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The AIH transcript for April 08, 2025

For more episodes of this podcast, please click this link.

NIL KÖKSAL: Hello, I'm Nil Köksal.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[theme]

CH: Tonight:

NK: Checking his references. Pierre Poilievre's former boss, Stephen Harper, gives him a ringing endorsement. Another of Poilievre's former caucus colleagues says that's not just partisan back-slapping, that the Conservative leader could still win this topsy-turvy election.

CH: The last moments of the first responders. More disturbing details emerge about the paramedics shot dead by Israeli soldiers in Gaza. One of their grieving colleagues tells us why they're calling for an independent inquiry.

NK: A run for their own money. Premier Wab Kinew sends a clear message that spurned U.S. researchers are welcome in his province, but scientists in Manitoba say research funding is already painfully low -- and that they'd welcome a little more attention themselves.

CH: Speaking their language. The editor of a Low German newspaper tells us about his visit to a measles-afflicted Mennonite community in Texas, and his efforts to get through to residents.

NK: He was the different drummer his band marched to. SNL and Portlandia's Fred Armisen, a drummer himself, remembers his friend and inspiration, Clem Burke, who spent decades behind the kit for Blondie.

CH: And...very high five. Technology from a Canadian company made it possible to take the first-ever medical X-ray in space. And like the first-ever X-Ray on Earth, it's of a hand.

CH: As It Happens, the Tuesday Edition, Radio that gives you the upper hand.

[theme]

Part 1: Conservative Campaign, Manitoba Research Funding, Clem Burke Obit

Conservative Campaign

Guest: Monte Solberg

CH: It wasn't a surprise. But for Pierre Poilievre, it was a big campaign moment. Former Prime Minister Stephen Harper took to the stage at a rally in Edmonton last night to endorse the Conservative leader. Mr. Harper compared and contrasted his former cabinet minister to Liberal Leader Mark Carney, who served as the governor of the Bank of Canada during Mr. Harper's time in office.

SOUNDCLIP

STEPHEN HARPER: I am in a unique position in this federal election. I am the only person who can say that both of the men running to be prime minister once worked for me. [laughter] And in that regard, my choice, without hesitation, without equivocation, without a shadow of a doubt, is Pierre Poilievre. [clapping and cheers]

CH: That endorsement comes halfway through an election campaign that has the Liberals leading in the polls. To take a closer look at the Conservative campaign, we reached former Conservative cabinet minister Monte Solberg. He's now the CEO of New West Public Affairs in Calgary.

NK: Monte, clearly that crowd was revved up after hearing Stephen Harper speak, and what he had to say. Do you think, though, ultimately that that kind of speech and that kind of moment might influence swing voters?

MONTE SOLBERG: I think a lot of people will be impressed that, you know, a prime minister that they remember well and fondly took the time to get out there and get behind a candidate. It certainly is going to rev up the base of the party, which is important because, you know, you don't need people just to express their preferences to pollsters. You need them to come out and vote. And somebody like Stephen Harper can probably rally the troops to get them out to do exactly that.

NK: From where you sit, how do you rate the importance of the Conservatives reaching undecided voters, as opposed to making sure committed Conservatives get to the ballot box?

MS: Well, there's no question that they need to start to get to those swing voters, many of whom are in southern Ontario and Lower Mainland B.C. And that really requires, um, you know, getting people to start to pay attention as we get to within three weeks of election day. And, you know, they're starting to do that. A lot of them are in the Trump trance these days, but I suspect a lot of people will be starting to wrap their mind around, well, what do we do, you know, once we come to term with the fact that we're not going to have the same trading partner that we had in the past and we need to do some things on our own? And I think that really swings the advantage to Pierre, who's been pounding on a lot of those issues for the last several years. You know, issues like improving the economy, which has been absolutely flat, hasn't grown at all in the last 10 years, and ensuring that we can move our resources across the country.

NK: The polls are showing, as you know, a drop in support for the Conservatives since January, when the U.S. President took office. And all the discussions, if we can call them that, about the U.S. Relationship with Canada began, and the tariffs threats. At this stage in the campaign, the Liberals are now out in front. What do you think the Conservatives need to do to pull ahead and win? I mean, we did hear Stephen Harper try to say Trump is not the reason for the situation Canada is in right now. What do you think needs to be done to get that message to stick?

MS: Be consistent and don't panic. Keep getting the message out. People are concerned about affordability, about high taxes, about crime, about homelessness and addiction. And Pierre Poilievre has been pounding those issues for several years now. And I think as the public starts to wrap their mind around the fact that this isn't just about the issues of today and tariffs, it's also about who can bring change to the country over the next four years. I think that really benefits Pierre Polievre and the Conservatives.

NK: It's been interesting to watch the difference provincially in Ontario, at least, in terms of how this issue and the response to the U.S. president, it could be argued, has benefited Ontario's premier Doug Ford. And, as we've said, we're seeing a drop in support for the federal Conservatives since all of the tariff threats began. Why do you think that is?

MS: Well, I think it's also the case that Doug Ford was the premier when all of this started to happen. He was able to run to Washington a couple of times. And people could see not just a political candidate, but the premier of their province. They tend to rally around their leaders in times of crisis. And the same thing has happened at the federal level. You know, Mark Carney has been not just the Liberal leader, but prime minister, and nobody wants to give up that advantage. So, they tend to hang around the mic with the full weight of the office of prime minister around them and, you know, that that helps. So, it's important now that Pierre takes full advantage of any sort of gaps in the Trump trance and all the noise that's going on south of the border to advance the issues that we know from the last two years the public has been vitally interested in.

NK: But if right now their biggest concern is what they're seeing and feeling from the United States and the U.S. president, do you think that the Conservative leader has done enough to be strong on that issue and distance himself from any perceived or real support for that administration?

MS: Yeah, all leaders have made a change in the last number of weeks as it became clear that President Trump was going to push tariffs and break up the old trading relationships that have served us so well. So, everyone has made the pivot. Mark Carney gets the advantage because he's the prime minister. So, others have to get creative. You know, the good news for Pierre is he's got these huge rallies. We've seen a narrowing of the polls to some degree. Some polls are showing us tied. And in some cases, actually gaining a little bit on the Liberals. So, you know, we'll take that. And also, you know, there's still three weeks to go. There's the debates to go. There's lots of potential opportunities to really pick up some support and Pierre needs to take full advantage when those opportunities come along.

NK: What do you want to see and hear in the debates, Monte, from Pierre Polievre to signal to you that they could be able to change the trajectory of the campaign and have things move in their favour?

