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The AIH transcript for March 11, 2025

For more episodes of this podcast, please click this link.

NIL KÖKSAL: Hello, I'm Nil Köksal.

TALIA SCHLANGER: Good evening, I'm Talia Schlanger, sitting in for Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[theme]

TS: Tonight:

NK: Caught in the crossfire. Ontario Premier Doug Ford temporarily suspends his surcharge on U.S.-bound electricity. The U.S. president responds, and a Quebec metal manufacturer steels himself for continued uncertainty.

TS: Policed state. A lawyer representing families of people killed during the deadly, anti-drug crackdown in the Phillippines, says some of her clients could hardly believe what they were seeing today: former President Rodrigo Duterte arrested and sent to The Hague.

NK: Levelling the playing field. Rugby Canada has a new plan to help its women's squad win -- a public fundraiser. Team Captain Sophie de Goede tells us despite their high ranking, and their skills -- that money is what could be the difference between winning and losing the World Cup.

TS: Dam-age control. A beaver named Wally has been hard at work chewing trees, building dams, and making enemies in Virginia.

NK: Vessel of history. An ancient canoe unearthed in New Zealand could hold the answers Moriori people have been looking for. Our guest tells us what the hundreds of fragments are already telling him.

TS: And...Knuckling down. An Alberta woman completes dozens of knuckle push-ups in one minute in pursuit of a world record.

TS: As It Happens, the Tuesday Edition. Radio that would give that a try...but you'd have to force its hands.

Part 1: Tariffs: Aluminum, Canadian Women’s Rugby, Virginia Beaver

Tariffs: Aluminum

Guest: Louis Veilleux

TS: A new day meant yet another whiplash-inducing chapter in Canada's ongoing trade war with the U.S. This afternoon, President Donald Trump walked back threats to double a 25 per cent tariff on Canadian steel and aluminum. The move followed a decision by Ontario Premier Doug Ford to suspend a surcharge on electricity going to some U.S. states. Speaking to reporters, Mr. Ford said he made that call after receiving one...from U.S. Secretary of Commerce Howard Lutnick.

SOUNDCLIP

DOUG FORD: It's called an olive branch. When you're negotiating with someone, they call you, and they hand over an olive branch. The worst thing I think I could do as premier of Ontario is ignore them and hang up the phone on them. I don't operate that way. I believe when someone's putting out an olive branch, we sit back. We accept it -- graciously, by the way -- thank him for that opportunity, and let's start moving. Because if we don't, just imagine all of you folks have seen how President Trump has changed things on a daily basis. I don't want to wait 'till April the 2nd. God only knows what would happen from now 'till April the 2nd. We need to get to the table as quickly as possible.

TS: Ontario Premier Doug Ford, speaking to reporters this afternoon. In the wake of the premier's remarks, the White House announced that tariffs on Canadian aluminum and steel would remain at 25 per cent…for now. Louis Veilleux is the president and founder of the Mundial Group -- a group of sheet metal manufacturing companies in Quebec and Ontario. We reached him earlier this evening in Lyon, France -- after Mr. Ford's announcement...and before President Trump's.

NK: Louis, that olive branch was extended as you heard, a temporary suspension on the electricity surcharge from Ontario on some U.S. states. What do you make of this latest development?

LOUIS VEILLEUX: Well, I agree with Ford. That's the Canadian way, I guess. Extend, taking olive branch and, and, and being nice, that's what we're good at. So, I think he did a good job there. He showed muscle and restraint, which is, is good. I think that's, that's good.

NK: So, do you think, Louis, that, that launching that surcharge and then walking it back just a day later had the intended effect?

LV: Well, I guess Mr. Trump is going to feel right at home with that. Again, it's a tough position right now to be a politician in, in North America. I think we have to say thank you to our, our politicians that are doing their best with this situation. And this situation is bringing pretty much the best out of us, all of us. Because we've been sleeping at the wheel. And now, it's time to wake up. And I think it's a good wake-up call.

NK: We should mention, we don't know for sure what was really at the other end of that olive branch, what this will mean for the tariffs placed on your industry. We are hearing some, some statements from the U.S. president just in the last couple of minutes, saying he respects the Ontario Premier's decision to, to temporarily lift this surcharge. And that he's looking at reducing tariffs on Canada. But again, we don't know what is going to go into effect. How do you keep up? And how do you strategize and prepare your teams and staff when it is constantly changing, and there is so much uncertainty?

LV: Well, I'm fortunate enough to have a great team with me for a long, long period. And even before Donald Trump was elected, we, we had the strategic plan of, of being nimble, of being flexible. And that is helping us a lot right now. And I'm in France. And I'm, next week, I'm in Germany. We're trying to, to open up new markets. And I think we're going to, we're going to come out of this stronger, way stronger.

NK: Even if the tariffs were to be reduced or lifted, are you going to stay on that course of looking for other markets?

LV: Yes, yes. You know, you, you can't be, have somebody, somebody threaten you and not taking that seriously. And it's good. It's good because the American market is still, we, we love the people we're doing business with. But again, it's not bad to have, to put your eggs in as many baskets as you can.

NK: And what are the conversations in France? What have they been like? How are they going?

LV: They're, They're talking about our poutine, so, and they're not talking about French fry. [NK chuckles] Vladimir Putin. So, they're, they're really shaking their heads. And a lot of bad words, obviously. You know, they say what are you going to do when you're going be invaded? I said, you know, I'm going to move to Switzerland. Jokingly, but --

NK: I'm glad you still have room to, to, to joke around.

LV: Well, if you cannot laugh about something, then it's, it becomes a sad thing. I'm, I'm an optimistic, and I see not glass half full of, or half empty. It's badly designed. So, you design it, you don't waste, and you got the great, the good size of glass of that's what we're working at. Having the right size of business for our business, and making sure that we're good for the next, another good 40 years.

NK: Is it just nonstop work over the last several weeks for you?

LV: Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah, quite a bit. I'm on my second shift right now. I'm in France, and I'm doing my second shift. I'll probably have four or five hours of sleep and go again tomorrow, and then on to it. Yeah, I'm not complaining. I mean, that's I, I signed up for that. You know, when you, when you're a business owner, and you, you have all these family that depend on, on your good or bad move, I don't, I don't let down because there's so many families that are working from paycheque to paycheque, having their rent went up, the gas went up, everything went up. And so, I, I feel for my people. And I don't believe in layoffs, so I, we got to do better.

NK: I'm sure your, your team members and your staff listening will be relieved. You've probably said it to them that you don't believe in layoffs, but if this war continues, this trade war continues, and perhaps even escalates, will you be able to, to hold true to that promise?

LV: Well, I'll be the first one lay off. I'll cut my salary, and lay off my self, and work for free. That's my, that's my goal. That's my, my plan. We won't touch the people making it happen. It's not that the first storm that we fold like a cheap tent. I'm not going to do that.

NK: Prime Minister Designate Mark Carney also posted on social media today, writing that his government will keep the tariffs until, quote, the Americans show us respect and make credible, reliable commitments to free and fair trade, unquote. Does what has happened today, and that kind of a statement, how does all of that sit with you?

