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The AIH transcript for April 04, 2025

For more episodes of this podcast, please click this link.

NIL KÖKSAL: Hello, I'm Nil Köksal.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[theme]

CH: Tonight:

NK: Tumble-down economics. As global markets nosedive in response to Donald Trump's tariffs, one advisor says he's telling clients now's the time to focus on the forest, not the trees -- even if the trees are on fire.

CH: Powerless. A spring ice storm last weekend left hundreds of thousands of Ontarians in the dark. Cleanup crews are still working overtime to clear trees and restore power; one worker tells us about the damage he's seeing.

NK: Unsafe supply. A harm reduction worker in Newmarket, Ontario, weighs in on an increasingly toxic drug supply that is resistant to what has been one of the most useful tools she has to keep people alive.

CH: Making the nest of a bad situation. A Dutch researcher tells us he's gobsmacked by the garbage that birds are using in their nests -- not just because it's garbage, but because some of it is decades old.

NK: Bat out of hell. Louisville Slugger is now accepting pre-orders for the skyrocketing Torpedo Bat -- which has become a massive hit among baseball players hoping to hit massive hits.

CH: And...for pates' sake. After a series of attacks on bald men in a British village, a Harris's hawk seemed unstoppable -- until a hero improvises a capture. A hero named Harris.

CH: As It Happens, the Friday Edition. Radio that appreciates an ad hoc subtract-hawk solution.

[theme]

Part 1: Tariffs: Global Markets, Torpedo Bats, Bird Nest Trash

Tariffs: Global Markets

Guest: Earl Davis

CH: When news broke this morning that China would retaliate against US tariffs, it was pretty much a given that it would be another rocky day on North American stock markets. But "rocky" doesn't really cover what happened on Wall Street and Bay Street today. The Dow Jones index dropped well over 2,000 points. The TSX was down over 1,000. Those are the kinds of drops that conjure queasy memories of the early days of COVID and the 2008 market meltdown. Earl Davis is the head of fixed income & money markets with BMO Global Asset Management. We reached him in Toronto.

NK: Earl, I know you know well that different people react very differently to a day like this on the markets, even when it's a day or two. What is a day like this for you from where you're sitting?

EARL DAVIS: Well, I put the day like today in context of my career. I've been involved in the market since 1994. And I haven't seen many of these days, but I have seen these type of days probably about 10 times in the past 30 years. And one thing I could say, which hopefully gives comfort, is that the markets are now higher than all of those 10 times that I've seen. [laughing] And basically, what it says is over time, you will get back this money. That's what a positive growing country does, and we are growing positively. That is reflected back in equity returns over time.

NK: Even still, what kinds of phone calls are you fielding? [laughing]

ED: Yes. No, I'm feeling a lot of phone calls. So, one of the things that I say is that the markets flow in ebb. The other thing is that one thing reinforced by this equity market sell-off is the importance of diversification, having both equities and fixed income. Because fixed income has been rallying in this market with equity selling off. So if you have a balanced portfolio, the pain is not as bad as it may seem looking at equities alone. So, what I try to help people focus on is the forest, not the tree.

NK: How did that go over?

AED: That's very important. Easier said than done, easier said than done. But we see opportunity here now. you know, from a portfolio manager's perspective, it's a selective market. You have to pick and choose what you want, but you're getting things at better value, better price now, especially if you want to hold them for five to 10 years. So, don't forget that this does bring opportunity. There is a lot of short-term pain. I don't want to minimize that, but there will be a lot of long-term gain as well.

NK: In terms of the uncertainty and the threat of tariffs, we've certainly covered them on this program for weeks and weeks. They've been in the news for weeks and weeks. Why did we see the drops we're seeing right now? Is it because Trump came out with the sign and actually said the words?

