brand of excitement. And what we have to see, and what it's impossible to predict, is how he will interpret Versace.

NK: And what about for, for women in the industry in high positions? They're certainly, and Miuccia Prada [chuckling] -- Mrs. Prada, as people call her -- are certainly at the helm. And there are other women leading major fashion houses, but it seems to be a dwindling number.

VF: It's absolutely a dwindling number, which is an unfortunate occurrence. Last year, at this time, four of the biggest brands in the world were run, designed by women. In a couple of months, that number is likely to go down to one. And I think, you know, everyone is kind of wondering why that's going on? And, and hoping it can be rectified.

NK: What, what's your sense of why that is, as someone who has tracked this industry?

VF: I think there are a lot of reasons. Part of it's the pipeline. Part of it is the fact that fashion historically is an industry that has not really accommodated families, neither its systems or its ways of working. I mean, Phoebe Philo was the first person to ever, the first designer at a major, major fashion house to ever take maternity leave. And that was during this century, [laughing] which is kind of incredible when you think about it. It still doesn't happen very much, you know? And right now, the power structure in most fashion brands is still overwhelmingly male. Most executives, you know, most chief executives are male, and people tend to hire people who look like them.

NK: That issue is, is, is one of the reasons we wanted to talk to you today, out of, out of many. But also, whether people follow fashion or not, whether they know the Versace family, they know a couple of the dresses, [chuckling] certainly the green dress Jennifer Lopez wore all those years ago. It was the Grammys. It triggered the start of Google Images, or what would be Google Images because of Jennifer Lopez as well. The safety pin dress that Elizabeth Hurley wore, the supermodels, all of that, that sort of trickle down, or for Devil Wears Prada fans, cerulean, the cerulean effect. What is the effect on broader culture?

VF: You know, I think Versace as a brand was one of the first companies to really understand the connection between fashion and pop culture. You know, that really was Gianni Versace's insight that you could take the runway and turn it into a kind of entertainment moment. And he could, you know, she worked with celebrities. And Donatella really took that to a whole new level. You know, she herself became a celebrity, and she was friends with a lot of celebrities. They loved her because she made these incredibly glamorous sort of vavoom dresses, and they were perfect for red carpets. So, you know, I think that that brand really helped create what we now know of as the, you know, the fashion Hollywood industrial complex.

NK: [chuckling] You've interviewed her before, as, as we said. Do you have a memory of one of those conversations that, that sticks with you?

VF: You know, the thing I remember most about Donatella is how self-deprecating she could be. You know, she is kind of a caricature. You look at her and you think, my God [chuckling], like, how does a real person look like that? And she, she was fully aware of that herself, and fully able to make fun of herself at the same time as she was making these choices. And, you know, she's just, she's always just a very smart woman. And I think sometimes that she doesn't get the credit she deserves for having built Versace into a company that was sold in 2018 to Capri for $2.1 billion.

NK: Vanessa, a pleasure speaking with you. Thank you.

VF: Nice to talk to you, too.

CH: That was Vanessa Friedman, fashion director and chief fashion critic of The New York Times. We reached her in New York.

[spanish guitar]

Justin McElroy Trip

TS: I'll be honest, working in news is not always rosy. The newscycle right now...pretty crazy. We're playing tariff jenga with our up-until-recently-mostly-pretty-reasonable neighbour. We're experiencing a shake-up in our own politics. And to make matters worse, we're still recovering from the time change. Just like you, we sometimes look out the window and ask ourselves: should I just pack my bags, right now, and go? Except I'd probably go to one place. Where I'd relax. Unlike CBC B.C.'s Justin McElroy, who spent the past year journeying through 52 countries in 52 weeks. This week, he arrived back home. And, he spoke to the CBC about the wonders and challenges he encountered along the way...and the impressive amount of planning he had to do beforehand.

SOUNDCLIP

JUSTIN MCELROY: In terms of visas to bring that up, for example, and did you have to do everything? I had a list of here of the countries that I need to apply for visas. A couple of them, for Egypt, for example, I had to do in Canada before I left. A couple of them -- you know, China and India -- I could only do closer to the date itself. And, you know, being a journalist in these uncertain times, I was aware of the fact that perhaps, maybe it would get rejected. And so I had, you know, plan B's and C's in terms of where I might go. But otherwise, you know, I spent those three years beforehand creating a giant spreadsheet. You know, I did sort of the mood board of here's all the sort of things that I would like. Then I spent a while going, all right, what's the minimum number of days I could be in each of these countries and enjoy it. That turned out to be 440 days or so. So, I had to make cuts along the way. And, and, yeah, it was just figuring out, you know, about 80 per cent of the travel was done by trains, and trains are good. And there's lots of them in most countries, and they're affordable. And you can get a rail pass in a lot. So, you can go, oh, I'm going to leave tomorrow instead of today, for example. And then, you know, when you have to, I knew when I had to do planes. And you book well enough in advance or have Google alerts or price alerts to say, all right, on the day you want to leave, now it's a good price. And so to, yeah, about I would say 70 per cent, 60 to 70 per cent of it was planned before I left. And then the rest you sort of do off the side of your desk.