LV: Well, we're going to see what Mr. Ford's move brings. Mr. Carney is in a different position. Mr. Ford's got a a clear mandate. Unfortunately, Canada is weakened by, by a coming up election. And again, Canadians seems to be, were before, before this, this, this attack on our sovereignty. We were quite, we were going apart. Hopefully, we'll, we'll be able to meet in the middle where, you know, we, we have Conservatives that are happy, that we have Liberals that are happy, and we try to bring Canada together. I think that's, that's the outcome I want. But I'm a dreamer, so.

NK: Louis, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

LV: Thank you. Have a good day.

TS: Louis Veilleux is the president and founder of the Mundial Group. We reached him in Lyon, France, earlier this evening.

[surf rock]

Canadian Women’s Rugby

Guest: Sophie De Goede

CH: Rugby Canada has its sights set on the top prize at the Women's Rugby World Cup later this year. The competition takes place in England in September. And Canada is among the favourites to win -- with its women's squad currently ranked second in the world. That's despite the fact that they're still amateur athletes -- unlike many of the other top contenders, which play professionally. But a new campaign is hoping to change that -- by raising one million dollars ahead of this year's contest. Sophie De Goede is the captain of the Canadian Women's Rugby team and one of the best female rugby players in the world. We reached her in Victoria, B.C.

NK: Sophie, even with Team Canada's ranking, the team skills certainly, what could happen to your chances of winning the World Cup if you don't raise enough money?

SOPHIE DE GOEDE: Well, I think they're, they're heavily impacted. Last World Cup cycle, we weren't able to, to get the funds that we needed heading into the World Cup. And so, our time together was greatly impacted. And I think that's one of the most valuable things we can have going into a big performance is just time together as a team to iron out kinks and also just continue to gel. And so, that's what the funding could, could do for us, is just allow us that time together to continue to prep.

NK: To practice and to play, like most teams do.

SDG: Exactly, yeah.

NK: The Canadian Press illustrates the differences in financial situations pretty clearly. Canadian Press reports Rugby Canada brought in revenue of $15, just about $15.5 million in 2023. England's union recorded revenue of more than $325 million. I mean, even if you're not great at math, that's a pretty staggering difference. What kind of impact -- other than, you know, just time to practice -- does that, that difference in resources have for you?

SDG: It's things like less people we can bring into camp. So, for example, we can take 32 people to the World Cup because that's funded by World Rugby. But for our prep camp, which is funded by our home union, we only have the finances to bring 30 people into camp. So, two people that will be selected for the World Cup can't be in a significant portion of our prep camp. So, things like being able to fund extra players, things like having to decide between do we have a full-time assistant coach or do we bring in a mental performance coach? And you know, we've had to prioritize rugby, but mental performance is a massive part of sport, especially at pinnacle events. So, it's just things like trade-offs. And for us, it's nothing that Rugby Canada is doing. Rugby Canada is, is very equal between men and women for us, and we are unlike many national sport unions. Our women's team is our flagship performer, but we're just pulling from a small resource pool. And so, that's why we're reaching out to the Canadian public and, and trying to appeal to them.

NK: That's interesting. You, you mentioned, I was going to ask you about funding compared to the men's team. So, it's, it's, it's, it's even?

SDG: Yeah. Rugby Canada is, honestly, has, has been on that train for quite a few years now. But it's just like I said, that resource pool that we're pulling from is small. And I think rugby is, is yet to take off in Canada. Well, I know it. [chuckle] I grew up in the rugby landscape, and I've wanted rugby to take off ever since I was little, and it just hasn't quite found its feet. I mean, it's big on literally every other continent in the country other than North America. And so, and I think rugby aligns so well with Canadian values. Like, Canadians, were hard-working, we're humble, and we just want to go chill and have a beer on the porch and kick our feet back at the end of the day. And that's, that's rugby, right? [chuckling] We work hard on the field, we tear each other off, and then we honestly have a beer with the opposition after the game and have a good time. And we're a humble, humble group, and a really strong community sport. And so, I think it has, it has every grounds to take off in Canada. And I think our performance at the World Cup could really do that.

NK: Day-to-day, what does it mean? I mean are, are your, are your teammates, are you and your teammates able to focus full-time on, on playing rugby? Or do people have other jobs?

SDG: There's a bit of a mixed bag. Over the last few years, it's transitioned to a lot more of us going to play overseas because our domestic leagues in Canada aren't professional. It's not, most of us aren't making a living wage, but we're getting room and board, and we're, we're breaking even a little bit. It's not a sustainable, long-term solution for us individually, financially, or for our country to not have a strong domestic league. But it is a solution right now that allows us to play rugby and live a bit of that professional sportsperson life and really try to optimize our training.

NK: Was it a difficult conversation or difficult to come to this point where you would ask, you know, the general public to, to, to pitch in in these tough times? How did how did you guys come to to that decision, ultimately?

SDG: For sure. I mean, and very few people like to fundraise, and like to ask for money, and ask their friends for money. But I think if we want to make the jump from two to one, we really do need this change in financial resources. Also, we're very passionate. I think all of our national women's sports teams in Canada are passionate about getting girls to stay in sport. And we really feel like the visibility that we have with this World Cup opportunity is a time where we can show and introduce young girls to our game of rugby. And for girls in Canada, there's, the hockey rules are different. The lacrosse rules are different. There's no American football. Rugby is the premier team contact sport that can really empower a young girl and bring her into feeling assertive and feeling a physical presence. And I think that's so important. And I, and I really believe that having that empowerment through sport is what's going to retain girls in sport moving forward. And I think rugby is a great vehicle for that. So, that's why we feel we need to ask for the financial resources and really make a push to perform at this World Cup. Because it could change the future of rugby in the sporting landscape in Canada.

NK: It's interesting you mentioned that because we have a conversation coming up a bit later in the show, Sophie, with a researcher from UBC about how a lack of opportunities for organized sports for girls -- in particular, in the high school years -- is part of the reason their research has found why, why boys in that same age group are more active and having less screen time. So, it's interesting to have this conversation with you now.

SDG: It's so true. And I would just say two more things on rugby. Like, it's, it's not a financially expensive sport in any way. It's not prohibitive in that capacity. And also, it welcomes people of very diverse physical backgrounds. You know, we need people in the, in the front row, in our forwards who are strong. They might not be the fastest, but they're incredibly powerful. Bigger bodies are celebrated. And then we might need people on the outsides who are really speedy, but don't hold their own in contact as much, but they're empowered to do so once they join a rugby pitch. So there's all different types of people on our team, and that's what makes it a really special sporting community.

NK: Sophie, I'm glad we could speak. Thanks for this.

SDG: Thank you so much.

CH: That was Canada Women's Rugby national team captain Sophie De Goede. We reached her in Victoria, B.C.

[hip-hop]

Virginia Beaver

Guest: Dawn Fowler

TS: In the grand tradition of 'Man vs. Nature' -- one suburban community in Virginia is finding itself at odds with a beaver. Wally, as he's been affectionately named by locals, has been chewing trees, building dams, and generally just doing beaver things. But his actions aren't sitting well with the homeowners association who were planning to have him "removed" -- that’s a polite way of saying killed. That decision sparked outrage and a petition from local residents who consider Wally a friend to the community. And thanks to the loud cries, the homeowners association is exploring a change of course. Dawn Fowler is a member of the community group Friends of Kingstowne. She started the online petition to Save Wally. We reached her in Kingstowne, Virginia.

