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The AIH transcript for February 19, 2025

For more episodes of this podcast, please click this link.

HELEN MANN: Hello, I'm Helen Mann, sitting in for Nil Köksal.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[theme]

CH: Tonight:

HM: Harsh reality. In December, a Canadian woman was arrested while appearing on a reality TV show in Sierra Leone. Her daughter says she's being held in inhuman conditions -- and Ottawa needs to step up and step in.

CH: The not-so-grand scheme of things. The former president of Brazil, Jair Bolsonaro, is charged not just with a secret plan to seize power -- but also participating in a plot to kill his political rivals.

HM: War of words. Volodomyr Zelenskyy calls for "more truth" from Donald Trump -- who responds by calling him a "dictator". All of which is very disturbing to our guest -- one of the millions of Ukrainians caught in the crossfire of the ongoing war.

CH: Downhill fast. First, she climbed to the top of the highest peak in the Canadian Rockies -- and then, in a move that was literally trailblazing, she skied down the other side.

HM: A good moose/bad moose scenario. A B.C. woman opens her door to find herself face-to-face with a moose. Which was exciting -- except that it refused to leave.

CH: And...following suit. Scientists discover that a scaly creature called the "sea bream" can actually tell humans apart by their diving outfits. Which may sound a bit fishy -- and is.

CH: As It Happens, the Wednesday Edition. Radio that learns sea breams are made of this -- who am I to disagree?

Part 1: CDN In Sierra Leone, Mount Robson First Descent, Moose At Door

CDN In Sierra Leone

Guest: Alicia Hunt

CH: In November 2024, Hawa Hunt travelled from Canada to Sierra Leone to participate in a Big Brother-style reality TV show. She's a dual citizen -- and she was hoping to win the grand prize of a house, a car, and cash. But instead, she was arrested on live television. Video had resurfaced on social media of Ms. Hunt making comments about the president and first lady of Sierra Leone. She was charged with Quote "transmitting insulting messages via a computer system". Unquote. And according to her daughter Alicia Hunt, she's been held in horrific conditions ever since. The 20-year-old is pleading with the governments of Sierra Leone and Canada to get her mother out. We reached Alicia Hunt in Banff, Alberta.

HM: Alicia, what was your most recent conversation with your mother like?

ALICIA HUNT: My most recent conversation with my mom was after I woke up to posts saying that my mom had been killed. So, I asked the honorary counsel to go check in on her for me. And he went, and I was able to have a very short video chat with her that was, you know, very emotional where it was like, just thank God you're alive. Oh my goodness. And she was like, I'm so sorry, but you had to, like, see a post like that. I'm, I'm okay. I'm alive. That was our entire video chat, around 30 seconds.

HM: And when was that?

AH: That was last Friday.

HM: I can only imagine how shocking that news must have been, and how relieved you must have been, too.

AH: Absolutely.

HM: She is being held, your mom, Hawa, in a prison in Freetown. Tell us what you know about the conditions there.

AH: It's called Pademba Road Prison. Many in the prison have to sleep on a dirt floor, which my mom was for most of her duration in there. There is a bad bedbug problem as well as mosquito problem. There's also a large scarcity of food, as well as clean water in the prison. They're provided two very small portions of food during the day. However, this food that they're providing apparently makes everyone sick, so people would rather starve in there.

HM: So, do you know what her condition is like right now, health-wise?

AH: I don't think her condition is doing very well. Her lawyer is trying to push for her to be able to be released to go see a doctor. What I do know is when I have been able to video chat with my mom, her face does look sunken in. As well as she is covered in bedbug and mosquito bites. So, we would like for those to be able to be checked as well.

HM: There were also reports that she had been beaten.

AH: Yes. Yeah. Over video chat with my mom's lawyer, she disclosed this to me, saying that they are regularly beaten in there by prison guards. And she said she kind of like tried to, you know, laugh it off, saying, you know, but it's normal here in Africa, which is, you know, very concerning to me. And this was what she could disclose to me over a video call that was being watched over by the prison guards that were there. So, if that's all she can tell me while she's being supervised by these people, who knows what else they're doing to her behind closed doors?

HM: Yes. Now, your mother, soon after her arrest, was seen on a video on which she apologized to the president and his wife. And she said on that that she was being treated well. What do you make of that?

AH: I do believe that my mother was forced to make that video. You know, just as her daughter, I can tell, like, that is not how my mother usually acts. I could see in her eyes that she definitely was not okay. You know, I do believe that, yes, my mom is sorry for using any kind of cuss words against the president and the first lady. However, that video is extremely concerning. None of her family had been in touch with her by then. We, we're still trying to figure out how to reach out to her. So, for her to be detained and then just pop up in an interview all of the sudden as if she's a free woman was extremely concerning.

HM: Your mother is charged with two counts of transmitting insulting messages via a, via a computer system. The prosecutors accuse her of creating public disorder and damaging the reputation of the president and his wife. From what you understand, did she break the law with what she said?

AH: Technically, yes, that video did break the law. However, even if she did break the law, I don't feel that her punishment has been just whatsoever. My mom was not calling for any kind, kind of public disorder. She did not ask for people to riot against the president. She did not make threats on anyone's lives.

HM: You've been doing a lot of advocacy work on her behalf. What are you hoping is going to happen as a result?

AH: I did recently write a heartfelt letter to the president and first lady. So, I'm hoping with that, we could at least get her bail, so that we could know that she's, she'll be fully responsible for her health and can be safe and also be in contact with me and my siblings. But, you know, what I truly am hoping for is a full pardon on her case.

HM: Global Affairs Canada has given a statement to CBC. It says it has been in contact with local authorities, and it says that they are providing consular service to your mom. Do you feel like Canadian officials are doing enough to, to support her and possibly to bring your mother home?

AH: I don't feel that they're doing enough personally. You know, when I ask for, you know, them to step up and have more involvement in my mother's case, an excuse I hear, I've been hearing a lot, has been that they cannot intervene in Sierra Leone's justice system. However, I'm not asking for them to, you know, step in and try to change the laws of Sierra Leone. I'm asking for them to intervene on a Canadian citizen being abused, and being held in inhumane conditions. I feel as if a lot of what the honourary counsel has done through the Canadian embassy has actually been direct requests from me. You know, me asking for him to visit my mom, me asking him to bring food one time. That's all been done because I've had to push for it.