ED: No, well, I think that the retaliatory tariffs that Trump came out with were significantly worse and more severe than the market was anticipating, specifically and particularly with China, very high tariffs there. And why that's concerning for the market is China is the second largest economy in the world, you know? U.S. is number one. So, with such high tariffs on China, that impacts not just Chinese growth, but global growth. They're such a large business partner. And I think what you're seeing in equities now is a reflection that, uh-oh, profits may not be as high. Because tariffs can also be viewed as attacks on corporate profits. The other thing impacting, and I think this is important too, is what you kind of mentioned before, the uncertainty. And we have uncertainty from the perspective we don't have any more clarity on what's going to happen next week. You know, Trump had his retaliatory tariffs. We're starting to see, China responded today. Other markets may respond next week. So, until we get that point of clarity, we will have uncertainty. And investors do not like uncertainty. What they do is they sell, like, equities and other holdings. You know, other risky holdings that they have, and they put all that money into T-bills in the money market. That's why we're seeing a record amount in T-bills and money market. The good thing about that, I'd say once there's stability in the market, either through lower monetary policy or more fiscal and federal stimulus in the markets, and there's certainty, when that money comes back into equities and other risk assets, I trade corporate bonds, I'm a fixed income portfolio manager, that will be a big boom as well then too. So, there's a number of things which tell me, yes, we're going to have lower growth, yes, we're going to have volatility, but I don't anticipate a recession, definitely not in 2026, and I think that's very important to remember.

NK: The Liberal leader, Mark Carney, has said the global trade system has fundamentally changed because of the tariffs coming from the United States, and from this administration. Do you feel that things are fundamentally different now?

ED: I fully agree with that comment. And what has changed is we were a global economy, which means, let's take autos, for example. It means if you're manufacturing a car, you didn't manufacture all the parts and pieces for that car in your country. We got them globally. Could be Europe, it could be Canada, it could Mexico, it was globally. What's happening now, that is no longer a viable model because it's too expensive. It will become less expensive to build everything within your country. So, that's changing. We're going from this global economy to a more insular economy. And what that means is countries have to look at ways to develop growth in different manners. We're seeing Canada with talk of bringing down the trade barriers, the internal provincial trade barriers, which I think is significant and good, a good thing. We have to work to become more productive in regards to being able to build more with the same human capital that we have. All countries are going through this, and all countries are now looking at it. So, what it does mean is it does mean a more expensive world. It's not gonna be as efficient to do it. It does mean more things will be built in the countries where you buy them.

NK: So, you got through today. What are you bracing for and looking for for when markets open on Monday?

ED: Uh, you know, when you close like how you did today, typically you open weaker the following week. So, I am bracing for further weakness at least Monday morning, but we're also putting together a list of things we want to buy when people are selling. So, I think there's opportunity to buy. I would expect to see a turnaround, at least a shorter-term turnaround. I don't think we're going to make new highs at some point next week. And then, what's to be determined is how persistent or resilient that turnaround will be. But right now, I'm definitely expecting more volatility going forward because there's still uncertainty in the market. I do believe there's long-term opportunity here.

NK: Great to speak with you, Earl. Thank you.

ED: No, a pleasure.

CH: Earl Davis is the head of fixed income & money markets with BMO Global Asset Management. We reached him in Toronto.

[chillhop house tour music]

Torpedo Bats

Guest: Bobby Hillerich

CH: The New York Yankees opened their season by hitting fifteen home runs in three games. And people weren't just excited about that incredible feat, they were excited about what they'd used to accomplish that feat: nine of those homers were hit using a Torpedo bat. And now, the Torpedo bat is the hottest commodity in Major League Baseball. Leaving the 41 MLB-approved batmakers scrambling to keep up with demand. Louisville Slugger just opened pre-orders today. Bobby Hillerich is the vice president of manufacturing and operations at Hillerich and Bradsby Co., the maker of Louisville Slugger bats. We reached him in Louisville, Kentucky.

NK: Bobby, I know you opened your pre-orders today for the Torpedo bats that you're making. How many people want one?

BOBBY HILLERICH: Before it opened, I was told there were over 1,500 pre-pre-orders before the site went live. It's been absolutely crazy in a wonderful way.

NK: How does this demand compare to, you know, you've been doing business a long time.

BH: Yes, I started with the Louisville Slugger, Hillerich and Bradsby in 1984, and I can honestly tell you that there's nothing that has stirred up this much interest in such a short amount of time since I've been here. And this is probably four times what we normally would have dealt with on any given launch day.

NK: Yeah. And this, this, this whole frenzy just started last week. So, how did you and your company pivot production that fast, and others as well have been doing this.

BH: It has been quite interesting. We were given permission to reduce the quantities of some of our launch bats. We were going to launch some private bats on June 1st, but they told us that we could use the wood that we had planned for that as priority, so we could satisfy the demand and the absolute craziness that's behind these bats.