NK: Dawn, Wally lives to see another day. Are you relieved?

DAWN FOWLER: Very, very relieved. I think everyone in our association and actually in our various neighbourhoods in this community are very relieved, yes.

NK: But there were others -- there are others -- who, who disagree with you and did not want to see Wally stick around in any form. When did you first find out that they had other plans?

DF: Probably about a month or so ago. We took the, the manager of the homeowner's association on a walk because they had expressed some concerns. And so, we walked around the area where Wally is, and discussed with him what was going on, and we offered to provide mitigation for anything that he thought was potentially going to happen that would affect the residents. I guess about two weeks later, they decided to, to go ahead with the trapper.

NK: They were going to kill Wally?

DF: Well yeah, in Virginia, you are not allowed to just relocate. You have to, if you remove the animal from where it's at, you have to kill it, yeah.

NK: So, then you got to work. More than 2000 signatures, at last we checked, on this online petition rather. Did you expect that level of support?

DF: I had, myself had been kind of iffy about whether petitions were, were something that would work. We received so many signatures, and so many from the residents, and then so many of them took personal action to spread the petition and to call and email the manager of the association. It really took me and everyone aback. [chuckling] I was so thrilled.

NK: You were thrilled. Why did you want to fight and fight this hard to save Wally?

DF: Well, I think there's a lot of us that believe that you should let nature be nature. We're losing the wonder of being able to step away from daily life, and enjoy and appreciate nature, to help us all feel better, to get away from phones, and all those other stressors. We feel very strongly. And here was a new, a new being that was at our lakes that we hadn't had before. And we were all just thrilled to have people enjoying the beaver, and for us to enjoy the beaver, and the potential benefits that his, his activity could bring to our lake.

NK: You know that, that the concerns that others had -- including those at the homeowners association -- were that because Wally's the first beaver to live in this human-made stormwater management pond, they were concerned about potential flooding, tree loss, or damaging that that infrastructure. What would you, what did you say to, to to those concerns? He did chew up 60 trees.

DF: Well, they are saying 60 trees. We are, we've asked them to really specify were they, most of them were saplings and then some dead trees. And I, I, among others, question whether he chewed up that many living actual six-inch-plus-around trees. So, there are those, yes, the, the homeowner's association. And there were a couple people in emails and comments and Facebook that, you know, it's just a beaver. Really, who cares? And a lot of people care. A lot of people care about protecting our wildlife. We all saw it as a value add in that even if people were wary about that, let's see what happens before they start doing such drastic actions. This is a very small group, this Friends of Kingstown Lake, and we had offered to wrap the trees, to to do it for them. And then, you know, give it a little time and see what happens. And they weren't, weren't, I guess they weren't interested. They wanted the problem taken care of, and they wanted to move on to other things.

NK: He, he's the first, as, as we mentioned there. Where did he come from?

DF: We don't know. Not too far from us, there's a nature preserve -- Huntley Meadows Park. And there's a number of beavers over there. He may have come from over there. He just showed up, and all of a sudden one day, people were noticing that there was beaver activity. So, he's still single, [NK chuckles] and we're, you know, [chuckling] I don't know if we want him to find a mate, he, he or she, to find a mate and start making more beavers. But we could really have problems then. [chuckling]

NK: Describe what it looks like when you look out at this lake .

DF: It's very pretty. And if you didn't know exactly where the beaver was, you wouldn't see anything that would alert you to that. As you said, it's a stormwater management system, but it's become a lake with all kinds of wildlife. And there's a paved path around it for people that's probably maybe a half mile to walk, and bridges. And it's very peaceful. It's very pretty. Many, many, many people are just, they'll go down and sit on a bench and enjoy it. And it's, it's really a plus for the community.

NK: It does, it does sound peaceful. The, the kill traps have been removed, as I understand it. The homeowners association is trying to relocate Wally naturally by demolishing his dam. What do you make of that approach?

DF: Well, it's one approach. It's not killing him anyway. That, that we're very happy about. We still think there's good things to come out of him having his dam, and being there to, to filter the water and help the water in the lake be better quality. So, it's a step. So, I really believe in the, you know, kind of not ride it out because that could be catastrophic. But, but to, to let this go for a while and see what happens with Wally. And if he relocates on his own, then that's okay. But we just don't see a reason to kill him. Poor thing.

NK: Dawn, thanks for your time, I appreciate it.

DF: Okay. Thank you very much for your interest. We, we appreciate that.

NK: Take care.

TS: Dawn Fowler is a member of the community group Friends of Kingstowne. She started the online petition to Save Wally. We reached her at her home in Kingstowne, Virginia.

[jazz]

Part 2: Duterte ICC Arrest, NZ Waka Discovery

Duterte ICC Arrest

Guest: Kristina Conti

TS: It's been a long fight for victims of his drug war. And today, their families got some big news. Today, former Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte was arrested on charges from the International Criminal Court. The ICC has accused the former leader of crimes against humanity over killings carried out when he was president and, before that, mayor of the city of Davao. Rights groups estimate tens of thousands of people died during Mr. Duterte's war on drugs. And today, many of their family members are processing the news of his arrest. Kristina Conti is a lawyer, and has represented families of the drug war's victims. We reached her in Manila earlier today.

NK: Kristina, I wonder if the families you represent ever believed a day like this would actually come?

KRISTINA CONTI: There were some who did not believe it at all. There were many, actually, who thought that we could reach this at the minimum. The further on we go, you will have less people believing that we will get a conviction. Because for many of them, they thought that the age of Duterte is a deterrent. But today, amazing just today when the real arrest of the Duterte, because there have been so many reports already, really came as surreal to most of us.

NK: It sounds like even to you?

KC: Yes. Because, as of last night, we were figuring things out. And without official confirmation from the court, which is the authorized agency or authority to talk about the warrant of arrest until as of today. There has been no announcement from the court, nothing at all. It's a sign that, well, actions speak louder than words.

NK: We're reading that, that he has been not only put on a plane, but that plane has left Manila. And that he is said to be turned over to the ICC in The Hague. Did you see that transfer happening?

KC: I think it's just up in the air right now. There's a lot of people tracking his flight. And Filipinos being the social media capital of the world, you see everybody with different screenshots. I see the, the flight trackers. I see all those who are crying, even, and supporting Duterte.

NK: We saw one of his daughters as well, tweeting about it, and people tearful as he left. It's a range of emotion that you paint there. But again, for the families you represent, can you give our listeners a sense of, of who some of those families are? What they've lost, and what they've been fighting for?

KC: Many of the mothers, we call them nanay in the local dialect. Many of the mothers lost children and husbands. And the women that have stood up after the killings have really scraped through, I mean, the depths of what they can do. Some of these women are stay-home mothers before. Now, they have had to find jobs. Some of the women, some of the nanays, have wayward sons. And now, are regretting the time that they lost with their sons, who either, and I would admit to this, some of our mothers actually admit that their children used drugs before Duterte, or to whatever degree, was involved in the drug trade. So, but altogether, these mothers that we represent now have transcended above their victimhood, and we call them now victors. They have transcended over all the difficult hardships in life, and have come together not only to boost themselves up, but also to help other mothers.