STEPHEN QUINN: Best train?

JM: Oh gosh! I mean, there was one that went from Oslo and Norway to Bergen, to Bodo, I should say. And Bodo is above the Arctic Circle. And this was in early July. And so, I could, you know, aside from the fjords, and the lakes, and the the amazing, the alpine setting, I could see us literally chasing and beating the sun as we're going further and further north. And suddenly, the sun is refusing to set, and it gets to like an eerie twilight that just stays there for the entire overnight. And then you're dropped off at this beautiful port city of about 55,000 people above the Arctic.

SQ: Unbelievable. And do I talk about worst train?

JM: Oh. I'm, we could. That's, you know, I've got to keep things for the rankings. [SQ chuckles] But can't Canada's are not, you know, physically Canada's are not great how to ever, you know, spending four days at the very beginning going from Vancouver to Toronto. And you go through the Rockies, and the Prairies, and the winter, and the Canadian Shield, and it feels like you're living out a Group of Seven painting was just something else.

TS: That was CBC's municipal reporter Justin McElroy speaking to Stephen Quinn on the Early Edition.

[chiptune]

Part 3: Trump: Climate Activist, RCMP Reform: Yukon

SOUNDCLIP

LEE ZELDIN: Today, I'm pleased to make the largest deregulatory announcement in U.S. history. The Environmental Protection Agency is initiating 31 historic actions to fulfill President Trump's promise to unleash American energy, revitalize our auto industry, restore the rule of law, and give power back to the States. Today, the Green New scam ends, as the EPA does its part to usher in the golden age of American success. Our actions will lower the cost of living by making it more affordable to purchase a car, heat your home, and operate a business. Jobs will be created, especially in the U.S. auto industry. And our nation will become stronger for it.

TS: That's the US EPA administrator speaking yesterday, announcing sweeping plans to dismantle dozens of environmental rules. It's a move that would include rolling back limits on how much coal-fired power plants and cars are allowed to pollute. And on top of that, Zeldin and the EPA are also promising to reconsider something called the Endangerment Finding -- a landmark 2009 regulation that underpins EPA rules aimed at managing greenhouse gas emissions and environmental pollution. Jason Rylander is the legal director of the Climate Law Institute at the Center for Biological Diversity. We reached him in Washington, D.C.

NK: Jason, how do those words and that announcement sit with you?

JASON RYLANDER: Not very well. It sounds like this administration is turning the Environmental Protection Agency into the Environmental Pollution Agency in order to support American industry. It's really insane. There have been attempts before to limit the authority of the EPA, but the scale, and scope, and the speed with which this administration is attacking environmental safeguards is unprecedented.

NK: Yesterday, in the Wall Street Journal, Zeldin wrote a piece along the same lines of some of what he said there. But he also wrote, quote, this isn't about abandoning environmental protection. It's about achieving it through innovation and not strangulation, unquote. Obviously, you disagree with all of his points, but is there a way, in your view, to achieve what he's saying this administration wants to achieve while also protecting the environment?

JR: I think if you look at what they're actually trying to do and the breadth of rules that they're trying to amend or get rid of, there's very little left that's actually protecting the environment. Much of what they're trying to do is just anti-science. They're going after the endangerment finding under the Clean Air Act, which is an acknowledgment that greenhouse gas pollutants contribute to climate change, and have disparate impacts on not just the atmosphere, but also public health. And if they get rid of that finding, then they're going to be able to go after emission standards for cars and trucks, for power plants. Even limits on mercury and toxic pollutants. This will have really serious health effects for American, American consumers. And I don't think it's going to reduce energy at all. It's really just a giveaway to certain segments of industry.

NK: We've mentioned that, that you're coming at this from a legal perspective. You're a legal director. Can this actually go ahead, these plans, legally?

JR: Well, in our system, they have to go through some processes in order to be able to get rid of these environmental regulations. So, first, they'll have to propose a rule and allow for a certain amount of notice and comment on that rule. After they consider those comments, then they'll have to publish a final rule. And, at that point, I can guarantee you that my organization and many others are going to go to court to try to preserve environmental and public health safeguards.