HM: Hawa's been denied bail three times. Her case is now moving to the High Court in Sierra Leone. You say that you are hoping for a full pardon. What are you hearing from her lawyer about her chances?

AH: We're, you know, we're staying, we're trying to stay hopeful. I think our chances right now are hard to tell. I can't tell if they're, you know, going to forgive my mom. I can't tell if the president and first lady are even aware of the extent of my mom's conditions. But I'm really hoping with that letter that some action will happen. Hopefully bail.

HM: You have taken on a lot. You're 20 years old. I'm just wondering, you know, your thoughts. Are you imagining what it will be like when you finally have that reunion with your mom?

AH: I think about that reunion every day. I know my mom is proud of me, and proud of the work I've done for her. And I'm going to keep pushing until I get that reunion.

HM: Thank you very much for talking with us, Alicia. Appreciate it.

AH: Thank you.

CH: Alicia Hunt is the daughter of Hawa Hunt, a Calgary woman who was arrested on live TV in Sierra Leone, because of a social media post criticizing the country’s president and first lady. We reached Alicia in Banff, Alberta.

[acoustic guitar]

Mount Robson First Descent

Guest: Christina Lusti

CH: Climbing snowy mountains is hard enough without skis on your back. But for the pros, going back down with those skis on your feet is worth the effort. Christina Lustenberger, or "Lusti" to her fans, is a former Olympic skier who now spends her time scaling mountain peaks, and then going back down much faster. This week, she ascended to the summit of Mount Robson -- the highest peak in the Canadian Rockies -- before descending three kilometres back down the southern side. We reached Christina Lusti in Lake Louise.

HM: Christina, how are you feeling after the big ascent and descent?

CHRISTINA LUSTI: To be quite honest, I feel quite depleted.

HM: I can imagine.

CL: A lot. It took a lot of emotional and physical energy from me, and I'm just trying to, like, sit with it all, and reflect, and decompress. You know, really decompress from it. Because this ascent and descent was stressful to say, to say the least.

HM: Yeah. Now, you did this with a partner, G. Has anyone ever achieved what the two of you were able to do on Mount Robson?

CL: No. This was the first ski descent of the Great Couloir on Mount Robson, which is the highest peak in the Canadian Rockies.

HM: So, what does that mean to you to be the first person to do this?

CL: I mean, I think to have the vision to look at this type of terrain is one thing. And then, to think about, like, I've been obsessing and thinking about this line for probably 10 years now. But, you know, so many things need to line up to accomplish such a thing. I need to be in the right space of time, you know, in my career. I need to meet the right partner. And then, we need to have the right weather conditions, avalanche conditions, and just, you know, emotionally feel like it's the right time for us to try such a thing because it is incredibly dangerous, incredibly complex, and it started with the purest form of imagination is looking at something that's never been done before, and, and having this calling towards this type of terrain.

HM: Right. Now, did your, your predictions and hopes about the weather hold up? Were the conditions as good as you'd hoped?

CL: No. I mean, [chuckle] Mount Robson is its own beast. It's just under 4,000 metres. And it can create its own weather patterns. Predicting the weather was extremely challenging. And it's just something that you can't force. You can't push up against the mountain or the weather when, when it's trying to do its own thing. And, and we did get pushed around by it. And eventually, you know, it all pays off. And we were able to have this incredible ski descent on a, you know, near-perfect day.

HM: But you didn't make it up the first time, right? It was a second attempt that, that you made it.

CL: Exactly. And that was just, you know, our first attempt. We put so much energy into it. And we, we were getting pushed. Like, it really felt like we were in a, in the vice of the mountain and the weather. It was pushing against us, and we were trying hard, and I think as people who, you know, pursue a lifestyle and a career in the mountains, you realize that you can only push up against these things so much. And that sometimes, you just have to listen to the surroundings, listen to your intuition, and retreat. I mean, we were so close to the summit on our first ascent. We're basically 200 metres shy. And we also, you know, when you decide to turn around, you still have a really engaging descent. And we did that in pretty much a whiteout. And then, halfway down, it turned into dark. And we were doing it by headlamp.

HM: Wow.

CL: You know? And so, we really put up a fight and kind of went to battle with the mountain on our first attempt.

HM: Now, the second ascent obviously worked. How long did it take you to get up there?

CL: Well, we approached it from a different route, so we set up a base camp on the dome and climbed the Kain Face. And I think that probably took us four hours to get to the summit. And it was, and then when we reached the summit and tipped our skis over the face, it was a 3.5-hour ski descent requiring transitioning from ski to crampons, back to ski, like, there's seven technical repels on the ski descent, you know? So, it's definitely a timely descent. There's a lot of technical skill where descending pitches over rock faces, over ice faces, threatening pieces of terrain that can send Spindrift or avalanches down at any time.

HM: What was it like in those moments when you were standing there on the summit, getting ready to come down. What did you say to each other?

CL: [chuckle] Let's be calm. Let's stay focused, you know? It's this very interesting parallel of like, you know, you reached the summit, and in some ways that is success, but you're only 50 per cent there. And with such a technical ski descent, you have to stay engaged. You have to stay focused. You have to preserve your energy. You have to keep the communication flowing with your partner.

HM: You know, I don't want to focus too much on gender, but you are a woman in a sport that's traditionally been male-dominated. What's it like for you as a woman achieving these milestones for the sport?

CL: You know, I'm always proud of these big ski descents that I've done, especially when I open them up for the first time. I think there's a lot of power in the action itself that I don't really need to speak about being a female or what it's like. There's a lot of inspiration in female actions, and I hope that this inspires the next generation of explorers or just females. You know, just to be curious with what we're able to accomplish, and to break the glass ceiling down, and, and to push away the limitations of anything gender, gender-weighted, you know?

HM: Before I let you go, I have to ask about your climbing partner, G. Because you shared this journey. Tell me how important it was to have him, and why he was the best person to do this with you?

CL: Oh, I mean, a partnership is extremely important. You know, we become such an intimate team on these accents and descents. And like I said, I had been dreaming of this line for about 10 years. But part of the process of doing these things is finding that perfect partner. Yeah, G is incredibly talented. And you know, for me, I've been doing this my whole life, and I feel like, you know, I have created some sense of mastery around traveling to the mountains. But then to meet a partner who inspires me, and pushes me, and challenges me, and we can, you know, really open up what's possible in this sport that we've created a lifestyle in.