NK: The arrest warrants uses words such as widespread and systematic to describe what happened Duterte. What does that language and the other language from the ICC suggest to you?

NK: Has that shifted now in a post-Duterte time?

KC: Very little because the killings still continue. And that's been our point, even to President Marcos, who has succeeded and allowed the arrest of Duterte. We have been telling him that the killings still continue because the police force are still, I would say, perpetrating crimes on the ground.

NK: Do you think a conviction of Duterte, if that were to come, would shift things for the better?

KC: No, because we have to uproot everything about the Davao Death Squad, everything about these private armies and paramilitaries in the communities. The concept that there are private citizens or, or private individual civilians, or even the police themselves who can exact justice. Extrajudicially, the killings will continue.

NK: The Philippines withdrew from the ICC back in 2019. According to the warrant, the judges conclude that, that even with that withdrawal, the crimes he's alleged of committing that are listed in the warrant took place while Manila was still a member of the ICC. So, the court still, still feels it has jurisdiction over these crimes. Duterte himself has said, though, quote, if I committed a sin, prosecute me in Philippine courts with Filipino judges, and I will allow myself to be jailed in my own nation, unquote. What do you say to his suggestion?

KC: Well, well, it's pure bluster. I mean, there was one point when he said, oh, ICC, come get me, come get me tomorrow. I'm ready. But in the same breath, five minutes after, he would say, oh, but the ICC has no jurisdiction. So, it's pure bluster.

NK: Christina, I very much appreciate your time. Thank you.

KC: Oh, thank you very much, too.

TS: We reached lawyer Kristina Conti in Manila, Philippines.

[ambient synth]

B.C. Gondola Falls

TS: Scott Wilson had taken the day off work to hit the slopes with his son at Kicking Horse Mountain Resort in Golden, B.C. It was an unusually busy Monday -- thanks to a fresh dump of snow. But early in the day, Mr. Wilson's fun ended when a ski gondola loaded with eight passengers crashed to the ground moments after loading up. Thankfully, no one was seriously injured. But he witnessed the whole thing while waiting in line for that very same gondola.

SOUNDCLIP

SCOTT WILSON: Well, took my son out of school to go skiing. And due to the atmospheric river we had, there's lots of fresh powder. And so, we thought we'd get a bunch of runs in. And showed up to the hill early, and it seems like everyone else had the same idea. People took the day off work, and lineups were huge. So, we pulled in on top of the lift to choose which side of the lineup to get into. And just as that happened, a gondola was coming up the lift line, and it fell right off the cable just as it departed the station.

YVETTE BREND: Chills went up my spine, having swung in gondolas and thought about that scenario. What, what was your reaction as you watched that?

SC: At first, it was just shock. I turned to my son, and I was like, look at the, I can't believe this just happened. Did you see that? And we watched for a little bit. And I got a little bit of it on video, just because it was such an incredible occurrence. And we lined up for the catamount thinking, maybe, you know, even though this has happened, we can still get a few runs in. And they shut that down right away, and, and we decided to leave the area.

YB: Were there people inside? Could you see if they were okay?

SC: Well, we couldn't tell if the people were okay. But there were definitely people inside. It was a loaded cabin, completely packed base area, long lines. So, I'm sure that if, if it wasn't full, then, you know, there's still a lot of stuff inside, too. There's people's poles and gear, and a fall like that onto a hard surface, you got to imagine there's going to be some injuries. Part of me was relieved that we didn't show up earlier than we did, we didn't get in the line and didn't get on the gondola. There is concern for all of the folks that were still on board, the ones that were on the other gondola cabins that needed to be evacuated. And, of course, the folks that had just fallen off. It was complete shock, you know? Can they, can they get out? Are they all right? Is anybody hurt or broken?

TS: That was Scott Wilson of Golden, B.C., telling the CBC's Yvette Brend about the moment he saw a ski gondola loaded with passengers fall to the ground at Kicking Horse Mountain resort. The gondola remains closed today, and a full inspection is underway.

[brittpop]

NZ Waka Discovery

Guest: Hayden Preece

TS: For the people of Rēkohu, the past few months have been a whirlwind. It all began this past summer, when remnants of a wooden boat called a Waka were found on the island, which is part of the Chatham Islands archipelago in New Zealand. The discovery has led to a frenzy, as archaeologists and volunteers race to uncover what could become the most significant archaeological discovery of its kind. An initial emergency excavation has just wrapped up, but there are still many unanswered questions. Hayden Preece is chairman of the Hokotehi Moriori Trust, which represents Moriori people on the island and elsewhere. We reached him on Rēkohu.

NK: Hayden, what kind of reaction has this discovery triggered in your community?

HAYDEN PREECE: The whole island is excited, to be honest. It's, it's, it's not often on this little island of 600 people on the ocean that we have something this significant happen. So, the whole island's a buzz.

NK: And this started with a phone call that you got back in August, if I'm not mistaken. Who was on the other end of the line?

HP: So, the landowner at the northern end of the island, Vince Dix, had given me a call, and he just, he was, he was excited. And just let me know that they had found something special. And that they believe they'd found the, the remains of an ancient waka. So, yeah, he's he, he did all the right things. He contacted all the right people. And, and Ministry of Culture and Heritage in New Zealand, and got Iwi here on on board, and Imi here on board on the island. And we all went out for a look.

NK: And before you went out for a look, though, did you, I mean, did something start tingling? Did you get a sense that, that this might be something big? Or were you skeptical? How do you, you know, how do you manage those expectations and emotions when you get a call like that?

HP: In all honesty, I was, I was skeptical. I sort of thought, well, yeah, how do you know? But the moment I seen some of the pieces that, that, that they'd found, the carved remnants of, of what is definitely something very, very significant, yeah, my, my my mind just was blown, to be honest. We, we got to the far end of the island and went searching for pieces that had been washed out to sea. And I managed to find a couple of pieces. And I think at that point, yeah, there was a, there was a fire that was lit, for sure.

NK: And what, can you describe some of those pieces for our listeners? I mean, what did they reveal to you, just even those bits?

HP: I mean, there was, there was clear carved holes. Clear carving that that was of Polynesian nature. Yeah, it was wood that I have never seen here on my island before. So yeah, it was, it was definitely, it was, it was not of, not of this place. And yeah, that's, that's exciting.

NK: And you can't tell at this, at this stage, I guess, where, what place it is of?

HP: At this stage, we've, we've consented to samples being taken from the island. But yeah, we're all waiting in anticipation.

NK: This is one of three of its kind ever found. Can you give our listeners a sense of what it was used for? Oceangoing vessel, that much we know. But can you tell us a bit more about them?

HP: Yeah. Look, this is, this is one of three oceangoing wakas that have been discovered. As you say, the other two that have been discovered, they've found sort of one or two pieces. We're currently at 450 pieces. This waka will have been used as a migrational waka. It's, would have carried a huge number of people. The rough estimate we've had from conservators and archeologists is that this vessel would have, would have held upwards of 50 to 90 people.