MS: You know, he's been very good over the last couple of years at reflecting the hopes and needs of Canadians. He's captured a lot of this in videos that have gone viral. I think he just needs to stay on that and just remind people that he's been on these issues. You know, while Mark Carney was off at Brookfield and making lots of money, good for him, Pierre has been chipping away at the issues that are important to Canadians. So, you need to point to the fact that Carney is surrounded by the same cabinet, the same agenda, that served us so poorly under Justin Trudeau. So, if he can do that successfully, I think there's every chance he can start to swing momentum around.

NK: Your first federal election, if I'm not mistaken, was back in 1993. Have you ever seen a campaign that's like this one?

MS: Well, in a way, '93 was, is similar in the sense that it really involved wholesale change. But this is really unique. There's no question about it because you've got somebody who's not on the stage, who's very much influencing where things go, that being Donald Trump, of course. So, that makes it really unique, but it also makes it exciting in the sense that we don't know what Trump's going to say in the next hour, let alone over the next three weeks. So, you know, buckle up. And whoever can be agile and seize the moment could actually end up becoming prime minister.

NK: Monte, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

MS: Thank you.

CH: Monte Solberg is a former Conservative cabinet minister, who now runs New West Public Affairs in Calgary, Alberta.

[lounge jazz]

Manitoba Research Funding

Guest: Aleeza Gerstein

CH: Manitoba Premier Wab Kinew is rolling out the welcome mat due south -- hoping to lure U.S. scientists north. The premier, like a number of other people we've talked to across the country, is hoping the tensions south of the border will convince scientists to pack up and head to Canada.

SOUNDCLIP

WAB KINEW: There's bright people in the States who are being put out of work, or who cannot do the randomized controlled trials that they need to publish serious papers because of the changes that are happening under the Trump administration. And what I would say is come to Manitoba.

CH: But that message isn't getting a warm welcome from everyone. In an open letter, researchers in Manitoba claim the province isn't doing enough to support the researchers it already has. The letter points to years of cuts to Research Manitoba -- the agency responsible for most public research funding in the province. Aleeza Gerstein is an associate professor in Microbiology & Statistics at University of Manitoba. She's one of the signatories on the open letter. We reached her in Winnipeg.

NK: Aleeza, was that pitch what pushed you and the other signatories on this open letter to sign on and speak out?

ALEEZA GERSTEIN: I think that's the immediate reason that this happened, that my colleague Robert Beattie led this writing of a letter, but I think the sentiments in that letter have been brewing for a very long time.

NK: How long would you say? When did it start percolating for you?

AG: Well, I started my position in September 2018, so I would say from the first day I started my job and started looking for funding for my research program.

NK: And have you been able to secure the kind of funding you need to do the research you want to do?

AG: So, I have been very fortunate. I got an NSERC grant in my first year, and I think on my third try, I got a Research Manitoba New Investigator Award. So, it's very difficult. The funding rates are very low.

NK: And it can be up to fluctuations and changes of policy, governmental changes of policy, all that sort of thing under normal circumstances, even without the situation that we're seeing now in the U.S.

AG: That's right. And so, there's been some investment, federally especially, also provincially, in sort of what I would call boutique programs. So, this is things that the government can point to, you know, big investments and sort of flashy programs. But that's actually not where research shows that the greatest investment happens. So, the greatest benefits happen when research dollars are invested in programs that anyone can apply for. So, these are the basic programs at the national level. That's the NSERC Discovery grants, CHR project grants. And in Manitoba, that's this one program that remains from Research Manitoba, which are these new investigator operating grants.

NK: The letter reads in part, quote, while welcoming U.S. academics could be a historic opportunity to expand Manitoba's research potential, significant research investments are still required to realize that potential, unquote. And you want an increase in funding from the province, certainly. How much money are you and your colleagues talking about?

AG: Currently, Manitoba invests about $10 per person in provincial R&D funding. That can be compared to $40 per person in Saskatchewan, $60 to $70 in Alberta, about $100 in Ontario. Quebec is an outlier, $275 per person. So, we're asking for an investment in this province.

NK: In January, at least 245 federal scientists at the National Microbiology Laboratory in Winnipeg could not get their contracts renewed because its funding for research around the COVID-19 response was coming to an end. That's one example. How do you square that with the kind of recruitment talk we're hearing not just from Premier Kinew, but from others across the country?

AG: That's exactly right. So both in Manitoba and in Canada, we have world-class researchers that are already here. And we're already struggling to fund our research programs to reach their potential. I was a postdoc in the U.S., so I've experienced that system. And even with the funding cuts, which are atrocious, they still far eclipse what Canada invests. And Manitoba is at the bottom of that investment among the problems.

NK: So, when you talk to your former colleagues in the U.S., and they're telling you about the climate there and you're talking about the climate here, what do you say to them?

AG: So, there's still lots of benefits in Canada to doing research in Canada. It's still, it feels a lot like in the US, it really has become a business. It really feels to a lot of my colleagues that there's students, our clients, and they're expected to sort of serve this business enterprise. And at least for me, that's not what it feels like here. It still feels like my job is to train and educate students, and I'm able to do that sort of the way I want to do that. I still think that this is the best place to be a researcher. I didn't apply to jobs anywhere else. But I know how much more of an impact we could have if we had more funding. And this is not asking for a handout. Research dollars pay themselves back. Every dollar invested in research in Manitoba brings back $4.77 into Manitoba.

NK: I know you and other researchers were able to meet with Renee Cable, the advanced education minister, earlier today. How did that meeting go?

AG: What I walked away from that meeting with is that we're talking to the premier, we're taking to a Wab Kinew. So, research, I don't think fits neatly into the box of just Minister Cable's portfolio to me is overarching above all of the portfolios. It's healthcare, it's poverty reduction. It's a strategy for housing. It touches on all of the problems that ale Manitoba and all the things that we're trying to deal with in Canada to make life better for everyone. And so, it gets pigeonholed into this one ministry, which makes it hard to advocate for because it's not an easy soundbite.

NK: So, you didn't get any assurances, it sounds like, out of that meeting?

AG: I think that she will advocate for us, but I know that in Manitoba we have a lot of pressing issues and I think every dollar that gets invested in research is a dollar that isn't getting invested in, you know, reducing our ER wait times. And I completely understand what those issues are and I'm completely empathetic to my colleagues who are working in these other spaces where you might think that there's a more direct benefit on people's lives. But as a researcher, and it's just looking at the economic numbers of what investing in research does for society, I don't think it has to be either or.

NK: I spoke with Brad Wouters from the University Health Network in Toronto on our show yesterday. And he, like others who we've spoken to, say this is a moment, an opportunity for Canada to strengthen its research by recruiting early career scientists from outside Canada. He did say there should be additional support for researchers who are already here. In your view, what do you think Canada should do to capitalize on this moment?