HM: Yeah, it's an amazing feat. I really appreciate you telling us about it. Congratulations.

CL: Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Thanks for your time.

CH: We reached skier Christina Lusti in Lake Louise, Alberta.

[brisk piano]

Moose At Door

Guest: Chelsea Coles

CH: It's so rare to just drop by someone's house anymore. You know? To just realize you're in the neighbourhood, and pop by someone's front door. It may seem rude in this day and age to show up without texting or calling, or knowing the person at all, or understanding human language. But it can really be a nice gesture. Chelsea Coles certainly appreciated a stranger dropping by. Is "appreciated" the word? You know what? We'll ask her. We reached Ms. Coles in Fort St. John, British Columbia.

HM: Chelsea, who was on your doorstep on Monday?

CHELSEA COLES: A moose.

HM: A moose. What kind of moose? How big a moose?

CC: I think it was like a yearling, maybe. A female. I'm not, like, a moose expert, but that's kind of what I figured out after I researched her.

HM: How did you discover it?

CC: It was just a Monday morning, normal Monday morning, and I opened my door to go start my car, and she was sleeping on my doorstep.

HM: Did you just immediately shut the door again?

CC: Yeah. No, she, she jumped to her feet, scrambled around, and I, I screamed and slammed my door. And we both surprised each other. It was pretty crazy. [chuckling].

HM: What was going through your mind in that moment?

CC: I don't know. I honestly, I think about it, it was like this big, round, brown thing. And then, she just jumped up, and her legs, like, got her past my door. So, she was very tall. And it was just, I don't even know what I thought. It was just surreal. I screamed. Like, I'm shaking. And I was like, what is going on? So then, I have a little window beside my door, so I looked out. I was like, oh my God, there's a moose. And she did not want to leave my porch at all. She just stood there looking at me. So, I had to get my shovel that was nearby, just a couple of feet away from my door. And I was waving it around at her, trying to get her to, to leave my porch and my driveway so that I could go and start my car.

HM: So, you just had to get your, to your car that badly that you walked past this moose?

CC: Well, I mean, I didn't have to. I'm sure that if I said I was late, I had a good excuse. But I just, yeah, I just kind of waved it around at her, and she kind of sauntered very slowly and not bothered by, by me at all, so.

HM: You were going to a Pilates class, is that right?

CC: I was. Yes, I was.

HM: What did you say to, to your fellow Pilates doers?

CC: Yeah, they were just, they wanted picture proof. So, I showed everybody, and we were laughing about it, and just didn't think, like, she's going to be gone. So then, when I got home, she was cozied up, laying back right in front of my door again. And I have, I could not get back in my home.

HM: Were you surprised that she hadn't taken the hint and gotten the heck out of there when you waved a shovel at her?

CC: Yeah, I was really, I did not think that I would see her at all. Like, that was another big, huge surprise is pulling back into my driveway, and going are you kidding me?

HM: And she was basically where you left her?

CC: Yeah. Just so cozy. Curled up like a dog on the front porch.

HM: Did you call for help?

CC: I did. I posted in the Fort St. John group, Facebook group, and that's when I got all the attention. And people were like, call Conservation. So, I called them. They said because she wasn't being aggressive, that there wasn't really much they could do. And then, I FaceTimed with my kids to show them.

HM: What did they say?

CC: They were, yeah, they were just freaking out. It was kind of an exciting event for us, I guess. And then, everybody was kind of saying, well, you need to make noise and get her out of there. But I just kept saying, no, that's not going to work, you guys. Like, if I'm banging on things or making noise, she's going to need to come towards me to get out of that little nook area to get onto my, my driveway. And I, so I just kept saying, no, I'm not doing that. And then finally, after like an hour, I was like, well, maybe I'll try it. And it worked. She didn't, she did not like me making noise. And she stood up right away, and kind of walked towards me. And I had to run around my car so that she could walk past my car to get out.

HM: We have seen what a moose can do to a car. Were you worried what was going to happen to your vehicle?

CC: I wasn't. She just, she just seemed so laid back. She really didn't seem really aggressive. She, I, maybe thinking back now, it wasn't the greatest idea, but I didn't know what else to do.

HM: Yeah. So, what have people said about that Facebook post? What have they been telling you?

CC: Yeah, I've been hearing just stories all, like, people are like, oh, did you hear about the moose? I'm like, that was me. And then, when I was on the CBC radio in, here in B.C., I was listening to it, and somebody came by like, are you listening to CBC News? They're like, did you hear about that moose? So, I was like, [HM chuckles] yeah, that's me. So, it's quite hilarious. I did not think, I mean, I knew it was pretty funny and cool, but I didn't think it was going to get this much attention.

HM: Yeah. Looking at the photos that you posted, it's really cute.

CC: And that's why I think I wasn't scared. She just seemed very lonely and sad. And I think she came here just for, to get out of the wind. It's been really cold. And then, she was munching on my tree in my front yard, left some [pause] --

HM: Droppings.

CC: [both laugh] Droppings on my deck. And really was making herself at home.

HM: She left you some fertilizer for the spring.

CC: Yeah, exactly.

HM: Well, have you, when you've been leaving the house since, do, do you, like, scout the neighbourhood to see if she's still around?

CC: Oh, every, every time. And my, my son, he's almost 17. He's like, Mom, I keep looking out the window. I'm like, me too. [chuckle] We, we don't trust it now. We're like, I'm like, there's, something's got to be on my porch now.

HM: Any sign of her?

CC: No. Later on in the afternoon, one of my clients came, and she chased her down the road to get her away from my house. And I have not seen her.

HM: I wonder if she, she sees you as a friendly spot.

CC: I know. I kind of miss her. But, obviously, I hope she gets back to the forest.

HM: Yeah, for obvious reasons. For her safety, too.

CC: Yeah, for sure.

HM: Oh, great to have you tell us about the story. Thank you so much, Chelsea.

CC: You're very welcome.

CH: Chelsea Coles came face-to-face with a moose this week. We reached her in Fort St. John, British Columbia.

[funk]

Fish Human Relationships

SOUNDCLIP

[whimsical music]

REX COLUBRA: It's so hard to describe, so hard to put into words the feeling of swimming around with this fish. And knowing that I've known him from all these previous times and that he remembers me. He acts exactly the same every time. Every time I'm out there with him, it's like magic.