NK: That helps create a picture in your mind's eye, I bet. I know lots of people have been helping out with this excavation just over the last several weeks, your wife included. You talked about the buzz it's created on the island, but there's also a lot of meaning in all of this. What kind of meaning does it hold for you?

HP: Oh look, I mean, for us, you're always looking for that window into your past, and we could only ever reach back so far. And you've only ever really had oral histories. And, and, yeah, this, this could not only tell the history of Moriori people on the, on on our island. But, but also, the, the entire history of the Pacific. It has, has the potential to tell the entire Pacific story. So, so, that's what makes it so significant. No one's ever seen a waka like this.

NK: What are some of the questions you have that are the most urgent for you to find out about?

HP: I think age. I think, yeah, that will that will give us a rough idea of when people were making these voyages. It will confirm some of our oral histories, Our oral histories that they're somewhere upwards of 600 to 800 years that Moriori arrived here on this island. So, yeah, that'll, that'll be a huge stamp of, yes, you're correct, that when they arrived. But also, you know, the materials will give us an idea of where it came from. The sediment that's been locked in the material can, can be identified as to where it's been and in what order it went there. So, that's, that's extremely exciting.

NK: And what do you, what do you hope will happen to these artifacts, to these remnants? Where would you like to see these pieces and the story they tell go?

HP: Well, the, the aspiration is, is that it stays here on this island. And, you know, it could be used as, for educational purposes. But also, for, it really shouldn't leave this place. That belongs here. It was, it landed here and it stayed here. And this is where it belongs. The emergency excavation is finished. So, that was, that was to retrieve the parts that were at risk of being lost to the sea. So, of those 450 pieces, the archeologists believe we're potentially only 10 per cent of the way through.

NK: And how much longer do you think the excavation will take? It's, it's painstaking work, obviously.

HP: Yeah, it's painstaking work. It's also, logistically, we're one of the most isolated populations of people on this planet. We are, our closest land mass is New Zealand, 800 kilometres away. That, that adds another variable. But, but also the fact that there's a giant sand hill sitting on top of it that's, that's had several hundred years to, to develop. It's, it's, logistically, it's, to get to here on the island, is, it's, it's in a very tricky spot that's only really accessible during the summer months or when it's dry. So yeah, this could take years. We could be here for years until we see the, the entire waka.

NK: And it sounds like you're willing to wait, though? You're okay with that wait?

HP: Well, I mean, I think it's, it's got less to do with us and more to do with the waka itself. It's. It's waited all this time to reveal itself to us, and I'm pretty sure it can wait a little bit longer.

NK: Hayden, a pleasure speaking with you. Thank you.

HP: Yeah, pleasure. Thank you very much.

TS: Hayden Preece is chairman of Hokotehi Moriori Trust. We reached him on Rēkohu in New Zealand's Chatham Islands.

[funky beat]

Most Knuckle pushups

TS: Look, I think I speak for most of us when I say pushups are tough. And finding ways to actively make them less comfortable than they fundamentally are seems...excessive. Not for Christy Starling, though. The Medicine Hat woman recently completed 78 pushups -- and she did them all in under a minute. Oh yeah! Also, they were knuckle pushups. And Ms. Starling is hopeful the feat could earn her a Guinness World Record.

SOUNDCLIP

CHRISTY STARLING: Seventy-eight. I wish I could have done better. I know that sounds terrible. I mean, I still had five seconds left. My body just could not do it anymore for some reason.

LOREN MCGINNIS: You likely just set the record. As we say, Guinness has to verify it. But you're being hard on yourself, saying in that five seconds, I should have squeezed out a few more.

CS: Right. I know! My coach always tells me, he goes he usually has to tell people to go forward. He has to always tell me to take a step back. And that's really hard to do. I, I just, yeah, I don't know. My goal for my next one is, so I was looking at the record. And it's actually not 1,500 in one hour. It's actually 1,200 for most knuckle pushups. So, I was looking up that record yesterday. So, that's doable. For me, that's only like 21 a minute, I feel. So, that's going to be my next goal. I'm going to start working on it. [chuckling]

LM: Listen, I was sitting here thinking, you know, she's in amazing shape. She's super strong. She's spiritually tough. That's how she handles this. But it is only 60 seconds. Now, your next goal might be an hour's worth of these things?

CS: Yes.

LM: Holy smokes, Christy.

CS: Go, go hard or go home.

LM: Hey, what is it, like, you know, you're, you're hard on yourself. I heard that off the top, but, make it positive. Like, what is it about you that makes you want to reach for these goals and push yourself this hard?

CS: Okay, so I am a child and youth care counselor. Well, I'm in practicum right now. I am working with the FASD unit, unit at McMann. And since September, they have really touched my heart, the participants in the program. And my next thing is to do bigger for FASD awareness. I kind of brought it up a little bit, but that's kind of the drive right now, is to really get out there and tell people you can really, sorry, I'm kind of going to be in tears a little bit because it's an amazing program that I've been working with. And I came from a really bad spot. In 2013, I was in a bad car accident. I used to work out before then. And I quit working out, and I really got into a bad spot. I am driven by just, like, you know, it doesn't matter what you go through or what kind of pain you have, you can do anything you put your mind to. And I truly believe that now, after seeing all this, and doing all this, and people, this amount of support from around everywhere has been absolutely amazing. So, yeah.

TS: Christy Starling has attempted the Guinness World Record for most knuckle pushups in under a minute. She was speaking with Loren McGinnis on the Calgary Eyeopener.

[classic rock]

Part 3:UBC Teen Habits Survey, ALTA. Newspaper Closure

UBC Teen Habits Survey

Guest: Eva Oberle

TS: Screentime is a concern for many parents. And new research suggests that it's not just potentially harmful in and of itself. When it goes up...time spent on things like sleeping and exercising appears to go down. Researchers at the University of British Columbia surveyed 29,000 middle schoolers across the province, and found that many of them do not meet any of the province's recommendations around rest and physical activity. Eva Oberle is an assistant professor of early learning partnership at UBC and the study's co-author. We reached her in Vancouver.

NK: Eva, what made you want to do this research in the first place?

EVA OBERLE: So, well, a couple of things. I'm a mother. I have children. I know how hard it is to get children off their screens and to stay active. So, that's kind of one of the things that really sparked me to do this research. And also, you know, I've been a researcher on positive mental well-being for a long time, and I'm really always looking for actionable things that young people can incorporate into their day-to-day life to support their mental well-being.

NK: It's, I think, part of, part of what your findings reveal may not come as a surprise to, to other parents. But, the reasons for it at least, but the numbers themselves might, might catch people off guard. You know, they know that there's an issue with this sort of thing. Why did you, did you want to underline this?

EO: Yeah. So, I mean, if you think about it, I mean, it's pretty it's, it's pretty basic, the recommendations. The recommendations are, like, eight to nine hours of sleep per night, an hour of physical activity per day. And physical activity doesn't need to, that doesn't mean that they need to exercise fully for an hour per day. It really just means being physically active. And that could be, for example, biking to school and back. That already gives you a physical activity. And no more than two hours of recreational screen time per day. So, for me, it was really surprising to, to see that only four per cent of children are actually meeting all of these guidelines. These guidelines are really important because they are related to physical health and also to mental health, mental well-being. And I think, especially during a time right now where a lot of young people are struggling regarding their mental well-being, it is something really actionable and straightforward that we as a society can support and promote to enhance mental well-being among young people.