NK: The fact that they're called Torpedo bats, I think, adds to the allure. It gives the impression that they are very powerful, and they can make the ball go fast. But for those who aren't familiar with them, what is the difference in the way they look and the way the feel compared to the bats we're used to seeing?

BH: So, the traditional bat, of course, starts out as your knob, then into the handle, then the taper, and then the barrel continues from the end of the taper to the end of the bat. And that's just been the tradition pretty much since my great-grandfather started turning bats in 1884. What this has done is the physicist that really started doing the work and the sports scientist filmed and did slow-mo cameras to see exactly where some of these major league players were hitting the ball on the bat. And some of them were not hitting where the true sweet spot of the bat was. So, what they did is they made a flare in the barrel probably six-and-a-half, seven inches from the end, and flared it up to a larger than the barrel size to give it more mass at that point. And then, the bat slowly tapers back down to a smaller diameter towards the barrel. And that, in essence, moved the sweet spot to where the batter was hitting the ball.

NK: And it's completely in line with league rules?

BH: Yes, yes, as long as it's a solid piece of wood, round, it must be able to roll. No double knobs or anything like that, but yes, it's absolutely conforming to MLB regulations.

NK: Is it, is it rare to have an innovation or change like this, that is, I mean, it seems so monumental. But obviously, it's not cheating, it's it adheres to the rules. It just seems like this doesn't happen very often that a change comes.

BH: So, it's, the last major change that we dealt with since I've been here was the transition from Ashwood that we used for 100 years, transitioning to Maple when Barry Bonds broke the home run record. But that transition took five to seven years before everybody said, oh wait, we really think Maple's a harder, better wood. So, that took a long time, but there's never been anything that hit on Saturday night and was a world phenomenon by Monday morning.

NK: [chuckling] What do you think you can attribute that to? Is it because it's the Yankees? Is it because we're in the social media age? What do think?

BH: I really do think that Cody Bellinger coming on strong, you know, making his debut for the Yankees and having such a phenomenal night with that bat, and then a supporting role by Austin Wells and a couple other gentlemen that have nine runs. For the Yankees being the team, I think that was a big deal. And yeah, the social media, the pictures being shared, and the talk about the new shape of the bat just really, really was fantastic. And then, our sales rep -- Louisville Slugger sales rep -- Kevin Erhan and our and our model developer Brian Hillerich went to the Reds because they got a call Sunday night and said we need you here Monday morning. So, they took the Torpedo bat up there. And Eli Delacruz had two homers, seven RBI's, and four out of five hits. So, he had a fantastic night with it. And that kind of solidified, you know, this has probably got some good science behind it.

NK: You mentioned the physicist a moment ago, Aaron Leonard, from MIT. He's also a pro baseball coach. He told reporters this week, quote, at the end of the day, it's about the batter, not the bat, unquote. What do you think? How much of this is the player, and how much is the bat?

BH: I think that the batter still absolutely has to do their job. You know, you've got to be a phenomenal player to be a hitter in the Major League Baseball anyway. There's 750 players, about 437 of them are actual hitters, so you've gotta be a great player to begin with. We're just kinda giving it a scientific advantage of taking advantage of where they're hitting.

NK: What do you think your great-grandfather would think of this innovation and what the bats look like now?

BH: [chuckle] He would love it. I mean, you know, anything that's good for baseball, anything that good for MLB and getting attention to the sport, he just was always passionate about it. Never missed an All-Star Game or a, or a World Series. He just loved it

NK: And have you held it in your hands and actually hit balls with it?

BH: You do not want to see me trying to swing a bat. [NK laughs] It is not a pretty thing. But yes, I have, I definitely had it in our hands. We have our hitting lab upstairs in our factory on our fifth floor. So, when we developed the retail model, we put a shape on there to best fit the, let's call it the average player as compared to a major league player.

NK: Bobby, a pleasure speaking with you. Thank you.

BH: Oh, my pleasure, too. I appreciate your all's interest.

CH: Bobby Hillerich is the vice president of manufacturing and operations at Hillerich and Bradsby Co. We reached him in Louisville, Kentucky.

[indie rock]

Bird Nest Trash

Guest: Auke-Florian Hiemstra

CH: When it comes to building their nests, coots are not fussy. But when it comes to researching coots -- which are black, duck-sized birds with red eyes and huge feet -- Auke-Florian Hiemstra is fussy: his research focuses specifically on the things that end up in the nests of coots. Including anti-bird spikes, which he told us about back in 2023. Now, Mr. Hiemstra's work is joining biology and history. Because it turns out coots also use a lot of garbage to build their nests. And in many cases, that garbage is surprisingly old. Auke-Florian Hiemstra is an urban biologist and a doctoral student at the Naturalis Biodiversity Center. We reached him in Leiden, in The Netherlands.