NK: Some industries, some businesses are happy about this change. As you know, the administration says that the cost of living for American families is going to go down because of these changes. Do you believe that that is actually true that there will be an economic benefit to families across your country?

JR: I don't think so at all. Most of these rules have already taken into account economic considerations. And also, there's a social cost to carbon pollution and toxic pollution that undoing these rules will, will exacerbate. So, what we're going to see instead is increasing rates of asthma, and heart disease, and health effects from air and water pollution. And I don't see at a time when this administration is making so many reckless and radical economic moves that any of this is going to affect American consumers positively. I mean, just, just look at what the effects of this administration and the tariffs so far have had on, on the stock market and people's retirement portfolios.

NK: We've certainly seen lots of announcements and executive orders already in the first 50 days or so from this administration, but we've also seen things walked back -- behind the scenes or in court rulings. It certainly doesn't change the overall feeling and the deep concern that people have on all of these issues, including the environment. But do you think we'll end up at a point where these policies will actually stay in place?

JR: Yeah, right now, it feels like we're drinking from a firehose. It's, you know, everything everywhere, all at once with this administration's attacks on our environmental protections and the rule of law. But I really do think that as they work through this process, we're going to be opposing these changes at every step of the way. And I think that many of these changes will not stand up in court. I simply don't see how they can get rid of the science-based endangerment finding, given all of the evidence that exists to support it.

NK: There are those who may agree with the need for these regulations, but they do feel that there's, there's room to, to maneuver to, to get, you know, wade through the bureaucracy or trim back bureaucracy in these kinds of things to, to foster innovation as, as some have said, and Zeldin included. Do you think there's room for change that doesn't take away the realities and the concerns that you have?

JR: Well, I think you have to understand that a lot of these rules that were put in by the Biden administration and by past administrations already reflect a great deal of compromise. So, the notion that environmental protections are somehow out of balance in a way that's strangling economic development just is not true. So, I mean, the real question is here, what is the role of the Environmental Protection Agency? Is it to protect the environment and public health? And are the rules, at the end of the day, that they're going to promulgate going to do that? And so, that's what we have to wait and see. But I am very skeptical that undoing all of these programs, from fuel economy standards, to emissions limits, to limits on toxic pollutions, are going to be protective of the environment.

NK: Does it feel on a day like today that, that we are taking huge leaps backwards in terms of fighting climate change?

JR: Absolutely. And it couldn't come at a worse time. I think every day, we see the evidence of climate change in wildfires, and flooding, and elevated temperatures, sea level rise. This is a moment when nations need to be leaning into the challenge of meeting the Paris Agreement and stabilizing climate. And particularly the United States, the world's historical leading polluter of greenhouse gases, has an obligation to step up and lead the way. And we are shirking that obligation right now. We are definitely moving backwards.

NK: Jason, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

JR: Thanks very much for having me.

TS: Jason Rylander is the legal director of the Climate Law Institute at the Center for Biological Diversity. We reached him in Washington, D.C.

[hip-hop]

Mini-Update: Jerusalem Book Shop

TS: For the second time in a month, the Educational Bookshop in East Jerusalem has been raided by Israeli police. On Tuesday morning, police arrested Palestinian store owner Imad Muna on accusations of selling books that incite terrorism. He was released several hours later. For decades, the store has sold books that largely focus on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict -- and the store itself serves as a gathering place for debate and ideas. When we told you about the first raid in February, two other Muna family members had been arrested. Police had stormed the shop, knocked books off the shelves and confiscated some into garbage bags. The same thing happened this time around, despite a warning from the deputy state attorney's office that said police overstepped their authority during the first raid. Now, most books have been returned and the shop reopened. And the Muna family is doubling down on its promise to stay open. As Ahmad Muna told us in February, quote "every single person in the globe is welcome in our bookshop." Unquote.

[music fades back up]

RCMP Reform: Yukon

Guest: Gina Nagano

TS: In many parts of remote Canada, the RCMP is the only police force. Which makes outgoing Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's proposal that it step away from frontline policing...complicated. In a paper released earlier this week, Mr. Trudeau advocates that the RCMP shift its focus to national issues like foreign interference, organized crime, and national security. And in places like the Yukon, that proposal is getting a mixed reception. Gina Nagano is the president and owner of House of Wolf, a First Nations community safety program in Yukon. She's also a former RCMP officer. We reached her in Edmonton.

NK: Gina, the outgoing prime minister, Justin Trudeau, is trying to, to tackle this issue just as he, as he leaves office. What do you make of that, that he's, he's handling it now?