NK: And what did you see, Eva, in, in the students who were getting a better balance of activity and screen time?

EO: Yeah. So, what we saw is that young people who were meeting these recommendations, so who basically got enough sleep, and they got enough physical activity, and they were not more than two hours a day recreationally on their screen, those children were doing better regarding their mental well-being. So they felt more optimistic. They felt happier. So, satisfaction of life, that was the measure that we used here. So, they felt better about their lives, and they also had lower levels of depressive symptoms. I think what's important to keep in mind here is that these are not independent activities. They're interrelated. They're all health behaviours. So, if you think about it, being physically active also helps you get a better night's sleep. Being long hours on your screen, especially in the evening, actually prevents good sleep, good quality sleep, and also prevent, prevents getting enough sleep. So, just I think what's important to, to highlight here is the interrelatedness of the health behaviours. And often, promoting one also really helps us to promote others. So, if we can get kids to be physically active, often this means that kids are outdoors more then. They're also among other people in person, and so on. It helps them stay off their screens, and helps them to sleep better at night.

NK: It's good advice for adults, too. Let's, let's be clear. [chuckling]

EO: That's right. Absolutely.

NK: One of the other things we noticed as we were looking at your findings are the discrepancies between genders. What, just tell our listeners what you saw initially/

EO: Yeah. That's, you know, that, that's, the gender difference was, yeah, it was quite interesting. And that's a really good question why we see that? So, when you, so basically, what we saw was that girls were much less likely to meet physical health recommendations compared to boys. So, boys were more likely to meet the physical health recommendations, the physical activity recommendations, and they were less likely to meet the screen time recommendations. But also, if you think about it, regarding kind of like the social norms. So, social norms for boys to be identified as athletes, and to be kind of physically stronger, much stronger than, than for girls. And there is also, you know, right now, if you have girls who want to play on a competitive sports team, in some disciplines at least, there is sometimes no competitive team. Sometimes they join boys teams then. So generally, the opportunities tend to be better there for, for boys. And more established infrastructures around them, especially around, like, competitive sports for boys.

NK: In 2025, we're still having this conversation. [chuckling]

EO: Yeah.

NK: About, about sports for, for, for young women. You know, what about, what about gym class, PE? I mean, I never loved it, to be honest with you. [chuckling] I know a lot of people don't -- boys or girls. But, because it often wasn't a fulfilling or fun kind of activity. It seemed sort of just put on us, and, and was more stressful than relaxing and, and fun. But what are the state of those programs? Because shouldn't, shouldn't their, shouldn't their requirements -- or suggested, you know, activity levels -- be covered by that? Isn't that the point?

EO: Yeah. And we definitely see that at the elementary level, where PE is really firmly integrated into elementary schools. There is some, I mean, some schools actually do have daily PE. Not all of them do. But I would say at the elementary level, there is regular opportunity for physical activity through PE classes, and also through, you know, often the elementary school playgrounds are quite engaging. And kids can be outside. And they have really stimulating environments to be outside. Not for all schools, so it really depends also on the built environment that the school has. But at least, I would say generally at the elementary level, there's a bit more emphasis on that. Once we move to the secondary level, this kind of changes. So, if you look at the, at the high school, some, first of all, some high schools now, they follow a semester system. So, some high schools, at least in B.C., follow a system where you have a course for, for the full term, and then you don't have it at all for the rest of the year. So, half of the year PE, and then half of the year, no PE at all. That is something that I think especially for, for young people who, you know, who don't tend to be physically active as much, that gives them really long stretches without that habit of regular physical activity.

NK: Eva, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

EO: Thank you very much. Bye.

TS: Eva Oberle is an Associate Professor at the University of British Columbia -- and co-author of a new study on teen behaviour, published in the journal BMC Public Health. We reached her in Vancouver.

[dancehall]

Montreal Gaelic Team

TS: The Montreal Shamrocks Gaelic Athletic Club promotes Irish sports, including hurling and camogie that usually take its members to competitions in the US. But not this year. Orla Mahon says that as invites for events south of the border started pouring in, one thing became clear: many members weren't feeling safe. Especially those who identify as 2SLGBTQIA+. Ms. Mahon is the registrar and a member of the club. She told the CBC about how they ended up making that call.

SOUNDCLIP

ORLA MAHON: I don't think it's a secret that the 2SLGBTQIA+ community has been targeted through several different ways. And it was members of that community that brought it up. But then, that was the first straw on our awareness. But there were other members who echoed, you know, maybe with regards to gun violence or other trade policies, and it eventually became clear that it was multiple factors at play here, while the original one that we had identified was that.

SABRINA MARANDOLA: Once these issues come up, and you're aware that there are concerns, then what? What was the thought process like to ultimately come to the decision that, you know what? We're just not going to go at all.

OM: You know, we sat down and had a conversation about whether that was something to consider? Whether it was going to be club wide? All these sort of things. And eventually, we came to the decision that as a club, what we want to do is support our members and make sure that we are protecting them in whatever way we can. And with an active and abundance of 2SLGBTQIA+ members, the decision was made with the aim to support and to protect them.

SM: Did you get any pushback to that decision? And say, you know, why, why is the whole club refraining from going?

OM: So far, the vast majority has been positive feedback, both on social media and from personal messages from clubs. We want to reiterate that this decision is solely about our own traveling. We are still looking forward to welcoming U.S. clubs to our own tournament, and we're eager to find ways to strengthen those ties with them as well that don't involve us putting our community members at risk. So, we're still looking into, you know, how we can do that in the long term. But for these tournaments in particular, this is the decision that we have come to, yeah.

SM: With just the, the Trump administration and U.S. President Donald Trump, he'll be in place for four years. What will it take, what do you feel you or the club will need to see in order to return to, to competitions in the States?

OM: I think it's been such a wild ride, even just the last month or so. That's going to be something that we'll really have to take on a case-by-case basis. And, and it will really depend on what comes out of the U.S. That's not something we can say blanket we need x, y, z thing. We'll really have to play it by ear as it comes.

TS: That was Orla Mahon, the registrar of The Montreal Shamrocks Gaelic Athletic Club, speaking to Let's Go host Sabrina Marandola yesterday.

[funk]

ALTA. Newspaper Closure

Guest: Joyce Webster

TS: The East Central Alberta Review has been around since 1911. But in just a few weeks, the newspaper's more than century-long run, will come to an end. Joyce Webster says she simply can't find a buyer...or keep up with a changing media landscape. She is the owner and the editor of the newspaper. We reached Joyce Webster in Coronation, Alberta.

NK: Joyce, how did the morning go? I know, I know, you were working on the paper.

JOYCE WEBSTER: It was a busy morning, but I managed to get the last pages approved about 10 minutes to go on the press. [chuckling]

NK: Oh phew! A relief, but is it a bittersweet relief at this stage?