NK: Auke-Florian, this research in particular started with one nest. What about that nest caught your eye?

AUKE-FLORIAN HIEMSTRA: It's a very special nest because when we started collecting this nest, or should I say, excavating it, we reached nest layer after nest layer, and with every layer we went deeper in time. It turns out this nest is kind of like a history book, and you could just flip through it to, like, the start of the '90s.

NK: It was a chocolate bar wrapper from the '90s, remarkably, that you found, and we're talking about 2021.

AFH: Yeah, yeah. So in 2021, we collected the nest. Like in the earliest layer, we found a Marsh wrapper with a small logo of the FIFA World Cup, the World Cup from '94. And that's just wild to me, as the rapper looks so fresh or new. The color pops, you can read the text, yet you know by heart it's 30 years old. And that really for me gives the message that plastic is really here to stay. And it's wild that we use a material which can last a lifetime for just one single use.

NK: Yeah, it underlines a lot of things. And it's remarkable, but I know a lot of people listening will find it disturbing as well. But for you in this research, what do these items represent?

AFH: So, for me, this nest is very interesting as just by looking at expiry dates, we can not just say something about the last breeding season, but we can actually get the full history of this whole nest site. And so, by collecting this nest and sorting out all the materials, we got, like, stratigraphical layers, theological layers on top of each other being able to get this full picture of around 10 breeding attempts in the last 30 years. Then the nest goes back to the start of the '90s., And actually, at the end of the '80s, the first goods came into the city of Amsterdam. So, this nest tells the whole story of the whole history of this water bird in the city.

NK: Your enthusiasm for it -- your excitement -- is pretty infectious. Can you let our listeners in? Take us out on the water with you, if you could, so we can get a sense of what the process of collecting these nests and this research was like?

AFH: We go out on a boat, we looked for all the bird nests, we followed them with binoculars, with long lenses, not to disturb the birds, and only when the birds don't use it anymore, we come by with a boat. We collect these nests very carefully to dissect them back in the laboratories. But upon collecting this one, I suddenly had this wrapper in my hand, which is as old as I am, which is such a wild idea that this nest was, like, my whole life, there has been a bird nesting right there. And to make it even, even better, this nest was found right in front of Allard Pierson Museum, which is the big archeological museum of Amsterdam.

NK: How many nests did you end up collecting and examining?

AFH: Inner city, we collected around 15 nests, I think. But it's just wild if you imagine, like, how many plastics are in a single nest. So, this nest in particular, we found more than 600 items in there. And quite a lot are from the local McDonald's. It kind of felt like I'm kind of a McDonald's archeologist, [NK chuckles] Just studying wrappers, and lids, and sauce, and --

NK: And that was just one, that was just one nest, all of those artifacts?

AFH: Six hundred items, just one nest

NK: You also found, I mean, you found rappers, as we said, McDonald's and candy. Just take us through some of the other things they were made out of.

AFH: Everything that gets dropped into the canals may end up as being used by a bird for its nest. Like, fireworks in my bird nest, I have sunglasses, earphones, windscreen wipers from cars, I even have a seat belt from a car. So, I'm, piece-by-piece, I'm getting the car complete, but --

NK: Oh my gosh!

AFH: Yeah. For now, I just need to use my bicycle. [NK chuckles] So, it's wild. It really feels like it's your birthday and you can unwrap a present. It's always a surprise what you will find.

NK: masks, ripe avocado, I was reading as well.

AFH: Oh, for sure. Yeah. So, the nest is a time series. And also, the COVID pandemic was a big chunk of the nest. So, around 15 face masks were in the nest. And actually, reusing your nest kind of makes evolutionary sense. So, you can just reuse the base of the next of last year, add a few new pieces, so you have more time to defend your territory, to feed your young. However, if you're reusing the COVID nest layer with all these face masks, which are kind of like a small mattress, so it's nice to lay some eggs on it, maybe. However, every face mask has these elastic bands which are very easy for these cute but dinosaur-like big coot feet to get entangled in. And a nest should be a safe spot for their young

NK: And, you know, I remember our last conversation in 2023, you talked about how some birds were making nests with the very things that businesses and people often put up, those spikes, they were using those to make their nests. And you talked about how brilliant you thought that these birds are. Ultimately, though, I mean, again, it's disturbing that there's this level of trash around and in the canal for the birds to use. I mean they may bring things over as well. But ultimately --

AFH: Yes, the story of a bird nest made out of anti-bird spikes, that was a wild story as well.