AG: I think Canada should double the tri-council research budget, and I think all of that money should go to the open calls that anyone can apply to, not just the boutique programs. Because scientific breakthroughs don't happen because someone says that they're going to fund a breakthrough. You can't say, here's a million dollars to develop the next canola, or here's five million dollars find the next ozempic. It comes from funding the basics, it comes from the fundamentals, and that's where transformational research comes from.

NK: Aleeza, thank you so much for this. I'm glad we could speak.

AG: Thank you so much.

CH: Aleeza Gerstein is an associate professor in Microbiology & Statistics at University of Manitoba. She and hundreds of other researchers signed an open letter calling on the provincial government to increase funding to Research Manitoba. We reached her in Winnipeg.

[eeire instrumental]

Clem Burke Obit

Guest: Fred Armisen

[Heart of Glass by Blondie/disco pop]

CH: This is Blondie, of course, with the 1979 hit Heart of Glass. It’s one of four #1 hits the band had in rapid succession. And they were pop hits, but Blondie was no ordinary pop band. They came out of the same arty New York punk scene that produced the Ramones and Talking Heads, and hit it big with ground-breaking experiments, incorporating disco, and reggae, and early hip hop into their downtown sound. And the band's versatility was due in no small part to drummer Clem Burke. His bandmates referred to him as the "heartbeat" of the band this week, when they announced that Mr. Burke had died at age 70, after a battle with cancer. Mr. Burke was the consummate drummer's drummer -- explosive and exciting, but in total control at all times. And among his many friends and fans is comedian and drummer Fred Armisen. We reached Mr. Armisen in Los Angeles.

NK: Fred, for our listeners who may not have had the chance to see Clem Burke in action. When you close your eyes, and you think of Clem Burke behind that kit, what do you see?

FRED ARMISEN: I see him at a more recent concert, a Blondie show I saw at the Greek Theater.

NK: Oh wow!

FA: Where I got to sit on the side of the stage, focused on him, and he was playing with such fervor that he almost looked like he was dancing as he was playing the drums. And I know that's like two different kinds of images, but by dancing I mean like thoroughly enjoying the song he was playing.

NK: When did he first enter your life?

FA: In 1979, when I was a kid, I saw him on Saturday Night Live. They do the song, Dreaming, and the camera pulls out from his kick drum. This is like, the intro was like, oh, this is drum-centred. It's almost like the camera person was saying like, okay, but check out the drums. [NK chuckles] But there was something about his red drum kit and the way he was dressed and the way he moving that was brand new to me. I was like, what is this, like, fashion? [NK chuckles] He had like a kind of a beetle haircut or a mod haircut. What is this? Like, what is version of drumming? It really set me off to, like, wanting to be a drummer. It was like really like, ah man, that's exactly what I wanna be. And then later in my life, like when I went on to do Portlandia, when people would focus on Carrie as a sort of centre of the show, I was like, yeah, I wanna be Clem Burke to what Debbie Harry is. I want to be the Clem Berke of Portlandia.

NK: He guided your drumming and your acting and your comedy. You wrote that you used his signature sticks at the SNL 50 show. What does it feel like to use those signature sticks?

FA: Well, you know, because he had health issues, Blondie couldn't play. But Blondie is like, to me, such a huge part of SNL. So, I was like, okay, Clem Burke should be here. Clem Burke needs to be at this event, the 50th anniversary. I was, like, how about, what if I use his signature sticks. There's a version, you know, where it's like, at least he's represented for him. Like, I took a picture of the sticks and I sent it to him to be like, hey, just so you know, I used your sticks. Like, I wanted him to know that he was there. And he was there just also as like, you know, the fact that, I mean, like, I became a drummer because of Clem Burke.

NK: And what did he say, if you're comfortable sharing?

FA: Ah, he was really, really happy. And then, you know, as I was telling people that like, hey, I did that, they knew because he showed them the photo. So, that made me happy.

NK: I bet. What was he like to hang out with?

FA: Oh man, he was the best! He was like everything you wanted from a person because he was a music nerd. He was a fan. He's like a walking, excited encyclopedia of pop and punk. It was the best. And I remember we were talking about an HBO show that was about music. And he's like, I like that show. Yeah, I like it. You see that they even mention a Jeff Starship and I'm like, I'm what is Jeff Starship? He's like, that's Joey Ramone's first band. He knew, he was such a nerd -- I mean, nerd, I'm saying in a good way -- that he knew, as he watched TV about music, he already had the checklist in front of him. Like, okay, you're going to mention this band. It was the best, the best. The mod esthetic, the punk esthetic, whatever it is, he'd lived it. And the way he'd like celebrated Keith Moon, it's the best version of being influenced by somebody.

NK: And then, he's got that picture which you took in his area backstage when you were spending time that he has pictures of Keith Moon.

FA: Well, yeah. Because being on tour, you really want to scale down. You don't bring too much stuff. You got your toiletries. The fact that he had the wherewithal to like, okay, I'm gonna bring two framed pictures of Keith Moon. That's dedication. By the way, not for show, it's in his dressing room. So, he's not even showing off. He's like, this is my private motivation to perform. That's amazing.

NK: Are you going to keep those pictures with you when you perform?

FA: Now i have to, right? [NK chuckles] Now, I gotta, I gotta, like, frame some pictures of him, carry all that extra luggage just because of him. I got, I got to play with him, too. Like, I did some shows as, like, just this character I did for SNL doing british punk, and he was the drummer. So, I got to play drums, you know, I got to play music with him.

NK: Were you flipping out? Were you nervous? I mean, how do you keep. I mean you know how to keep cool. You perform. You're a seasoned live performer. But, I mean, this is Clem Burke.

FA: It's the weirdest thing. It's actually like a mix of, like, knowing somebody so well without him realizing it. Like I knew him, I knew his drumming so well that it made perfect sense to me. So, it felt natural. So, when it comes to playing music, like I had to, I put that aside and thought like, of course, these songs sound great with him playing. Of course, they do. I don't, I didn't have to explain anything to him or describe what I'm looking for. It was like, at the sound check, I took this opportunity because there was a drum kit there and that he was there. I was like, will you please, do you mind showing me how you play this song, Shayla? It's from Eat to the Beat. And I played it for him. I was, like, are you doing this or are you doing that? And then he, like was so patient and was like, oh yeah, I'll show you. And he sat down, and I, just every opportunity I could, I wanted to know from him how he did songs. And like, and now you, if you look online everyone is writing all these beautiful, writing such beautiful things about him about his drumming and his fashion sense. And I love that. I love it. Like, you know, he's not one of those people who it's like, oh, he was underrated, or like, I wish he got, you know, he was in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, he was celebrated, everyone knew it. And the way that they featured him on records and on tv, the way that Blondie featured in was they appreciated it and celebrated it. How nice for him that it wasn't like, I wish more people knew about him. No, all the greats bow down to him. All the greats celebrate him. And it isn't that great that in his lifetime, he knew how loved he was.