GINA NAGANO: Oh, I think it's good that he's handling it. I think, you know, personally, it would have been great if it was handled prior to his departure, well in advance. But you know what? I think it's, it's all in good timing, I believe. You know, we've all seen the shift coming. You know, Ottawa is moving, you know, the RCMP from contract policing. And First Nations, you know, our particular communities need to be prepared for this. So, you know, this isn't about if change is coming. It's about whether First Nation communities are given the resources to lead it.

NK: If the RCMP were to step back from the kind of frontline policing that, that people are used to in Yukon, for example. What would the ideal model look like to you there in Yukon in particular?

GN: We don't want a, right now, we don't want, like, a one-size model that fits all. You know, this isn't some kind of a vague idea. We already have models that work. Yukon's community safety officer programs have been running for years, and the results speak for themselves. Like, for example, Kwanlin Dün First Nation launched their first community safety officer program in response to violence and it changed everything. Calls to the RCMP dropped, safety improved, and people started trusting the system again. Then, we went into Teslin, you know, you got the Two Deadly Aunties, they call them. The elders took the lead as community safety officers. They check on youth, support families, step, and step in before things spiral. That's what real community safety looks like for us. And in Carcross, they built their program around prevention and wellness. Like, their approach is about keeping people safe before crisis happens, and not just showing up afterwards. And you know, what all these programs have in common is that they're local, they're community-driven, and focused on prevention and not punishment.

NK: You served for two decades in the, in the RCMP. What did you see during that time that led you to, to what we're talking about here, that this is the better way?

GN: I think it is because it's more, you know, when I was in the RCMP, we were more trained around enforcement, you know? And as enforcement police officers, you know, our responsibilities were as, you know, dealing with crisis situations in terms of, you know, criminal matters at hand or emergency matters. And we were trained as frontline enforcement officers. And what I recognize is that, you know, when you get into the smaller community, and particularly remote Indigenous communities, is that community safety needs to be, you know, the forefront of the work that we're doing.

NK: The current contract with provinces and territories expires in 2032, if I'm not mistaken. Is that enough time to hammer out, you know, your, your ideal vision of what it will look like?

GN: You know, I think we do need a bit more time. You know, it's a, it's a huge transition if we're looking at another model. You know, it's not about, for us, it's not about pulling out the RCMP tomorrow and, and leaving a void. You know, we do have to plan for a shift where communities take on their safety work that we already know we can do. You know, we're talking about rightsizing the policing and not getting rid of them entirely. You know, because we do need the police, and we do need the RCMP, you know? And, you know, this is where I think we let the RCMP focus on what they do best, like major crimes investigations, while communities take the lead on their day-to-day safety.

NK: That, I think that's a, that's a good thing that you underlined there. So people can, can understand in their minds how, how you see this and how others hope in the ideal situation that this would work. There is, of course, an incoming, a new prime minister. We'll have tomorrow a federal election set to come after that. Do you feel that there's enough will in Ottawa to, to take this further, to go beyond the proposal stage and actually make this change?

GN: Yeah, you know what? I just want to highlight something that might answer this question, actually. I don't know if you had an opportunity to look at the Indigenous justice strategy that dropped on March 10th, 2025? Which is a really big deal. It's the government, Department of Justice finally put it in writing what Indigenous people, you know, communities have said or have been saying for decades: we need to lead our own justice solutions. You know, and it says for the first time, there's a national strategy that acknowledges the current system doesn't work for Indigenous people. It's a shift away from, you know, the band-aid fixes towards actual systemic change. This is more than just reform in the RCMP. It's about creating space for Indigenous legal systems, community-based safety, and justice models that actually fit the people they serve. You know, the indigenous justice strategy, RCMP reform are happening at the same time. And for us, it's an opportunity, you know, where one supports the other as the RCMP refocuses, First Nations, I think, in the communities need the, you know, need the backing to step into those gaps with real long-term solutions. What we need is for the government to look at funding these positions for long term, not just as a, you know, a one-time year fix, you know?

NK: Are you, are you worried at all that in this time of transition and focus on tariffs, and, and threats to Canadian sovereignty, that, that even though that, that, that release came out this month, that it will get lost, those promises will get lost in the shuffle?

GN: I hope not. I think it's an opportunity for the RCMP to refocus. You know, where they can, like I said, they can refocus on bigger issues, of course, like, for example, you know, sovereignty in the North, and for, for protection, etc. And realigning the needs for that, and allowing, you know, like I said, the community safety officers to be on the ground doing the day-to-day work where, you know, they can focus at the broader changes around, you know, it could be around Canadian sovereignty, for example.