NK: Yeah.

AFH: But the cool thing, I think, is that for these coots, it's not trash. It's valuable material for these animals.

NK: I mean, I hope people don't hear this and think they should just throw all of their trash in the canal because a bird might use it. But ultimately, do you think that this garbage -- this trash -- is a risk or an opportunity?

AFH: Well, that's the question. But first of all, I really hope we can learn something from these coots. And, in a way, I hope that we can re appreciate plastic, and also value it. And that we can use it maybe a bit more for not the single-use items for, but stuff, for stuff that we've use a long time. If it's a good thing or a bad thing, that is the big question of my research. Is it an adaptation to city life? Or is it like an ecological trap? And that's a big question that I'm not able yet to answer. But hopefully, in the future, I'll know more about that.

NK: Auke-Florian, a pleasure speaking with you. Thank you for coming back on the show.

AFH: Thanks so much.

CH: Auke-Florian Hiemstra is an urban biologist whose recent research looks into the garbage that coots use to build their nests. We reached him in Leiden in The Netherlands.

[electronic]

Harris Hawk Caught

CH: It's a beautiful day in Flamstead, Hertfordshire, England. So, you take your Tilley hat off and let the sun warm your head. It's a great day to be a tall, bald man -- until, very suddenly, it isn't.

[scary hawk call, tense music music?]

CH: From out of nowhere -- well, the sky -- a hawk divebombs you. You feel its sharp talons on your scalp, like steak knives attached to a bird. You touch the lacerations -- and your hand comes back bloody. So, you start to run, so fast that your feet are barely touching the ground -- only to realize that they're not touching the ground: the hawk has picked you up, and is flying home with you, where it will dismember you to feed its young. [music fades] Its cruel beak will tear through your flesh like a samurai sword through a diaper, its -- wait, why did you stop the music? What do you mean, "it's too much"? It's a true story! The hawk really was attacking tall, bald men in the village of Flamstead in recent weeks! Okay, I did get carried away: they didn't get carried away. But things…things did get bloody. Their assailant was a hormonal Harris's hawk, which attacked at least 50 men to impress potential mates during breeding season. And it seemed as though no one could stop its reign of terror. Until that Harris's hawk met its match: a hero named Harris. That's Flamstead resident Steve Harris. No relation to the hawk. Although he'd been watching the hawk like a hawk. And one day, it landed on his shed -- whereupon he threw a cage over it. A falconer came and took it away. Bird fine; problem solved. That simple, courageous act saved the village from further hawk-related hospital trips. So, we'll herald Steve Harris for hampering that Harris hawk's hairless harassment.

[Spanish guitar]

Part 2: Ontarians Without Power, York Region Overdoses

Ontarians Without Power

Guest: Steve Parfitt

CH: t's been nearly one week since an ice storm swept through central and northern Ontario, knocking out power for more than 400,000 households across the province, and leaving a tangled mess of downed trees and wires. And a lot of people are still trying to untangle that mess. Today, Ontario Premier Doug Ford visited the Orillia area to witness the damage caused by the storm -- and update people on when they can expect power to be restored.

SOUNDCLIP

DOUG FORD: I've been getting calls, as I was just telling the folks behind me, for the last few days every, I'm not exaggerating, but every 15 seconds, all day, all night. And it breaks your heart when you get a text message from someone saying, I have, you know, five in our family, three kids, and they're all huddling under four blankets. You want to go out there immediately and try to help everyone.

CH: On Monday, Nil talked to a woman in Peterborough who lost power during the storm. Now days later, states of emergency are still in place for the hardest-hit regions in Peterborough and parts of Simcoe County. Steve Parfitt is the owner of Aussie Tree care, a tree-cutting company. He's based in Perth, Ontario, but this week he's in Orillia and surrounding areas to help with the clean-up. We reached him in Penetanguishene, Ontario.

NK: Steve, I know you're in a bit of a lull right now. It's been pretty busy. How is the clean out going so far?