CH: That's the voice of Rex Colubra of Wisconsin -- talking about his surprising friendship with a smallmouth bass, whose name might also be Rex Colubra. We don't know for sure. It probably isn't. What we do know is that every year, Mr. Colubra -- the guy -- goes diving in the same lake, where he sees this same bass and they,m they hang out. It's a beautiful friendship, albeit one that would end in tragedy if Mr. Colubra tried to take his friend to a movie. I'm thinking about our relationship with fish because of a new study that could -- according to the researchers -- change that relationship. A study that suggests fish can tell humans apart by their outfits. Now, these researchers trained wild sea bream to follow a diver who rewarded them with treats. Then, in one test, they sent down two divers -- one in the person-with-treats diving outfit, and one in some other undersea garb. And the sea bream followed the person in the treats outfit. Toward the end of the study, the scientists write, quote, "The fact that wild bream can discriminate between divers adds scientific evidence to the numerous accounts suggesting differentiated relationships between fish and specific humans." Unquote. In other words, lots of fish -- besides that one bass possibly named Rex Colubra -- are capable of hanging out with people. Which might actually make us reconsider our current relationship with fish, and our tendency to eat them. One day, that relationship could be chill and casual -- instead of all-consuming.

[industrial]

Part 2: Bolsonaro Assassination Attempt, Ukraine Resident

Bolsonaro Assassination Attempt

Guest: Cede Silva

CH: Once his supporters attacked the presidential palace, the supreme court, and the congress of Brazil. Now, in charges filed last night, former President Jair Bolsonaro himself stands accused of trying to overthrow the government that he once led. The charges include participating in a plot to poison his chief political rival, Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva, known as Lula, who is now the President of Brazil -- and to assassinate a Supreme Court justice. Mr. Bolsonaro says the charges are part of a political witch-hunt by his opponents, who he described as a part of an "authoritarian regime." Cede Silva is a reporter with Brazilian media outlet O Fator. He's in Brasilia.

HM: Cede, you have been covering Mr. Bolsonaro's political career for a long time now. As you dug into the details of this indictment that was filed yesterday, what struck you most?

CEDE SILVA: Well, what strikes the most, Helen, is the fact that the attorney general, Jorge Messias, he has made a very convincing narrative. He's narrating the facts chronologically from the beginning to the end, like a film series. And he starts by a 2021 press conference that Bolsonaro, as president, gave when he was trying to sell distrust in Brazil's electoral system. He admitted that there was no evidence that the system can be tampered with, or that there is any electoral fraud. But he began from this point on increasing his campaign to sell distrust in the electoral system. And there are a series of other episodes that start from this. All will culminate in the January riots in 2023, where supporters of Bolsonaro ransacked the buildings housing all three branches of power in Brazil -- all of this in a very similar way to what happened in the United States with Trump and the 2021 Capitol riots.

HM: Now, according to these charges, how close did Mr. Bolsonaro and his allies actually come to killing political rivals?

CS: Okay. So, in, in, in one of the episodes of this long attempt of trying to remain in power or impede the President Lula from taking office, they found all this information about an attempted or planned operation to assassinate then President-elect Lula after the elections, but before he took office. And what the report says in the complaint is that six military officers of Brazil's special forces unit were in place in a night in December to conduct this assassination attempt, but they quit at the last time. They had cold feet the last time because they couldn't get political support from some high-ranking military officials.

HM: Now, Mr. Bolsonaro told reporters yesterday that he was not at all worried about the charges. And, at least at the time were speaking, no arrest warrant has been issued for him or any of his allies. Do you think that he's being legit here? That, that there is a chance that he really does have nothing to worry about?

CS: Well, I think that your listeners would be very familiar with people like Donald Trump, who say something and mean the other thing. And this goes very much in politics. Bolsonaro is worried, and we don't need to go inside his mind to know about that because we know he's worried because his allied lawmakers in the House, they are preparing an amnesty bill that would provide pardons to anyone involved in the January riots or related crimes. And Bolsonaro very much wants this amnesty to get passed in order to escape from jail and also, to run as president in 2026, something he is currently banned from doing.

HM: Do you think that people's support for him individually would be affected if he were indeed to have these charges laid formally or even be convicted?

CS: I don't think so. Because in a polarized environment, what, what we have seen is that leaders, when they have strong political support, they can do pretty much anything. Very similar case to Donald Trump being elected even though he was convicted in a New York court. Same thing with Bolsonaro. His supporters still understand that this indictment is not fair, and that he is a target of political persecution.

HM: When we're talking about Mr. Trump, we're not just talking about an analogy for what's happening in Brazil. He has actually, or at least his media company, sued Brazil's Supreme Court justice, the one who will decide whether or not to issue this arrest warrant for Mr. Bolsonaro. The Trump Media lawsuit is about a far-right influencer's media access. But I gather that some see that as really something else altogether, really an attempt to sway support towards Mr. Bolsonaro?

CS: Yes. The thing is that Trump and Bolsonaro are actually playing the same war in different theatres. They've got the US theatre and the Brazil theatre. And the war is the same. You've got these far-right leaders portraying as the paladins in a battle against the woke agenda, and against the political persecution and witch hunt from the courts, and the deep state, and the deep bureaucracy that would block these leaders from enacting what is the popular will. So, it's, it's a very, very similar battle and very similar arguments with both Mr. Trump and Bolsonaro. And now, for the first time in his new term, Trump has fired his shot in the Brazilian theatre of this war with the lawsuit against Justice Alexandre de Moraes.

HM: And what do you think most Brazilians think of that Trump lawsuit?

CS: Well, it's it's hard to say what most Brazilians think because Brazil is a polarized society, and people have different opinions. You have, what you see on social media is people aligned with Bolsonaro are celebrating this as a victory for freedom of speech because they have a long battle against Justice Alexandre de Moraes, and also, he has different battles with Twitter and Elon Musk in Brazil. And other people will say that this is a smokescreen for, for Trump and for Bolsonaro, and that people should be concerned which order serious issues in politics today.

HM: Cede, it's good to hear from you about all of this. Thank you very much.

CS: Thank you very much, Helen, for having me.

CH: Cede Silva is a reporter with Brazil's O Fator. We reached him in Brasilia.

[ambient electronic]

Congress Minimum Wage

CH: Lori Chavez-DeRemer faced tough questions from all sides today. She's U.S. President Donald Trump's nominee for labor secretary. In her confirmation hearing, Republicans grilled the former congresswoman about her past support for pro-union legislation. And Democrats put concerns of their own to Ms. Chavez-DeRemer. Senator Andy Kim asked for her position on the federal minimum wage in the U.S., which currently sits at 7.25 per hour.