NK: Gina, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

GN: You're welcome. I appreciate your call.

TS: Gina Nagano is the president and owner of House of Wolf, a First Nations community safety program in Yukon. She's also a former RCMP officer. We reached her in Edmonton.

[ambient]

‘Canada Reads’ Reading: ‘Watch Out For Her’

TS: Maggie Mac Neil is no stranger to competition. Or to the podium. But next week she'll take to a very different kind of podium -- as a Canada Reads panellist. All this week, we've been bringing you readings from the shortlisted contenders. And tonight's installment is from the Olympian's chosen novel, Watch Out for Her. The psychological thriller tells the story of a young mother named Sarah who uproots her family after witnessing something unsettling. And its author Samantha M. Bailey brings us this evening's reading.

Reading:

SAMANTHA M. BAILEY: I watch people. With a voyeur's keen eyes, I peer out the window of our rental car as Daniel pulls up to our new house at 227 Lilac Lane. This is the house we'll be living in for the next six months until we find one we want to buy. I've seen only grainy pictures of the inside. The new consulting firm my husband will be working for as a business strategist found the home for us as an incentive to bring him on board. It makes this sudden move across the country easier. Easier but still hard. At twilight, the detached two-story blends into the others on this quiet, serene street, like I hope we do. At the end of the block, there's a cul-de-sac, and a set of boxy townhouses across from a ravine. I shiver, not from the bitter mid-September chill, but because the woods feel too close. They remind me too much of everything we left behind in Vancouver. My son, Jacob, and I exit the car, our running shoes squelching in the puddles from an overnight rain. The sound centres me in the present, far from Holly Monroe, our babysitter over the summer, and the reason I agreed to this unexpected move. Daniel is ahead of us, dragging a suitcase behind him. Every few seconds, he looks over his shoulder, smiling. I smile back, but inside I'm crying over everything I've hidden from him; everything he might be hiding from me. Jacob stops in front of the three-bedroom, red-brick home looming before us. "It has eyes." His voice is flat, his body trembling through his thin coat. The wind is sharper in Toronto than North Vancouver, something else my son is forced to get used to. "The windows are the eyes, and the door is the mouth. It has no nose, though." I pull him close. A six-year-old's imagination, but still, his words haunt me. My son isn't aware of the real reason we've left Vancouver. All Jacob knows is that Daddy got an exciting new job as a business consultant in the city where he grew up, and Mommy supports Daddy. Neither my son nor my husband knows anything about the nights I hid in the thick cluster of trees outside our pool enclosure because it offered the perfect view of our babysitter's house. I wanted to be her. Holly. I wanted to be her, until I stopped trusting her. Then I only wanted to protect what was mine.

TS: Samantha M. Bailey, with an excerpt from her novel Watch Out for Her. Two-time Olympic swimmer Maggie Mac Neil will champion the book in next week's Canada Reads debates. The battle of the books gets underway Monday on CBC Radio One, CBC TV, and CBC Gem...with host, Ali Hassan. Visit www.cbcbooks.ca for more on how to tune in.

[folk rock]

Driverless Parking Tickets

TS: And now, a message from our overlords.

SOUNDCLIP

[epic music]

MAN: Well, it’s finally happening. The robots, they’re coming]

ROBOT: Hi, Avery.

[happy, upbeat music]

MAN: Hmm, maybe that’s a good thing

TS: I'm…I'm not Avery. I'm Talia. And none of that sounded like a good thing. What it sounded like is what it was -- an ad for the autonomous taxi service, Waymo. Waymo is owned by Alphabet Inc, Google's parent company. Which you'd think means someone there would have googled the rules of the road, before sending robot cars out into the streets. But if they did, apparently they missed the part about how you can't just leave your car…like anywhere. According to new reports from San Francisco’s Municipal Transportation Agency, the driverless taxis racked up 589 parking tickets in that city in 2024 alone. The fines were for things like obstructing traffic, disobeying street cleaning restrictions, and just generally parking in all kinds of places they're not supposed to be. And they added up to about $65,000. A Waymo spokesperson likened these stops to those of a regular taxi or Uber -- the driver pulls over briefly to let a rider out. They also said the company is working out some kinks. But it seems like one of those kinks may be the part where the cars have no actual human driver. A San Francisco parking control officer told the Washington Post that when ticketing Waymo cars, he gives them the same courtesy as if they had a driver. When they are parked illegally, he honks once, then twice, And when he gets no response, he places a ticket for $96 dollars on the window. And usually, right after he writes that ticket, a passenger hops in and it drives off -- none the wiser. Which if you think about it, really drives the whole point home.

The AIH Transcript For March 13

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