STEVE PARFITT: We're working hard, we're trying to put a dent in it, but the amount of material that is down and on top of houses is quite overwhelming. Yeah, there's a lot of work here.

NK: How has it been since you arrived? What is the typical day in this scenario?

SP: We're on the road by 6 a.m. Last night, we finished, I think, it was around about 7.45. It was a long day.

NK: How many properties were you at?

SP: We did six properties yesterday, all with major limbs on roofs. We had to brace the trees, trim the branches off, and then lower down the sections once they were clear of the roof, just so people could return back to their homes.

NK: They must be grateful when they can? [chuckling]

SP: Yeah, people have been so kind. Like, we've traveled all the way down from Ottawa to help out. And when people hear that, they're coming out with food, they are offering us drinks, you know, they've been incredibly kind.

NK: That's good to hear. How does this compare, though, I mean, the job you do, I've seen it in action with other companies, it's not an easy job. There's a lot of planning that goes into it, and then to execute it is another thing entirely.

SP: Yes.

NK: How does what you're doing now compare to what you've experienced before?

SP: It's very much more on-the-fly decision making. Because, first of all, you're dealing with something that has failed. And it's unpredictable where trees in a standing state are relatively unpredictable. But when they've failed like this, you really don't know how much material is doing its job. You don't how much of it is actually resting on the property or whatever. So, storm-damaged trees are pretty much the most dangerous things you can be dealing with.

NK: So, how do you keep yourself and your team as safe as possible?

SP: We obviously carry out on-site risk assessments. We'll do an aerial inspection with a bucket truck. Climbing the tree really is a last resort, but we will climb. And all we can do is really, is follow the processes of stabilizing the tree as much as we can before we put anyone's life at risk. Once the tree is stable, then we can start removing sections of it. But there is a lot of unknowns, and it's just years of experience, I guess. I've done storm work in the U.K. and in Australia, so this isn't my first rodeo. I've been doing it for 26 years. [laughing]

NK: And in those 26 years, how does this stack up to that?

NK: You're staying, while you're there, at a hotel -- the same hotel that Hydro One workers are staying at, as I understand it -- what kind of conversations are you having with them?

SP: So, at no interest, we arrived so late last night, we literally showered and went to bed. I was up early this morning, and I saw that there was a load of Hydro One guys there, and we just started chatting. And they asked where we were from, and I said we're from Lombardy. And they said, oh, I'm from Carlton Place. And it's like, it's just so nice to see that everyone's just mucking in and getting the job done. When I was chatting to the, there was a lead supervisor from Hydro One there, and I asked him how long does he think he's going to be there? And he said he didn't really know, but it felt like they were going to be there for a long time. There were so many poles down, and so much infrastructure that was damaged that he thinks it's going be months of work.

NK: And what about for you? How long do you think your work of clearing the trees will take?

SP: We're going to take it week-by-week. Simply because, at some point, we have a business to run back at home, but we're booked for this week. And if we can get on top of it, and Lakeside can carry on, then they will relieve us and we'll head off. But if they want us to stay, we're going dig in and help as much as we can.

NK: Steve, I appreciate your time, thank you for this.

SP: No worries.

NK: Take care out there.

SP: Thank you, bye now.

CH: Steve Parfitt is the owner of Aussie Tree care, a tree-cutting company. He's helping with the clean-up in the aftermath of an ice storm in central and northern Ontario last week. We reached him in Penetanguishene, Ontario.

[ambient]

Tariff Island

CH: It's a bit of a running joke that the French archipelago Saint Pierre and Miquelon -- while beautiful -- doesn't contribute much to the economy. And why would it, really, it's a small territory situated just off the coast of Newfoundland, with a population of about 6,000 people. And over the past decade, they've sold virtually nothing to the U.S. Which is why residents were flabbergasted to learn that the President of the United States had slapped 50 per cent tariffs on their island. It's one of many examples of the seemingly random calculations made by the administration -- which also put tariffs on islands inhabited solely by penguins. Longtime Saint Pierre and Miquelon resident Steve Le Bars reacted to the news -- and gave his hypothesis for why the island has drawn the ire of the president.