SOUNDCLIP

LORI CHAVEZ-DEREMER: I recognize that it hasn't been changed, the minimum wage.

ANDY KIM: I guess I'm just asking you, like, do you think that's enough for a worker to live on? I'm just trying to get a sense of your vision for what the standard of life for an American worker is.

LCD: Yeah, well, I mean, again, for every state, for every community, again, I mentioned Oregon. What happens in Portland doesn't happen in Grants Pass. It certainly doesn't happen in Mason.

AK: I understand. But I guess I would ask you, what is, seven, $7.25 an hour, that is what in an annual term? Do you know, off the top of your head?

LCD: No.

AK: It's not a math question. So, I'm just trying to get a sense of, so it's about $15,000 a year.

LCD: Okay. Yeah.

AK: So, I guess I just want to ask you, do you think that there is a state in this country where someone can live comfortably on their own for $15,000 a year?

LCD: Well, I don't know if there is. But I would look to work with Congress. This is, this is a congressional issue. I hope I can support you in telling the story of what's happening on the ground.

AK: But that's what I'm just trying to get a sense of from you. Is, is what your vision is? Because I do want to try to engage and see if we can work on that together. So, for instance, you know, biggest issue I keep hearing about is about affordability of housing, and the challenges that people are facing when it comes to that. So, again, I'm just trying to get a sense of where you're at on this. Like, do you have a sense of what percentage of someone's salary should go towards housing? You know, is there an upper limit in your mind of where you'd like to see that?

LCD: Well, I know oftentimes, they talk about, you know, if it's 10 per cent, 20 per cent. But here's my commitment, Senator. My commitment to you is to tell that story. That I, I will come out and visit every state, and understand what's important to them. And tell that story not only to the president, but also work with members of Congress. And if you all see fit, I will fully and fairly enforce the minimum wage laws that you all see fit and work together. I know, again, I want this to be --

AK: This needs to be a conversation between us here.

LCD: Listen --

AK: It's not just on us. You know, you're going to be somebody who's supposed to be fighting for the American worker. Is 50 per cent of someone's salary too high in terms of what goes towards housing?

LCD: Well, again, depending on what the salary is, people can determine that. I mean, if I had to take a guess, you're wanting me to say yes or no. It's hard to guess on what people want to spend on their housing. But I do want to help the American worker. I want them to make enough money. I want to give them the opportunities. And I want to work with Congress on this issue because it is important. This is a sensitive issue.

CH: Lori Chavez-DeRemer taking questions from Senator Andy Kim at her confirmation hearing today.

[hip-hop]

Ukraine Resident

Guest: Kseniya Kharchenko

CH: Donald Trump says he can end the war in Ukraine. But this week, he's been waging war on its leader. The U.S. president launched a scathing attack on President Volodymyr Zelenskyy -- calling him a "dictator" who's doing a "terrible job". Even more disturbingly, talking about the war yesterday, he told Ukraine, "You should never have started it". Ukraine didn't start it; Russia did, when it invaded in 2022. The comments follow peace talks between U.S. and Russia in Riyadh, which excluded Ukraine. They also come days before the three-year anniversary of the war. Kseniya Kharchenko is a former resident of Kyiv. We spoke to her when the Russian invasion began. And today, we reached her in Vienna.

HM: Kseniya, when you hear the back-and-forth between President Zelenskyy and President Trump right now, what kind of emotions and thoughts are conjured up for you?

KSENIYA KHARCHENKO: Well, I feel like on the one hand, I would say that I would, you know, I would love to feel some rage. But, on the other hand, I mean, I'm so skeptical, and I'm so tired of all these so-called negotiations because they are not negotiations at all. And Zelenskyy is now actually as, like, a really legally, legally-elected Ukrainian president, he now expresses the will of the Ukrainian people, who actually want the peace more than anybody else. And, of course, it's not in the hands of, like, neither the President Trump nor the President Putin to decide what Ukrainians have to do. Because now, we really found ourselves in the point like three years ago, when the Russia was terrified by the proximity of NATO. And therefore, they decided to invade Ukraine. Now, Lavrov is saying the same. I mean, where were these three years? What have we been fighting for? Because what Russia is trying to do, they're just trying to, as it's been called, it's the war about the existence of Ukrainian people. Because Russia has been fighting with Ukraine, trying to seize it for 300 years. And now, this war, it last, and it lasts. So, whenever anything happened like the ceasefire or something like this, the Russia would just take this pause in order to accumulate resources and then go further.

HM: Of course, now, you have this new U.S. administration and a vastly different approach to what's happening. When you hear President Trump say to Ukraine, you should never have started it, what goes through your mind?

KK: To my mind goes, like, I think that the President Trump has been totally brainwashed by Russian propaganda. Because if this, like, global gaslighting would ever pass any kind of, I don't know, the stages of approval, if they actually exist in the world after we see how international law is just falling into pieces, well, I just don't really understand what's happening.

HM: You said a few moments ago that you would like to feel rage, but you feel skepticism. So, do you, do you not have concerns that, that this is actually what is going to be laid down before Ukraine as, as the only option that the United States is willing in any case, to support?

KK: Well, even if it will be laid down before Ukraine, I can be 1 million per cent sure that this war will not stop, just like it didn't start after the Minsk Agreements. And there was no ceasefire. And, as I have said, the Russia will accumulate resources, and then they will go further. This is like the moment, you know, of a lifetime. Just one chance for the President Putin to restore this greatness of the Russian empire. And, I mean, how will he ever waste it after three years of this kind of war? Even if he says that, or as Lavrov said, that we want to stop people dying. I mean, they just say this, and then the next night, they send another missiles. So, what are they talking about? And what is the level of trust that you can have into, like, in this kind of agreements, if any kind of, I don't know, the papers which are supposed to serve as these, like, the guarantees for any kind of peace or whatever agreement if they are not worth anything? If they just not exist. And Ukrainians, the guarantees, and these guarantees are not before Ukraine. There are demands, but not guarantees of the peace or whatever it will be, I don't know, negotiated, served, agreed.

HM: May I ask you right now, how are you and your son doing?