NK: That's a beautiful thing. It's a powerful thing. There's so many wonderful songs. Is there one that you would like us to play?

FA: Union City Blue. Union City Blue. Union City Blue is his masterpiece. Masterpiece of drumming. It's like a tornado. It is like you're being sucked up into a tornado of drumming. It features him without it being a drum solo. It wasn't like, let's give, let us do a drum solo. it was more like, it will be throughout the song. And it is like you are in a tornado up into heaven.

NK: Fred, I very much appreciate your time. Thank you for this.

FA: Oh, thank you. And thank you for doing this. He would be so happy. This is so wonderful that you're doing this, so I'm thanking you.

CH: Drummer and comedian Fred Armisen, remembering Blondie drummer Clem Burke.

[Spanish guitar]

Part 2: Gaza Paramedics Attack, Mennonite Vaccine Hesitancy

Gaza Paramedics Attack

Guest: Nebal Farsakh

CH: They went out on a rescue mission -- and they never returned. The Palestinian Red Crescent Society is calling for an independent investigation into the deaths of 15 Palestinian medics and rescue workers, who were killed by the Israeli military in Gaza last month. In the week-and-a-half after the incident, the Israeli military said that some of the rescuers were Hamas militants in unmarked vehicles "advancing suspiciously" on Israeli troops. Then footage was released, showing that that version of events was not true. Since then, the IDF has announced an investigation. Nebal Farsakh is a spokesperson for the Palestine Red Crescent. We reached her in Ramallah.

NK: Nebal, how are you and your colleagues doing? This is obviously a deep loss for your team. How are you doing?

NEBAL FARSAKH: Well, it's actually heart-breaking, and it is the largest number of colleagues we lost in a single incident. We'll try our best to keep working, then keep going on, but it's just too much for us. We literally can't bear losing more colleagues. It's just tragic to see our colleagues losing their lives while they are trying to save other people's lives. And shocking and horrific, especially after watching the video that was documented by one of our colleagues who also was killed at this incident. Watching the video itself and hearing the sounds of continuous gunshots, it was hysterical. Like, I can't imagine how horrific their last moments are, especially that he documented everything, how they were scared, trying to reach the targeted vehicle, they were trying to evacuate our wounded colleagues at that time. They were trying their best to reach them out and then it turns out that themselves were killed too.

NK: They were praying while driving and hoping to stay safe. But clearly, they were very worried as they drove through the night. It is difficult to watch as someone who is not part of your team and to hear those gunshots go on and on.

NF: It's just like you feel every single bullet, it comes right away to your heart. I can't even imagine how much, like, their last moments, I'm not sure if they die right after the attack, what happened, how much they bleed before they die. And watching the full movie that documents their fears, their pain. It's just literally heart-breaking, even when they were talking about the fuel, like do you think the ambulance have enough fuel to reach the location? It's truly right to comprehend that.

NK: The IDF, as you know, continues to make allegations about some members, some of the people who were killed, without proof. What do you say as you continue to hear those kinds of allegations?

NF: Well, what I say, the whole world saw what the Israeli narrative was at the beginning of the incident. They claimed that the ambulances were moving suspiciously without turning on emergency lights. And then, this video documented by one of our medics who were killed in this attack came in to reveal the truth, and came in to show everyone that our ambulances who have the protective emblem, the Red Crescent emblem, were following all the humanitarian protocols. And despite following all of these humanitarian protocols, they were targeted.

NK: Even with the video, as you know, they continue to to claim without proof that six of the workers were not humanitarian workers. How do you, what do you say to them?

NF: What I say, I think the video reveals the full truth, as you can hear the last words of our colleague, Refaat. His last words when he was saying goodbye to his mom, he was saying, please forgive me, Mom, forgive me. I chose this path because I want to help people. I want to save lives. And this is the true message for Refaat and my colleagues who were killed during this incident. They only wanted to help people and to be on their side in these toughest moments. That's why we insist, we call on the international community. We want independent international investigation.

NK: I did want to ask you about the investigation, but just in terms of your colleagues, their ages, who they were, can you give us a sense because these are human beings with families?

NF: Most of my colleagues are between 20s and 30s. My colleague Raed, he was first responder and photographer as well, so he joined the team, document their moments. I was working closely with him. He was so excited, a young man, at the beginning of his 20s. Unfortunately, he lost his life during this attack. Refaat was also an energetic person, full of life. His mom was always worrying about him working as a paramedic. It's a dangerous job, and that's why you can hear clearly his last words to her to ask her to forgive him as he also lost his life. Also, my colleague Saleh Muammar, he was injured at the month of February when he was part of a humanitarian mission, which was also a coordinated mission. And this time, it was coordinated by the ICRC, approved, and unfortunately a convoy of ambulances came under heavy gunfire. He was critically injured in his chest, and he had to stay two months almost hospital until he recovered. And he didn't hesitate one second to go back to the field.

NK: You're calling -- the Red Crescent, the Palestinian Red Crescent - is pushing for an independent investigation. Who would run that and what do you hope it will lead to?

NF: We hope this investigation will lead to accountability. We hope that this investigation will lead all those who are responsible for this crime to be held to account.

NK: Do you have confidence, given everything that has happened, that even if an inquiry were to come, despite the ICC warrants as well, you know, we're hearing some pushback from German officials, there's headlines and outcry around the world, certainly, but are you hopeful that there will be enough pressure to get the answers that you're looking for and the justice you want for your colleagues?

NF: Unfortunately, I don't. Because we have been calling the international community for over 16 months to protect my colleagues, to protect medical personnel, and what happened? We have lost more colleagues. There is no way, no way that this attack was an error, an individual error or a single attack. It was deliberate attacks that led to the killing of eight of my colleagues. And we should see accountability.

NK: Nebal, I very much appreciate your time. I know this wasn't easy for you. So thank you. Please take care.

NF: Thank you.

CH: That was Nebal Farsakh from the Palestine Red Crescent. We reached her in Ramallah.

[acoustic guitar]

Space X-Ray

CH: Most of us have gotten an X-ray at some point in our lives, at the dentist's office, the hospital, doctor's office. But the places we got our X-rays all have one thing in common: they are on the planet Earth, which is where the vast majority of us are at the moment. But now, astronauts have shown it's possible to take x-rays not on Earth. A Canadian-made device performed the first-ever X-ray in space, aboard the SpaceX Dragon capsule, which landed off the coast of California last Friday. The technology was developed by a tech company based in Waterloo, Ontario -- in collaboration with researchers at the University of Waterloo. Professor Karim Karim is the founder and chief technology officer at KA Imaging. He told the CBC why X-rays are needed in space.