SOUNDCLIP

STEVE LE BARS: Well, to be honest, I was shocked. In another way, I was like, well, at least he's doing us promotion. He's promoting our island for us for free. [laughing] As I was a tour guide operator for almost 11 years, to be honest, it's a big point for us. It's a big, uh, it was a big go-go, right? Keep giving us some, uh, some boosts, right? But, first of all, it's like, why, why would you tax us? Because we're only 6,000 people, right? We loose more importing than exporting anything. Everything that comes over on the island is coming from Canada or Europe. And the U.S. products that we get, we get it from Canada. And we already pay taxes when we buy it from canada, so we're double-taxed. And why us? Why Saint Pierre and Miquelon? Is it because of the Prohibition back in the day?

PETER COWAN: You mentioned Prohibition there. For people who don't remember, what role did Saint Pierre and Miquelon have during U.S. Prohibitions?

SLB: Well, the U.S. Prohibition is when Al Capone made his entire movement. This is where Al Capone used to come back and forth here, and get dozens and dozens and tonnes of whiskey from us. Saint Pierre Miquelon was probably one of the major spots for the prohibition back in the day. We made millions from him, so he made millions from us. And ever since that day, we still have, as I say, probably the cheapest booze rate and cigarette rate in the world. Like, when you see the price of a 60-ouncer here, you understand why, to this day, we still have bootleggers coming back and forth from Canada. So, probably that, he still got a bit stopped up there. The fact that the little island of 6,000 people as a lot of Americans are being saying lately on all the social media, the island where all the penguins are too and all this. I've got one thing that I would like to share with all of them. Come over to our island and start eating lobsters, scallops, bread, pastries, and all those good food that we have here. And then from there, we'll see that we're big penguins. That we eat really well. [chuckling].

CH: That was Saint Pierre and Miquelon resident Steve Le Bars speaking with CBC Newfoundland and Labrador reporter Peter Cowan.

[lounge jazz]

York Region Overdoses

Guest: Valerie Kuye

CH: The overdose crisis is not remotely new. But there is a new wrinkle that is actually making a terrible situation even worse: the increasingly toxic drug supply appears to be compromising the efficacy of one of the tools most commonly used to reduce its harms. In a warning issued this week, police in Ontario's York Region are highlighting a spate of recent overdoses -- including three overdose deaths in the span of just 24 hours last month. And in one of those cases, police say a 44-year-old woman in Newmarket died of a fentanyl overdose despite receiving four doses of the ostensibly lifesaving drug, naloxone. Valerie Kuye is a harm reduction program manager at CAYR Community Connections in Newmarket. That's where we reached her.

NK: Valerie, I know it's been another busy day for you and your team. You, as we have seen, that this, this warning from York regional police, what have you been doing with your team?

VALERIE KUYE: Yeah, it's really been busy. We've been busy responding to the, to our community at this time, focusing on what community needs at this time, which is kind of our presence, to kind of show compassion on people, but also to respond to the high demand of drug testing kits, as well as naloxone. So, that's kind of what we've been busy doing at this time, trying to reach out to communities that are underserved, I would say. Mostly, people who are precariously housed and people who, who live remotely. Because, you know, York Region is set up that way. There's a lot of remote areas where people are unhoused or even housed but, you know, really remote and services don't easily get to them. We're trying to reach as many people as we can.

NK: So, you're handing out those drug testing kits so they can try to see if the, if the supply is, is safe.

VK: Yes. Absolutely.

NK: Are they aware of the warning from police?

VK: Some people are aware of the warning, some are not, but there's a community, right? And word gets out really fast. So, while we're doing outreach, we're also encouraging the community to tell other folks that they come across. So, people are kind of aware and see the need for the drug testing kits, which we've seen a spike in the demand for the past few days.

NK: We've had a lot of conversations on this program about the drug crisis. I've spoken to drug users, harm reduction workers, such as yourself, family members who've lost loved ones, as well as public health officials, politicians, even police. So, as you well know, none of this is new, unfortunately, and it's only getting worse in so many places. But this prevalence of overdoses where people don't respond to naloxone is newer. And what does that suggest to you about the toxicity of the drug supply right now?

VK: Um, it does, it does speak a lot, to be honest, right? It does speak a lot. I mean, for drugs that are tainted with other types of drugs, um, Naloxone is unable to respond to that. So, we're foreseeing a crisis, um that would be beyond our control if policy makers don't make, um, you know, kind of buy into harm reduction as a practice. Because harm reduction isn't just distributing the testing kits and the Naloxone. It's a bigger picture. It's a community crisis, to be honest. So, unless we respond to it as a community like we would every other crisis, we have a bigger problem in front of us.