KK: Well, I have to say that it was just recently, it was yesterday in the morning, when I was talking to a friend of mine who is in Ireland, and she said, you know what? My kids, they speak English, and they do not speak Ukrainian that well because they were far too small when they left Ukraine three years ago. So, I have to say that my son is now speaking German much better than Ukrainian. His father is now serving as well. He joined the army. And my son is going to school wearing his father's hat, like the real hat of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. He has a backpack, he has the patches, and he has some other symbols. And I don't know what's in his head. And I don't know what's in his heart. But what I can sense is that it's there. And he hasn't seen his father in a year, and he's still lucky because he has his father, and his father is alive, unlike other people, and his friends who became orphans because of this war. And this is something that we will never forget. So, we've lost our homes, we've lost our friends, we've lost our families. And everybody in Ukraine knows someone or has someone in their family who fell in this war. So, how am I doing? I'm feeling like when I'm talking to Austrians, when I'm talking to locals who are here, I'm just, you know, like, trying to find something that could be, you know, that could be like a bridge to something that they could comprehend. Because no one can imagine what the war is, what the world looks like. So, I would say, okay, imagine you're now been divorced, and been alone with your kids. How would you feel? You know, women feel terrified. And then, I say, okay. And then, imagine you move to Brazil, and you learn another language, and you will be, like, looking for the job, the school, the doctors, and anything. And even at this stage, this is unimaginable, especially for those golden, you know, baby boomers, who've been, like, really benefiting from this. The longest period of the peace in Europe. They would never, ever imagine moving somewhere. The Austrians would say "Wir können nichts tun". "We cannot do anything". This is just happening.

HM: Kseniya, our best to you and your son. I'm very grateful that you're willing to speak with us again. Thank you.

KK: Thank you very much.

CH: That was former Kyiv resident Kseniya Kharchenko. She's in Vienna.

[sombre instrumental]

Concrete Toboggan

CH: The classic wooden toboggan: it’s not the fastest. And prone to high-speed tipping. The crazy carpet: slick, but it’s slight. it'll slide right out from under you. The spinning plastic saucer: decent velocity, but it’s impossible to steer. You will wind up backwards. The eternal debate over what makes for the greatest sled is always loudest at this time of year. And for years now -- with admittedly negligible success -- engineering students have tried to open minds to a bold alternative to the old faves. Every winter, they compete to create the best concrete toboggan. This year's winner came from the University of Toronto team led by Amélie Smithson and Tobin Zheng.

SOUNDCLIP

TOBIN ZHENG: The rule is that the sliding surface must be made out of concrete. So, our toboggan has four concrete skis, and it sits on a steering and braking system made out of aluminum, and a carbon fibre monocoque shell.

DAVID COMMON: Is it heavy?

TZ: No, not at all. It is 305 pounds.

DC: Well, that's not light. [both chuckle]

TZ: Oh! Yeah! Well, the limit actually is 350 pounds, so we were quite underweight this year.

DC: Oh wow. Okay. And presumably, that helps with speed?

TZ: Yeah, for sure.

DC: Amélie, how fast does it go?

AMÉLIE SMITHSON: We believe this year, it went between 25 and 30 kilometres an hour. But in the past, we've hit speeds of 70 kilometres an hour.

DC: [chuckling] What?! Really?!

AS: Yes. Back in 2020, our toboggan went down really fast and we won for speed.

DC: You took it to what is called the Great Northern Concrete Toboggan Race, which happens in Montreal. What is that event like?

AS: So, that event is a five-day event, with multiple events over the days where teams can present their designs, discuss with other teams what they've done for their toboggan, and one of the main days is race day, where we all go and race the toboggans against each other.

DC: I did notice that some of the results from that have DNF -- did not finish. What happened to those sleds? What happened to those people?

TZ: Yeah. So, the hill that we were on this year, it was a little bit, there was a flat section kind of partway down, and a lot of teams got stuck in that section.

DC: Okay.

TZ: We were one of the teams that did make it to the bottom. So, we're very fortunate in that. And that's thanks to our wonderful ski design that was made by our concrete lead team.

DC: How did you, how did you come up with the design?

TZ: So, we iterate on the designs from previous years, and we basically improve upon them. Sometimes, people change it up completely. And then, we take that and we manufacture during the fall.

DC: Tobin, I got to ask you, Ringo is the name of the concrete toboggan. What happens to Ringo now?

TZ: So, we keep her on display for now. Not sure exactly what we're going to do with it, but we'll, there's a toboggan for people to look at. We usually bring it to, like, clubs, fairs and events like that, yeah.

AS: Yeah, one of the great things about the competition is sometimes alumni teams come back.

DC: Oh yeah.

AS: And they can use the old toboggan using whatever rules were in place that year. So, potentially, in the future, an alumni team can use that to bargain for fun --

DC: So, like, the two of you could come back 10 years from now, as you're both working as engineers and just have at it again?

AS: Exactly.

CH: The co-captains of the University of Toronto's Concrete Toboggan Team, Tobin Zheng and Amélie Smithson, speaking to David Common on CBC Toronto's Metro Morning today.

[marching band]

Part 3: EU AI Regulation, Anglerfish

EU AI Regulation

Guest: Axel Voss

CH: The European Union has officially begun enforcing its AI Act, and already, one of its key architects is raising an alarm. The act was introduced in 2019; it's the first of its kind in the world to regulate artificial intelligence -- specifically AI systems that are deemed a risk to society. That includes a ban on things like real-time facial recognition, and other biometric identification that categorizes people by race or sexual orientation. Companies can now face millions of dollars in fines for breaking the rules. But Axel Voss says those rules don't go far enough -- especially when it comes to protecting the copyright of authors, musicians, and others in creative industries from generative AI. Mr. Voss is a centre-right German MEP who helped write the original legislation. We reached him in Brussels.

HM: Mr. Voss, what, in your opinion, is missing from this act to protect the creative industry?

AXEL VOSS: So, we have had the upcoming or new problem with generative AI during the negotiations. And all the creative sectors so far is not solved. We did some of these elements in saying, please respect copyright. But we did not introduce tools to really enforce these rights. And this is something what's still missing.

HM: So, what are you hearing from people whose livelihoods be, depend on, on being creative, being published, you know, having their works be presented as they want?