JW: It is bittersweet, that is for sure. It's, it's okay for me. I'm at the age of retirement, but it is certainly, I feel for the communities that are going to lose a community newspaper that has been well-liked.

NK: And what about your team? How are they feeling?

JW: They're feeling pretty, yeah, pretty sad, too. We were, certainly tried our best to try and find a buyer for the newspaper, but people just aren't buying newspapers these days. So, so, unfortunately, a couple of them will be looking for new jobs.

NK: And how many people are on your team now?

JW: We're down to, actually, three full-time people and four part-time people that were with us. But that's down considerably from what we were. We usually averaged around 11 to 15 staff at one time.

NK: Yeah. What changed? You know, the pandemic was a, had a big impact on a lot of offices, obviously. Was that part of it?

JW: That certainly was part of it.

NK: If we go back in time just a bit, Joyce, what do you remember about walking into the offices of the paper some 44 years ago?

JW: [warm chuckle] Yeah, it was kind of unknown to me. Never would have I dreamt to have been walking into a newspaper office, but I enjoyed typesetting and the receptionist position, so that was fine. It's just when, after 4.5 years, when it came up for sale, I was devastated if I was going to not be in the business. So, I was really, I was really happy to be able to purchase the paper at that time.

NK: So you went from, I never imagined setting foot into the office of a newspaper to becoming the owner just five years later. What should that tell us about how you came to, to feel about the business?

JW: Well, I think newspaper business is all about community. I was born and raised in Coronation. And I loved the town. I would like to see it grow. And I felt that after knowing how valuable a newspaper was to a community, that it was exciting. I didn't want to quit.

NK: And you said you never imagined, why not? Why was that not in your plan?

JW: Well, I thought it was going to be a rancher's wife, actually, but that wasn't in the plan. So, I was looking for a job because my two youngest boys had started school. That job happened to be advertised in the Review that week, and when we moved from the ranch into town. And so, I got accepted and went from there.

NK: And you, just what you said there about even seeing the ad for the job, says something about the connection the newspaper has in the community and what it was able to offer. The majority of your readers are in rural Alberta. How did you serve that community? What are the things that you look back on over your decades as owner and staffer that illustrate that connection?

JW: Well, I think the biggest move that we made, and the most important move that we made, is when we went from the 1,200-page subscription newspaper to an extended coverage newspaper, where we reached 26,000 homes. And the reason is because our businesses in these small communities, we knew needed to reach farther abroad from their small community to survive. And I had the really good business people in coordination at that time that expressed that to me. So, it was a matter of we needed to do it to help these small communities to survive. So, that's how we gravitated to the free distribution regional.

NK: Just to be clear, we're talking about a real newspaper, the one you hold in your hands.

JW: That's correct, yes. Not that we aren't up online as well, but people still like their paper in their hand.

NK: Absolutely. Was staying just as a strictly online model something you considered? Was that financially feasible at all?

JW: No, not at all. The big corporations, the big three or four corporations have that revenue from online all tied up. We tried for many years. In fact, we'd been online with advertising models, with the entire paper online, and there's just no revenue there.

NK: How were you able to hang on as long as you have?

JW: You know, I could always just make the bottom line black at the end of the year up until last January, when Canada Post changed its regulations on not allowing the consumers choice boxes to receive advertising fliers in our paper. That cut my revenue about another $24,000 off my bottom line. So, it became quite, unfortunately, quite obvious that we weren't going to be able to continue.

NK: What have your readers been telling you as you broke the news?

JW: Oh yes, my, my emails and my phone has been very busy. I knew that there would be a lot of disappointment. We've had so many readers tell us over the years how much we like our newspaper, our opinion, researched opinion pieces, etc. And there's going to be a lot of disappointment. And I probably delayed retiring a long time because I just thought I can't disappoint all these readers.

NK: Awe. So, so, how are you feeling now? Are you ready?

JW: Well, I'm certainly ready to retire. [chuckling]

NK: What are you going to do with, with your free time now?

JW: Well, I've always enjoyed the outdoors, gardens, flowers. Traveling has been another important part of my life. And also, I've always thought I'd like to volunteer as a newspaper covering all the events and all the volunteer groups in, in the communities and that. I always thought, gee, I'd like to make time for that.

NK: So, you'll still be connected to the community no matter what?

JW: Oh yes. Yeah, part of my life, all my life.

NK: Joyce, I'm glad we could speak. Thank you.

JW: Thank you very much.

TS: Joyce Webster is the owner and editor of the East Central Alberta Review newspaper. We reached her in Coronation, Alberta. We also reached out to Canada Post for comment about her concerns. In an email, Canada Post partly wrote that their, quote "longstanding Consumers’ Choice program gives Canadians the choice to opt-out of receiving unaddressed advertising mail, including commercial flyers or inserts separately in community newspapers,"unquote. It added that Canada Post recognizes how community newspapers connect communities and businesses, and that the policy change was quote "made to better align with Canadians’ request to not receive unaddressed print media from Canada Post," unquote.

[acoustic guitar]

Reading: ‘Canada Reads’ ‘Dandelion’

TS: Twelve-point-six million butterflies sounds like a lot. But a team of researchers says their decades-long count of the winged insects actually reveals a hugely troubling decline in their numbers. According to their newly published analysis of more than 76,000 separate surveys, butterfly populations are plummeting across the United States. Between 2000 and 2020 alone, the number of butterflies across the country is believed to have fallen by 22 per cent. And that's not all. The researchers also say that the so-called "insectageddon" threatens other species too -- including our own. Elise Zipkin is an ecology professor at Michigan State University and one of the study's co-authors. We reached her in East Lansing. Michigan.

NK: Professor, I know that, that you were expecting that there might be some bad news here, that there would be some declines. But in terms of the magnitude, once you took a look, how did you and your team process that?

ELISE ZIPKIN: Yeah, I think there were a lot of different studies that had been showing kind of piecemeal declines in specific regions or specific species of butterflies. But we were surprised overall, you know, by the extent of the declines. And we really felt like, yeah, this should be a warning. This should, we should be sounding the alarm that something's very troubling here.

NK: And the magnitude of it, I mean, just emotionally. I know you're scientists, but emotionally, how did that hit?

EZ: Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of evidence, you know, that perhaps we're entering the sixth mass extinction. And so, you know, a lot of my work has been showing declines of species. And, you know, it's just, it's kind of this situation where, yeah, it, it can feel really, it can make you feel really down. But I always try to focus on what we can do and what can be done. Because I still think there's a lot that can be done to protect butterflies and insects more generally.

NK: In terms of the count itself, the work that you did, because it is quite comprehensive, how did you and your team execute that?

EZ: What we did is we worked to aggregate all the available regional data sources. So, that was about 35 monitoring programs that were taking place across the country. And most of those were done by volunteer scientists, so participatory scientists. So, those are just individuals that spend their time going out and counting butterflies. And we had, I think, about 12.7 million individual records of butterflies when we aggregated all the data. And then once we got the data, we had to think about what kind of analysis to do. And then once we did that, we developed a model that took into account all those pieces to try and estimate an index of abundance. You can't really know what abundance is, you know, for something that's so ephemeral, like butterflies. So, what we really want to know is, okay, can we make some sort of index of, of what that abundance might be at a certain point in time at a certain location? And then, can we see how that might change through time? And so, doing that we were able to look at, all right, what are the trends for butterflies over this 20-year time period?