KARIM KARIM: There are well-known studies that show in low gravity or zero gravity environments, astronauts lose their bone mass and bone density. And this is a problem because oftentimes when you see them come back to Earth, they have even trouble climbing out of the shuttle. And that's because things have changed. So, monitoring bone density is very important. It can allow for the correct exercise regimen, or potentially pharmaceutical intervention. This is the very first X-ray in space. It's quite momentous, actually.

CRAIG NORRIS: Yeah, why is it just that the method never worked and yours does?

KK: No, I don't think that's quite it. I think any x-ray would work in space now that we've seen one done. I think the main reason people didn't do x-rays in space in the past is because of the weight associated with x- ray machines.

CN: Right.

KK: Because the x- ray sources and the detectors were really heavy. What we've done is we've brought a very lightweight system to the market, and we've also got a very unique capability that no other x-ray has. We're the only one where you can get a bone density measurement with the x-ray. Now mind you, this is research. But we can do it. And so, this is the reason why we were selected.

CN: So, give us a sense of, of then what it does look like. I mean, how does it differ than the X-ray machines that I'm sure everyone's picturing in their heads.

KK: Yeah, everyone thinks of x-ray, they think of a room, they think of giant x-rays source, they see these wall stands, this is very different. All you've got in your hand is a plate, and you've got a source that you can carry in your hand. The total weight of something like this would be probably in the 25-pound range all in. And that still is too heavy, we're told. We're told we need to miniaturize even more to make this more of a regular occurrence in space. But they're super simple. You can't really get a radiologist up there easily. And so, you need something on the tool that's able to give you decision support in the moment while you're waiting for an answer from Earth.

CH: That was Karim Karim, the founder and chief technology officer at KA Imaging, speaking to Craig Norris, host of The Morning Edition in Kitchener-Waterloo.

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Mennonite Vaccine Hesitancy

Guest: John Dueck

CH: Robert F. Kennedy is reminding people in Texas that, quote, "The most effective way to prevent the spread of measles is the MMR vaccine." Unquote. And that would be unremarkable if someone other than him was saying it. But up until now, the U.S. Secretary of Health and Human Services has been part of a group of Trump administration officials and influencers touting the very vaccine misinformation that has contributed to a measles outbreak in Texas. And now, two children there have died of the disease. On Sunday, Mr. Kennedy attended a funeral for eight-year-old Daisy Hildebrand in Seminole, Texas. In February, six-year-old Kayley Fehr died. Both children were unvaccinated. And both were members of a Mennonite community in the Seminole area. A community John Dueck knows intimately. Mr. Dueck is the Manitoba-based editor of the Low German newspaper, the Mennonite Post, which is distributed in Mennonite communities across North America. He visited Seminole last month. We reached him today in Steinbach, Manitoba.

NK: John, I know your recent trip to Seminole was not the same as your usual visits. What did you do differently?

JOHN DUECK: Yeah, so my trip to Seminole and Kansas was planned many months ahead, so we actually started the planning last year already. And so, initial plans were just to visit Low German communities out there. We have many readers from our Mennonite Post or from the Mennonitenposten. So, end of February, things were changing. We heard about a measles outbreak in that area. So, we, like normally, we would go, or I would go and stay at the families' home and would stay with those families, like even even for the night. And so, we asked now to provide us with the hotel, and so that we could be out of the sickness, like not to have the contact with those families, mostly kids that are home and are suffering.

NK: You were there before Daisy Hildebrand's death, but after Kayley Fehr died. What were people there saying? How were they reacting to the fact that two Mennonite children have now died because of this outbreak?

JD: Well yeah, so I consider myself as an editor. And this is, I'm not a health agent or media person. But I talk to people, and I ask people in Seminole about the case from those childs that died. And I would say this is the decision not to be vaccinated is not made by any theological thinking, like, or that they would say, like, we can't be vaccinated because we in our church they wouldn't allow that. It's nothing about that. I even talked to elderly people, like one of our readers, and she said, I'm vaccinated. And there are people vaccinated, but mostly younger people were not vaccinated. And yeah, they have different issues or they have ideas on that. But most of the people, what I understood is just that they are, they are afraid to get vaccinated because they think that's something that could lead into more difficulties in their lives, especially if they are vaccinating babies or young kids, yeah.

NK: What is your advice, John, to public health officials in the U.S. and here in Canada about how to reach people in the community to, you know, talk to them about misinformation and the realities and how to keep themselves safe? What's your advice?

JD: First of all, my advice is not to be judgmental if you want to talk to them. That's something that I talked to a health official also in the U.S. and that's what I see. Like, if you are going to approach these communities, you have to understand them in a way why they are making these decisions. But in one of my articles I just published is that, that we are encouraging them not to travel or not even now in Easter time, family gatherings -- bigger family gatherings -- will happen. That they should be careful, really careful. If they have somebody that has measles, they shouldn't go out. So, that is some part I try to explain. And I say that getting the vaccine could be helpful. And because I just told them, you know, I'm, I'm, when I was young, my parents, they made a decision to get the vaccine for me. And I'm happy for that. Just with the example, and not to say them, you have to, or this is the only way. But I encourage them not to hurt. If you love, even we should love our enemies, and we should love each other. And so, we shouldn't be harmful for our neighbours.

NK: Ontario's Chief Medical Officer of Health, Dr. Kieran Moore, you may have seen or heard, warned a measles outbreak in this province appears to have had its start at a Mennonite gathering that happened last year in New Brunswick. Are you worried, John, that we might start seeing deaths here in Canada?

JD: I hope it's not, but it could. Yeah, it could. Because the immune system, that all plays together, yeah. If people are getting sick on measles, that can be deadly. And that's an article I had in the previous issue. I asked my doctor. So we have a doctor that... that speaks Low German and knows about these conservative colonies, Low German communities. And I asked him to write an article about that. And he is mentioning that we're clear that measles can be deadly and we should be very careful. And yeah, I'm not saying that is going to happen, but it could.

NK: John, I'm glad to have you on our show. Thank you for your time. Please take care.

JD: You're welcome.

CH: John Dueck is the editor of the Low German newspaper, the Mennonite Post. We reached him in Steinbach, Manitoba.

[chillhop house tour music]

U.S. Trade Rep

CH: Today on Capitol Hill, Jamieson Greer wanted to talk about Main Street, not Wall Street. During a Senate finance committee hearing, Donald Trump's top trade representative was trying to push the message that the U.S. President's trade war would end up helping small town America. But given the rocky recent days on the stock market, and warnings of a possible recession, it was a bit of a hard sell. Especially to some Republicans, who are already looking ahead to the 2026 midterm elections. Like North Caroline Senator Thom Tillis -- who questioned what he called the "alla prima" approach to sweeping tariffs with no exceptions.