AV: Yeah, this is getting more and more complicated. So, there is still this kind of fight where developers are saying, in Europe, we are not leading in this sector. So, that's why we need to be more free. But, on the other hand, the creative sector is then lacking kind of remuneration. But the large language models are using their data, and even not thinking about for the remuneration. So, this is something what is not okay. We need to create a balance. Therefore, now, we initiated a kind of an initiative report here in the parliament, where we would like to approach this problem better. And, hopefully, let's cross fingers we might come to a solution.

HM: But this is legislation that you yourself helped write. So, why did you not include those types of protections in the act to begin with?

AV: Yeah, it has different reasons. Some of my colleagues have been saying this is not a copyright law. This is an AI law. That's why we shouldn't have a kind of big chapter in it for copyright. Secondly, we have been extremely under time pressure because of the ending of the mandate. And thirdly, there has been no solution foreseeable so far, and that's why we needed more time in trying to think about how we can come forward with a more practical solution.

HM: You know, this is such a fast-moving field, as you've said. In 2019, could you have even imagined where AI would be today?

AV: No, totally not. We have introduced it in 2019, these so called text and data mining exemption, but meaning that companies are using this for their own information, for their own purposes, but not for accessing these for the public. And that's why this is already a kind of a totally different approach and different interpretation. And so, we haven't foreseen this.

HM: So, given that rapidity of change, how, how likely is it that regulators and legislators will be able to keep up with the technology, and, and setting the kinds of rules, regulations, and laws that, that you are trying to achieve?

AV: Yeah. And so, of course, on the one hand side, we need to be faster to frame, probably, new, upcoming technology better, and in a faster way. So, I would dream of three months. And creating a kind of a frame in our democracy process here, it seems a little bit difficult [chuckling], of course, but we need to be prepared ourselves. I would say we need to come up now with kind of solutions and thinking to make future copyright and the creative sector more futureproof. And that we should think about a solution what is valid for all upcoming technology that we do not have to discuss again and again the existence of copyright every five years. This would be my intention. If there is a solution, we will see.

HM: You know, in a speech just last week, U.S. Vice President J.D. Vance said that the U.S. plans to be dominant when it came to AI. And he very vocally warned European countries to get rid of what he called excessive regulation or get left behind. What do you think? What went through your mind when you heard that?

AV: Yeah. So, at first, of course, AI is a very dominant technology. And probably, the fundamental of everything what's coming up next. And that's why, of course, we need to come to a situation where we are all able also to develop and to use AI. On the second hand, on the other hand, so I would say if you just try to get rid of every value and what a democracy has, this is a kind of betraying democracy. And that's why we are thinking in coming up and we need to be better, of course, coming up with the link of values and technology. And this would be something where I would say Europe can provide such an element, but we need to be better. And it's possible, from my point of view, and here just to give up values is not the right way forward, especially when all experts are warning them to use these without limits.

HM: Yeah, well, we're dealing with these, these challenges of the speed of that technological change, as we mentioned. But we're also looking at the politics involved, and the, you know, inability to find consensus. Are you at all optimistic that we're up to the task of regulating AI going forward?

AV: I know we need to catch up with the competition better. So, this is where we are totally not good right now. On the other hand, I do not see that we would like, therefore, to give up all what is important to us. The EPP Group, so European People's Group in the European Parliament, is ready to go to change all of this. But it depends, of course, on majorities.

HM: Well, thank you for telling us, Mr. Voss, about the challenges that you are facing. It's obviously an important issue to all of us. Thank you.

AV: Yes, thank you. Bye-bye.

CH: Axel Voss is a German MEP. He’s in Brussels.

[instrumental]

Western Glacier Study

CH: It's not news that glaciers are shrinking -- or that that's not a good thing. But new research has produced a much clearer picture of the state of glaciers the world over -- and that picture is -- as you'd expect -- not very pretty. University of Northern British Columbia professor Brian Menounos is a co-author of the new paper in the journal Nature that, among other things, shows glaciers in Western Canada are shrinking faster than ever.

SOUNDCLIP

BRIAN MENOUNOS: By and large, what we're finding globally is that Earth's glaciers have lost on the order of 273 gigatonnes of water per year. So, that's a tremendous amount of water that's being permanently lost due to climate change.

BILL FEE: Wow! What kind of impact is this having on people? You know, it's a worldwide phenomenon. So, I guess we should probably start with the world. What are we seeing in terms of a global response to this?

BM: So, you take all that water, and you distribute it over the global ocean, and that represents nearly a millimetre of sea level rise per year. So, that's, that's a substantial amount of sea level rise due to melting ice. It's the second largest component rather than the oceans themselves warming up due, due to thermal expansion. So, as you heat up water, it changes its volume. And so, the amount lost by glaciers is really contributing to sea level rise. And that has global implications. When we think about Western Canada, however, we've lost over that 23-year-period something like almost a quarter of the total ice volume.

BF: We talk about very big numbers, and very worldwide phenomena. What do you say to people when you have this kind of research that may feel a bit powerless in the face of this, this data?

BM: Well, I would say, I would say to all listeners, you know, just in the same way that this particular study was an international collaboration, we also have to internationally collaborate on rapidly mitigating greenhouse gas emissions. This is something that scientists have demonstrated for a number of years, that, that there is a clear link between rising greenhouse gases and a warming planet. So, it's not going to take any particular nation. It's not going to take any particular individual. It's really a collective effort that we really need to have an all-hands-on-deck approach to, to this problem.

CH: Research scientist Brian Menounos is the co-author of a new paper in the journal Nature. He was talking to guest host Bill Fee on the CBC's Daybreak North earlier today.

[percussive jazz]

Anglerfish

Guest: David Jara

CH: Fans of Finding Nemo will remember the delightful tale of a tiny clownfish, trying to make his way home. But you'll also remember the delightful moment that a blank-eyed, alien-looking fish with gigantic pointy teeth attempts to consume two of our heroes, after using a bioluminescent glow to lure them. In real life, the black sea devil, as it is commonly known, is one of nature's most astonishing and worst miracles. It usually dwells way down deep where sunlight can't reach. But just a few days ago, a team of researchers found an anglerfish swimming close to the surface in daylight -- and captured it on video. David Jara is the photographer who got that footage. We reached him in Barcelona.

HM: David, take me back to the moment that you saw this fish. What was that like?