NK: And ultimately, what do you think is behind the decline you're seeing in the butterfly populations?

EZ: Yeah, unfortunately, in our analysis we couldn't get at that. But there is a lot of other work that has pointed to three main reasons of butterfly declines. So, the first is climate change. So, changing climate conditions. Butterflies, like other insects, you know, are invertebrates. And their development is largely based on the right temperature, precipitation conditions. So, changes in that could really have a big effect about, you know, how many individuals can get out a year. The other reason is loss of habitat. So, that would be through land use change and development. And then finally, the last one is pesticide into insecticide use, which can cause mortality, you know, cause, cause insects including butterflies to, just to die.

NK: You know, I've, in recent years, I've seen programs and initiatives, small scale, you know, telling people to, to, to plant certain kinds of plants, and draw butterflies, and help the monarch butterfly population in particular. Are those kinds of efforts not working, or are they just too small to combat the scale of what you're seeing?

EZ: Well, that's a great question. I would say those efforts are hugely important. And, you know, people, one thing that people can do is plant native species in their yards. I mean, we know that kind of that standard green lawn that a lot of us have across North America can be kind of a, a biodiversity desert in some ways, right? We can, there aren't as many species, and there's not as much diversity in those areas. So, planting native species in your yards really can make a big difference. And even, you know, in small local parks, right? Just thinking about butterflies, they can move around, so they can find those habitats. But I think you're right to also point out that that alone is not going to be enough, right? We need, we need our leaders, frankly, to, you know, enact policies that are going to be good for butterflies, good for insects, but good for biodiversity more generally, you know, in terms of curbing, curbing climate change. And also, curbing, you know, the use of insecticides. You know, there's a, a class of insecticides called neonicotinoids. And those are basically a coating on all different seeds, right? So, for like corn and soybean production, and there's a lot of evidence that those insecticides leach into the soils and then, you know, can cause mortality to anything, you know, really around it. So, you know, these neonicotinoids, they don't necessarily increase, you know, yield for crops and soybeans. So, we kind of can think about ways of more regulating those that would be a little bit more effective.

NK: There's always a domino effect when you see declines like this, specifically in terms of butterfly populations. If we don't manage to to change course on this, what will that, what dominoes are, are going to fall? What will the impact be?

EZ: Yeah. Right, so insects and butterflies are really important to ecosystems. They help, you know, transfer energy flows. They provide an important food source to many other, to many other organisms in our ecosystem. So for example, they feed birds at many different stages, at caterpillar egg stages and even as adults. And they're also important for crop production. So, they contribute greatly to cotton production in the southeastern U.S., so it's hard to say exactly what would happen. But I would expect that if we continue with these kinds of declines, we would be likely to seeing other other declines in other higher taxonomic groups. So for example, several years ago, there was a paper that talked about the loss of 3 billion birds. And that decline, those percent declines per year really are very similar to what we saw with butterflies. So, I think that goes to show that kind of what's happening with one group is really potentially impacting other groups as well. So, everything is related and we need to be thinking about that aspect of it.

NK: Professor, I appreciate this. Thank you.

EZ: Yeah. Thank you. I appreciate you taking the time.

TS: Elise Zipkin is a professor at Michigan State University and co-author of a new meta-analysis of butterfly populations, published in the journal Science. We reached her in East Lansing, Michigan.

[country]

‘Canada Reads’ Reading: ‘Jennie’s Boy’

TS: If you've ever watched or listened to Canada Reads, you'll know that each panellist brings something very different to the defence of their chosen book. Athletes bring a uniquely competitive spirit. Actors...a flair for the dramatic. Musicians...a sense of the craft behind any great art. But as a New York Times bestselling author himself, Linwood Barclay has particular insight into what makes his selection, Jennie's Boy, exceptional. He'll champion the memoir next week in CBC's annual battle of the books. And this evening we're bringing you a reading by its author Wayne Johnston. Mr. Johnston grew up in Newfoundland and Labrador -- where he spent months plagued by illness, unable to attend school. Months spent in the care of his deeply religious...deeply eccentric.... grandmother, Lucy. From Jennie's Boy, here's Wayne Johnston, with his retelling of one of their many, meandering conversations....

Reading:

WAYNE JOHNSTON: So, what's the news from home? I told her what Dad and Jennie talked about during the housewarming party. She said they shouldn't make fun of the house. Maybe it wasn't a palace, she said, but it would do until our palace became available, which might be a while because of the long waiting list for palaces in Newfoundland. I told her Dad had said something about a winter palace in Russia, and asked where Russia was. She said she was fairly certain that Russia's location was the same as it had been since my father read about it in some book. It was probably farther from Newfoundland than Nova Scotia, which was as far from home as my father had ever been. Unable to think of any other way to stand up for Dad, I reminded her that he spoke Latin. She said not unless he had picked it up from palling around with priests, which was unlikely. Because father McGettigan had been trying and failing for years to find someone to go bowling with. Your father remembers bits and pieces of Latin that he learned in school, from teachers who remembered bits and pieces of Latin that they learned in school. That chain goes all the way back to when, for some reason, everyone spoke Latin. She didn't know why priests had to learn Latin, but she was glad they weren't singing the Mass in Latin anymore. Because it made for a nice change to understand what they were saying, even though they sang just as badly in English as they had in Latin. She said that Christ would have suffered more if, instead of making him endure the crucifixion, God had made him listen to father McGettigan singing about it. She crossed herself, seven years to become a priest. You'd think the church could spare one year for singing lessons. She crossed herself again, and bowed her head, and mumbled another prayer. I asked her if she confessed to father McGettigan the things she said that were so sinful she felt she had to cross herself. I'd be in the confession box day and night if I did, she said. McGettigan wouldn't understand anyway. He never starts off a sermon with have you heard the one about. It's better for me to tell God on the spot that I'm sorry for what I say. Not that Christ was in the habit of making jokes that cracked up the apostles. She crossed herself again. After the quick came my bath, which he gave me while I was standing up. The proper way to bathe a child, she said. Though Jennie had once said it was just a holdover from the days when Lucy had bathed her own children in a washtub in the freezing porch. As she poured jugs of soapy water over my head, telling me to keep my eyes tightly closed. She did a running critique of my emaciation. She enclosed my wrist with a circle of her thumb and forefinger. See, I'm not even touching you, she said. That's how skinny you are. I told her she had warned me to keep my eyes closed. So, how was I supposed to see? Your mother must have tried to pay for you with expired coupons, and had to give half of you back. You're so skinny, I can see your soul. I asked her what it looked like? It's even paler than the rest of you. Not a mark on it. Except from original sin. Like a scuff mark from a boot. Like your forehead on Ash Wednesday. Except the mark of original sin wouldn't come off if you used all the Javex in the world.

TS: Wayne Johnston, reading from his Canada Reads nominated memoir, Jennie's Boy. The book will be championed in next week's debates by bestselling novelist Linwood Barclay...and we'll be featuring readings from all the contenders on the show this week.

The AIH Transcript For March 11, 2025

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