SOUNDCLIP

THOM TILLIS: It looks like we've got a novel approach here in terms of an alla prima approach. I'm not a trade expert and I'm gonna question it at this point. I do have a question about, at the end of the day, the other thing in management consulting we like to focus on is this concept of one throat to choke. In other words, when you're finally taking a look at a strategy, someone has to own it. In this scenario, the decision maker who decided the alla prima approach, who is obviously had to have spent time anticipating what we saw in the markets and some of the pushback. I'm assuming this all got gamed out. Whose throat do I get to choke if this proves to be wrong?

JAMIESON GREER: Well, Senator, you can certainly always talk to me, but I --

TT: But are you at the tip of the spear?

JG: Well, I'm at the tip of the spear, certainly.

TT: Did you propose the alla prima approach?

JG: So, first of all, I would push back, Senator, just a little bit on this. For now, we've excluded pharmaceuticals and semiconductors to take a different kind of approach, and we've excluded USMCA --

TT: Well, that's good because it lets me get to another question. Section 232 and 301, I overheard you say that maybe, or I thought I heard you say in response to another question, that for the near term there won't be any exclusions. Is that true of China where they have said the U.S. is unilaterally bullying and completely groundless and they're going to fight to the end? Are the 232 and 301 tariff exclusions on the shelves until we get to a reasonable agreement with China. I'm just trying to answer a question that I have several people in North Carolina asking.

JG: So, the president, again, is the final decision maker on all of these things, and he has directed that they're not the exclusions or exemptions.

TT: There will not be any exclusions on steel, aluminum, or any products that are only manufactured in China for the foreseeable future until China determines what the end is. Because they said they're going to fight to the end. Again, I'm just trying to communicate questions that I've asked, so there will be no exclusions.

JG: Yes, that is the president's policy

TT: So, it just seems like, again, I am getting my head around the alla prima approach. I'm not condemning it because I'm a not a trade expert, but I still, at some point, and I understand that you are the trade rep. So if you own this decision, then I'll look to you to figure out if we're gonna be successful. If you don't own the decision, I'm just trying to figure who's throat I get to choke if it's wrong. And who I put up on a platform and thank them for the novel approach that was successful if they're right.

CH: Republican Senator Thom Tillis questioning U.S. Trade Representative Jamieson Greer in Washington, earlier today.

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Part 3: Avian Flu Migration, Science Of Coffee

CDN Linemen

CH: It's not unusual for electrical linemen to help out their counterparts in neighbouring jurisdictions in the aftermath of a storm or some other major outage. But you may have noticed that neighbourliness ain't what it used to be. Still, when Rob Brewer of Ontario heard that communities south of the border needed a hand getting back online after a recent ice storm, he didn't hesitate. Mr. Brewer is the president and CEO of P-U-C Services, the hydro and water utility for Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario -- which borders Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan.

SOUNDCLIP

ROB BREWER: We got a call from our neighbouring utility, which is Cloverland Electric, that they had been significantly impacted by the storm and they were requesting some assistance. And so, we asked our crews, we got some volunteers, which were five different PLTs who agreed to travel down and we coordinated getting them down there, which was some logistical challenges getting across the border and that type of thing. And then, they went down and did us all proud. And it's fantastic for them to go and assist, you know, our neighbours to the south here and to be able to help them get power restored to their community.

WARREN SCHLOTE: What do you think it says about the current state of affairs in our countries, where we see the governments at odds, but everyday people and organizations like yours are still willing to help out our neighbours?

RB: Well, you know, Warren, we've been here for 108 years. Sioux, Michigan has been our neighbour for 108 years as a utility. We're going to, there's going to be some ups and downs with respect to political leadership and that kind of thing. But, at the end of the day, our kids play hockey together. We visit quite regularly in both directions. And they really are our neighbours. And so, we get a call like that asking for help, we're gonna go. And I have no doubt that if we had made the call to them, that they would have been here as quickly as we were there.

CH: Rob Brewer is the president and CEO of P-U-C Services in Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario -- which recently sent a volunteer crew of linemen to Northern Michigan, to help restore power to residents there. He was speaking with the CBC's Warren Schlote. Patrick Shannon is a retired prosecutor from Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan -- and part of a group of Michiganders that purchased ads in Canadian newspapers to thank the Ontario utility workers for helping out, despite diplomatic tensions.

SOUNDCLIP

PATRICK SHANNON: Well, I'm just west of the Sioux. I'm still in Sault St. Marie, but I look over, I look at Canada every day. And I'm taking care of my grandkids today and they're Canadian. So, I mean, that's just the way we are. That's the way it goes up here. And I noticed, I started noticing the people that you don't see the Ontario license plates at Walmart and Meijer Market and Thrifty Acres anymore or around town. They're just, Canadians aren't coming over. They're frightened. I was in law enforcement for a hundred years. I mean, I was like the crown attorney here. I was the county prosecutor. We had these working relationships. It's, there's this free flow of transportation, and, I thought it would be just a good gesture to thank the Canadian people who came over during the ice storms. And it was, it's devastating. I mean it's been two weeks. I know someone who hasn't had heat for two weeks finally got the power on today. So, the Ontario people coming over to assist was just an indication of how we work together. We need each other, just especially up here. And this kind of underscored that we need each other.

CH: Patrick Shannon is a resident of Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan.

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Avian Flu Migration

Guest: Ray Nickel

CH: With spring on its way, the dangers of the avian flu are a big concern for farmers across Canada. The highly pathogenic disease, also known as H5N1, has infected over 14 million birds since the first case was detected in 2021. And according to the Canadian Food Inspection Agency, more than half of those birds were in B.C. Ray Nickel is a third-generation poultry farmer and a member of the B.C. Poultry Association. We reached him in Abbotsford, B.C.

NK: Ray, obviously a lot of people are excited that warmer weather is coming eventually, but I know also for you and your fellow farmers, the reality is birds are going to be heading here. How are you feeling about what those birds might bring?

RAY NICKEL: Well, since we've been experiencing some of the dilemma over the last number of years, unfortunately, whenever I see migratory birds moving, it does make me a little nervous.

NK: Tell us a bit more on why?

RN: Well, we've learned that the migratory bird, particularly waterfowl, can be carriers of the virus. And we've certainly experienced that, particularly in B.C. In the fall, when it appears when they move from the north to the south and they come back through this B.C. region. And so, it's unfortunate, but every time I see waterfowl flying over, it makes me anxious.

NK: And we've certainly been hearing about the stories about avian flu in recent months. How would you describe the risk level to British Columbia right now, but also Canada?