DAVID JARA: Well, I was in, in, in the Canary Islands. I was with my friends, my colleagues, marine biologists, helping them to try to find sharks in the open sea. And this day, I had, we had no, no luck with sharks. And we were coming back to the, to the island. And when we came with the boat, going back to the land, we saw, suddenly, a shadow, a small, black shadow in the water. We stopped the boat, and we just jumped into the water. And we saw, we realized that this was, was an anglerfish. And we thought we were, we were crazy.

HM: Yeah, I can, I can imagine. Now, tell me, first of all, when you got that closer look, what did you see? Describe what it looks like.

DJ: Well, we saw, first of all, we saw a small, small animal with not a very good condition. She was with the scars on the skin, and not good-looking, swimming in a not good way. But, yeah, this animal is black coloured. She has a curious appendix in the dorsal fin that uses it as a light in the, in the deep ocean to, to, to, to hunt prey. It has a, like, bioluminescence point in this dorsal appendix that uses it like a, like a fishing rod to try to, to attract prey with this light. Has sharp teeth. Everybody can see that in the ,in the videos. But the animal was slow and in bad condition. She was not about to attack us or something like that. She was just swimming towards the surface, and, and in a really bad condition.

HM: Right. In English, this type of anglerfish is often called the black sea devil. Does she come by that name honestly, given her appearance? Because, you know, the images I've seen, it's kind of a scary-looking fish.

DJ: Yeah, that's true. It is. But just the appearance, I mean, this, another animal, it's just the fish. And it has no poison. It has no, no, no, no, no, nobody has to be afraid of this animal. It's just scary because this animal is a, is a hunter in the deep ocean, and needs these teeth to try to, to get prey in that deep environment. But they are usually small, and it's very hard, as everybody knows, to, to find one of these animals, so.

HM: Right. I guess, I wonder, was it apparent to you immediately what you were looking at? Given that it was sort of out of its normal environment, it would seem, like, pretty rare?

DJ: Yeah, it is pretty rare. Maybe we are the first ones in the world that, that have recorded this animal. Another one, another female in this surface in, in the, in daytime because there's a lot of, well, not a lot, but there's a few videos of this animal alive. But always recorded with submarines or something like that, or maybe dead, dead animals in the, in the in the coast. But maybe we are the first ones to record this species in the surface alive.

HM: Right. So, what are the theories? You were with a team of marine biologists, why do you all think that instead of being, you know, as far down as 2,000 metres, she was so close to the surface?

DJ: Well, there's a lot of thoughts of why. But for me, maybe the one that makes more sense to me is that, for example, in Canary Islands are volcanic islands. So, it could be that maybe a strong hot current from the deep could take this animal from its environment to the, to the surface. That could be one, one, one possibility. Another one could be that the animal was maybe with some disease. We could see that the animal was in a very bad condition, as I said. And that could be also a reason.

HM: You had mentioned that the fish was a female. Did you know that right away? What's the obvious difference?

DJ: Yeah, it's curious because there's a big sexual dimorphism in these species because the female is really different to the male. Females are bigger. Much more bigger than, than the males. For sure, the first thing that people have noticed is that the females are the only ones that has this bioluminescent appendix that everybody knows from the film Searching Nemo, this, this, this light that these fishes have in their heads to attract prey. The only females have this, this appendix, and males doesn't have. And also, this animal was six centimetres long. And, and males can't reach more than three centimeters long. So, only because of the size and the, and the appendix, we knew that it was a female and not male.

HM: You refer to Finding Nemo. You know, the fish in that cartoon was not only big, it was extremely ugly and threatening-looking.

DJ: Yes. [chuckling] Yes, of course.

HM: Do you think this movie was fair to the fish? Or do you think it took liberties?

DJ: Of course, it was, yeah, [laughing] a film. But, you know, films are films. And every time, they are doing things like that. This video went viral all because it was an interesting animal to be recorded. But also, because people recognized the animal so fast because of the film. So, it's a little bigger in the, in the film that in reality. But there is also another species, not only this, there's more. So, it could be also another species that I don't know.

HM: David, I've enjoyed talking with you. Thank you so much. Have a great day.

DJ: Yeah, you too.

HM: Bye.

DJ: Thank you.

CH: That was photographer David Jara. We reached him in Barcelona.

[pop rock]

MB Young Curlers

CH: This week in Thunder Bay, Ontario young curling fans are getting close to the action at the Scotties Tournament of Hearts. As part of the Future Stars program, kids are paired up with different teams, and get to hang out rinkside to watch some of the best curlers in Canada compete for this year's championship. Twin sisters Kamryn and Khloe Einarson are following Team Manitoba. And they're already pretty familiar with high-level curling, because their mother -- Kerri Einarson -- is a four-time Scotties champion, and Team Manitoba's skip again this year. Here are Kamryn and Khloe during their mom's match yesterday.

SOUNDCLIP

MARY-JEAN CORMIER: What do you think about your mom when you come to a big event like this, and see her do her thing?

KAMRYN EINARSON: Probably proud. Yeah, I'm always excited to go and watch her, so I'm like, really proud of her and how she's doing.

MJC: Now, do you two play together? I can see your twins, right?

KE: Yes, we play together.

MJC: Okay. So for your age group, how old are you?

KE: Eleven.

MJC: So, what kind of curling do you do at your age?

KE: We sometimes, like, spare when my mom and dad play doubles, and then we play just juniors.

MJC: Okay. And how do you like playing juniors?

KE: It's fun.

KHLOE EINARSON: We go in lots of bonspiels, so.

MJC: Now, do you have hopes of being in this kind of level of curling in your future?

KHLOE EINARSON: Yes.

MJC: So, you are wearing jackets that say "Future Stars", and that's why you're up here in this special spot to watch today. What's it like to. To be a Future Star?

KE: It's really nice. I like because you get going nice and you get to, like, be with them. And, yeah.

MJC: What do you think?

KHLOE EINARSON: Well, I like just to be down there being close to all the players.

MJC: Now, did you guys have any advice for your mom this morning before her game?

KHLOE EINARSON: Probably to relax and just have fun, and do her thing.

KAMRYN EINARSON: just good luck, and the same thing Khloe said.

MJC: And is there anything you guys do when you watch your mom to try and send her good luck, or give her a good vibe?

KHLOE EINARSON: Cheer really loud and just, yeah.

CH: Kamryn and Khloe Einarson -- the twin daughters of four-time Scotties champion Kerri Einarson. They were talking to Mary-Jean Cormier, host of CBC Thunder Bay's Superior Morning.

The AIH Transcript For February 19, 2025

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