RN: We have in B.C., and also in other parts of the country, but particularly in B.C., we have an escalating scale of alert that we use when we monitor biosecurity. So we have a rising scale that puts in more restrictions and barriers on moving actually onto that farm. So, for example, we'll have farmers make sure they keep their gates closed. They won't let visitors, they won't anybody onto the farms. We call that like a red alert. And it seems that we're staying in red alert almost 24/7 now. We never seem to come out of red alert. At one time, it used to be that, you know, when you would see the migratory bird, and we knew there was a high-risk time, we would go into red alert. But now, it seems that we're pretty much on high alert all through the year.

NK: That's a lot of anxiety.

RN: Well, yeah, there just doesn't seem to be much of a reprieve in between those times. Part of it is, it's not necessarily bad that you're on alert with entry and exit on your farm and how things are moving off and on. That's part of the business. But that expectation or that uncertainty of not knowing is where you really experience anxiety and stress, especially in farming practices. Because we like certainty.

NK: Yeah, that relentless state of red alert. Beyond that, you've also experienced directly on your farm the effects of this.

RN: Yeah, so I know what this looks like and what it feels like. It's not something that you want to go through and you don't wish this on anybody.

NK: What did you have to do?

RN: Well, I mean part of the reason that I'm in farming is because I enjoy working with animals. And one of the things that, you know, that we like, I don't get to go shopping all the time, but when I get to with my wife, with Linda, then it is maybe a little annoying for her but I enjoy watching people pick chicken and turkey and eggs off the shelf because I know that that could possibly come from my farm. when you have to put an entire flock down because of the risk and the disease, I mean it is the right thing to do, that just doesn't feel very good. But that's the way that we have to deal with it right now. So we use a humane way of disposing, and CFIA and ministry involved, the shutting down of your operation. So there's a clean and disinfecting process that you have to go through, timing, it's just a lot of pressure on the farm and on your management and labour.

NK: Tens of thousands of chickens in 2022, roughly 9,000 turkeys in 2023. Have your operations recovered from all of that?

RN: Yeah, our operations have recovered from those previous incidents. And the way that CFIA and the provincial ministry and industry here at large work together is quite remarkable and efficient. We've learned how to do this in a way that manages the risk and also allows producers to get back into business. And there still is that stress and, you know, certain amount of adrenaline when that happens to you that, you know, oh, it's me, I got to get this cleaned up. And then, you know, for fellow producers, as you can imagine, well, could it be me? What happens now when my neighbour gets, you know, if he gets infected? How do I protect my operation? Can I protect my operation because, you know, this last go around, we had a lot of layer operations that were impacted. It appears as though there may be a certain amount of aerosol part of it. So, we're now looking at how do we protect ventilation and what do we do differently with our operations.?

NK: In terms of the spread, you mean?

RN: In terms of the spread and the risk.

NK: And so, what kinds of things are you putting into place now for that?

RN: Well, ongoing reviewing our biosecurity programs is something that we always do, so we already manage changing boots, clothes, those sorts of basics when you move in from the outside to the inside, so that's protecting the actual entryway in. Now we're starting to look at what we can do on possible filtration, air coming into the facilities, those sort of things that would mitigate some of the risk of the virus moving through the air.

NK: And in terms of bird flu, what are farmers telling you about? I mean, there are small operations, there are bigger operations. How are they bracing for the impact?

RN: Most all our farms across Canada, particularly in B.C., are family farm operations. And that's part of the strength of the community. But that is your livelihood. And so, that degree of stress obviously is there and we've been learning to live with that for the last number of years as we face this, you know, this stress. But we've also been coming up with different ways to try and manage it, knowing that we have collaborative partners with the government and CFIA ministry, how we deal with it, that does allow us to continue to operate.

NK: Ray, I appreciate your time, thank you.

RN: No problem. Yeah, thanks for the call.

CH: Ray Nickel is a poultry farmer and a member of the B.C. Poultry Association. We reached him in Abbotsford, B.C.

[slow jazz]

Personal Care Homes

CH: Police are investigating some incidents inside Newfoundland and Labrador's personal care homes. And there are still a lot of unanswered questions. Last week, Nil talked to the province's auditor general, who'd just released a scathing report on the state of care homes. Denise Hanrahan's office found widespread issues in the homes, including neglected residents, dirty conditions, and errors delivering medications. Shaun Lane is the president of the Personal Care Home Owners Association of Newfoundland and Labrador, and owns three homes himself. He told the CBC the report's findings were jarring.

SOUNDCLIP

SHAUN LANE: First of all, let me say, when the auditor general let us all know that they were doing this report, as an industry, we were very happy to hear this. Because, you know, you do know, number one, that you obviously hear challenges at times, and you want these challenges addressed. But, you know, sometimes having someone look over your shoulder and make sure you're doing things right is a good thing, and we certainly as an industries welcome that as well.

KRISSY HOLMES: You know, the report uncovered some incidents that warranted police investigation, as we've learned. I mean, just help us understand, how could things get to that point? I mean, from your perspective, just help understand how we got there.

SL: And I guess, you know, I spoke to someone earlier from your station about, you know, my initial reaction to this. And a part of this is shock because, you know, have been in this industry now nearly 20 years. And, you know, you're dealing with so many people across the island, we're dealing with thousands of residents, thousands of staff. I'm surprised that certain things weren't reported. There is a standard that we have to do. There is a protocol and a, you know, when something happens, there are these things you're supposed to be doing next. And to hear that they may not have happened in some facilities, it was very disturbing. You know in saying that, you know, I've been at this a while and so you hear lots of things. And, you know, I certainly would be shocked if some of these, what I refer to as more serious incidents have happened without any police notification or intervention. I would be quite shocked if those things aren't already, have not already been reported. I really would be.

KH: Well, what have you heard from other personal care homeowners since this report's been released?

SL: I think a lot of people feel, you know, we are held under a very tight microscope, which for the work that we do, that's fine. It's an industry that definitely leads government oversight, government regulations, inspectors. We need all that stuff. We're dealing with some of our most vulnerable population. I think what a lot us thought was, you know, to be, all of us to be kind of judged together with maybe some that are not getting it right. That was a part of what a lot of people felt. Even some of our residents were really you know taken aback, and you know, but I feel safe here. But yet, you know, obviously this is happening somewhere. So, there's a bit of that as well. And then, among some of us as well it was like some of our staff were really feeling bad because they work very hard. Like, to work in a personal care home you need to be a special kind of person with some special giftings and compassionate. And, you know, to hear some of these things happening for a lot our staff they were just like wow, that's not where we are, or that's not where our workplace is. So, they were a bit taken aback by this, too.

CH: Shaun Lane is the president of the Personal Care Home Owners Association of Newfoundland and Labrador. He was talking to Krissy Holmes, host of On the Go.

[country]

Science Of Coffee

Guest: Arnold Mathijssen

CH: Drip, French press, espresso, cold brew. So many ways to make coffee -- and the best way is, of course, subjective. But the best way is obviously pour-over. I've always thought so. And now I am backed up by science. A new study published in the journal Physics of Fluids has discovered the secret to pouring a stronger cup of pour-over coffee. Arnold Mathijssen is a co-author of the study. We reached him in Philadelphia.

NK: Arnold, first things first, where are you at today in terms of number of cups of coffee?

ARNOLD MATHIJSSEN: Oh, I think this is my third coffee today now.

NK: Third, that's dangerous in this stage of the day. Okay. [AM chuckles] I've had two. We'll put that all on the table. I thought I already knew how to make the perfect pot of coffee. But tell us based on your research, how do you do it?

AM: Yeah, that's a good question. So, we were just working in the lab and we have a small coffee table there. And this is the place where usually conversations start. And so, we just wanted to improve our coffee a little bit day-by-day. And we found that if you hold up your kettle a little higher, then the flavour tends to get a little stronger. And so, the advice that I would give is to pour very slowly, first of all. Because the longer the pour time, then the more time there is for the contact between the water and the coffee grounds. And so, that increases the coffee extraction. But you don't want to pour too slowly because then you don't mix the grounds very well, and everything, you know, sediments down to the bottom. And so, that's where the height comes in. If you hold the kettle a little higher. then you get this avalanche effect. And then, all the grounds starts swirling around a lot and you get very good extraction that way. If you go too high, though, then you see that the water stream starts to break up into small droplets. And that's what you want to avoid. So, you want to pour as slowly as you can, holding the kettle as high as you and then making sure that the stream just about doesn't break up.

NK: If we're talking about pour-over, there are kettles specifically designed. They have goose neck. They look very nice. It doesn't have to be pour-over that you're making with that particular kind of kettle, but this technique could work with other types of kettles, or does it have to that specific kind of kettle?

AM: Oh no, it could definitely work with any kind of kettle. The nice thing about a goose neck is that it has a long funnel and that helps with keeping that stream nice and laminar, so that it makes sure that the stream doesn't break up into small droplets. But you could do it with any ordinary kettle as well, and then just be careful that the stream doesn't break up and it would be totally fine.

NK: And does it have to be, it has to be a pour-over kind of coffee? We're not talking about other kinds of coffee here?

AM: Well, so, of course, there's a lot of research on espresso as well. And then, that is a totally different system, or French press as well, then in in the end, what you want to do is you want to maximize extraction

NK: I use a gooseneck kettle with a French press, and I think it comes out great. It's not just about the taste. You're saying you can make a stronger, bold cup of coffee without adding more beans, provided you use this method, yes?

AM: Well, yeah, at least that's what we found. So, we see that we can get an increase in the extraction of about five to 10 per cent or so. And so, what that means is that if you were to use five to 10 per cent less coffee beans, then you could have a similar flavour with less material.

NK: The how of how you did this is interesting. It involves silica gel and a high-speed camera. Take us through it.

AM: Right, yeah. So, when you do a pour-over coffee, then you can't really see what's happening inside, right? So, initially we just noticed something in the taste, but then, you have to actually go and test it somehow. And the technique that we used is to use transparent particles. So, these are silica gel particles that have about the same size distribution as real coffee grounds. And then, if you mix that with water, then you can see what happens inside if you illuminate this with a laser sheet and we also use the high-speed camera. So then, you pour the water in, and you could really clearly see all the flow patterns that emerge inside the pour-over cone. And then the most surprising thing that we found is that there is this avalanche effect happening, that we see coffee grounds that are sliding down the side of the coffee cone, but then they get resuspended into the solution. And then, they kind of accrete back at the top, and then, they will avalanche down again, and this just keeps going and going, this continuous process of resuspension and avalanching down.

NK: You already loved coffee, clearly. Did this work increase that love?

AM: Yeah, definitely. I think, you know, first, you just try something.

NK: Maybe that's the caffeine talking at this stage. You are on number three.

AM: [chuckling] That's true. That's true. Yeah, I think I usually drink maybe three or four cups of coffee a day, start with one in the morning and then maybe another one around 10 or 11. And then, another one after lunch, and then one more after dinner.

NK: Do you sleep, Arnold? [chuckling]

AM: Yes, I do, thankfully.

NK: It doesn't affect your sleep, that many coffees?

AM: For me, that's usually fine. I think it increases one's love for coffee, but also for science in general. Because it's just really nice to see that there are new things still out there to be discovered, right? And just by looking at things slightly differently then suddenly you find this avalanche effect, or suddenly you find something you didn't quite expect. And so, it doesn't require fancy lab equipment, or expensive materials. And I think that's overall something that I very much enjoy about this area of kitchen science is that it can make science more accessible and approachable. And so, we often go to the local high schools here in Philadelphia and then we try to these little experiments to the students. And really, yeah, you see their excitement on their faces, there's new things to discover and then, yeah, it's also something that they can take home. It's not just an experiment that you do in the classroom and then you forget about it after, but it's really something you can go and show your family, show your friends, and then it can propagate that way.

NK: Great to speak with you, Arnold. Thank you.

AM: Oh, wonderful. Thank you very much.

CH: Arnold Mathijssen is an assistant professor of biophysics at the University of Pennsylvania. We reached him in Philadelphia.

[folk]

Smelling Drone

CH: We all have so many questions about moths. Why are some of them the size of birds, and why are those the ones that bump into your face in the dark? Why did they eat your favourite sweater, and not the stupid turtleneck you bought because you forgot you look weird in turtlenecks? Do you pronounce it "moths" or "mawthes"? We could list our moth questions all day, but one question would never come up: how do you build a moth? No one wonders that, because we have plenty, and moths do a competent job of building themselves. And yet, here are Daigo Terutsuki from Shinshu University in Japan, and his colleagues, constructing a high-tech drone that is basically a louder, bigger robot moth. Now, they weren't trying to make a moth. They were trying to make a drone that could navigate entirely by smell. Which could have important applications in situations where it's dark, or the drone is blindfolded. And they did something amazing: they incorporated an antenna from an actual male silkworm moth -- creating what they call a "bio-hybrid drone". This antenna is more exquisitely attuned to smell than any electronic device could ever be. But there's a problem: the male moth antenna is only attuned to one smell. The smell of a sex pheromone given off by female silkworm moths. So: will this incredible drone find amorous female silkworm moths? Yes. Will it find literally anything else in the world? I’m sorry, I didn't hear the question. Okay, I did. The answer is no. It just finds the moths. It is a genuinely incredible feat of science that is also almost entirely useless. So I salute the original idea -- but I have to question the moth-odology.

The AIH Transcript For April 8, 2025

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