NK: Do you see an openness to harm reduction programs expanding there?

VK: Yeah, yeah. In York region, I do see an openness to harm reduction program. As part of my role, CAYR sits on a community opioid drug response committee. And what we do as a committee is we look into various aspects of harm reduction and how that, how working together as a collective will benefit our community more. So, we go from responding to data that we collect, using that as an early warning, which you referred to earlier, we're sending out that message. And then, we address it from a preventive point of view. We also address the stigma associated to drug use because that in itself is a big problem, right? One aspect that we don't really talk about, but looking at treatment as a continuum of harm reduction. So, there's a lot of aspects to it. And as a region, we've kind of tried to educate ourselves. There are gaps, but we've educated ourselves to a point where there's collective response.

NK: Police in York Region are also trying to remind people about the Good Samaritan Drug Overdose Act. Can you remind listeners of how that law is supposed to protect drug users?

VK: So, for someone who uses, or probably is in possession of drugs but had called 911 because they were saving life, the Good Samaritan law protects that person from simple possession. So, what that means is they won't be prosecuted for having substance in their possession at the time at which they made that call. So yeah, we encourage people who use drugs and are in possession of drugs to help the next person dying beside them. And also, feel free to call the police because there's a law that protects them.

NK: I recently interviewed a firefighter in Saskatoon who, you know, he and his team -- his colleagues -- have been dealing with a similar spate of overdoses where responders are also having to administer repeated doses of Naloxone to no effect. He told us that his colleagues, understandably, are burned out. How do you protect your staff and yourself from that in these times, Valerie?

VK: There isn't any real protection. The burnout is real because we're facing the burnout from all angles, right? Yeah, you want to do the job but there are policies that, that binds you because it's a job. And then also, just kind of burnout from lack of enough resources to support people who are suffering. So, I don't think that such burnout is preventable. But what we try to do is support ourselves. And we've really been, as an organization, I would say we've been blessed with a community that trusts in us. So, just kind of going back into the community and see how they keep cheering you on to do the job gives us the grace to continue advocating for people who use substances. I guess we just kind of, I don't want to say suck it up, but yeah, that's, that's kind of the word i'll use. We just, we just show up every day, hold each other, and, and keep moving.

NK: I'm very glad we could speak. I appreciate your time, Valerie. Please take care. I hope you get some rest this weekend.

VK: Awesome. Thank you. It was nice speaking to you, Nil.

CH: Valerie Kuye is a harm reduction program manager at CAYR Community Connections in Newmarket, Ontario.

[jaunty instrumental]

Gregg Violin

CH: When the New York Times referred to a, quote, "aging celebrity who flew into New York on Tuesday, accompanied by a personal bodyguard, before taking up residence at a high-security location on the Upper East Side", unquote, they were not talking about Alan Cumming. First of all, that would have been rude. Alan Cumming is a sexy legend at any age. They were talking about a celebrity that will be sharing the stage with Mr. Cumming tomorrow. And frankly, it's fair to point out that that celebrity looks great for its age -- because its age is 270. It is the Gregg Violin -- that’s the instrument you just heard. And it's central to Scotland’s Hoolie in New York -- an event at Carnegie Hall on Saturday, in celebration of Tartan Day, hosted by Alan Cumming. The ornate fiddle is considered a national treasure in Scotland -- and once belonged to William Gregg, the dance teacher for one Robbie Burns. Scotland's National Trust says this is only the second time the instrument has ever made a cross-Atlantic voyage. The first time was in 2020, when one of Scotland's best-known fiddlers, Alistair McCulloch, played it in Central Park. From that performance -- and in anticipation of tomorrow's -- here's our Sound of the Day.

SOUNDCLIP

[a fiddle performance in Central Park by Alistair McCulloch]

CH: Alistair McCulloch, playing the Gregg Violin in 2020. The violin will be played by fellow Scottish fiddler Duncan Chisholm tomorrow night at the Hoolie at Carnegie Hall.

[sombre instrumental]

Part 3: Yukon: Jordan’s Principle, Research Investment

Yukon: Jordan’s Principle

Guest: Shadelle Chambers

CH: In recent weeks, the Council of Yukon First Nations has had to deliver some really hard news. The council administers a range of programs to families in the Yukon, which provide food, children's clothing, and short-term housing, among other things. But in recent weeks, it's had to halt some of those crucial services, due to a lack of funding from Jordan's Principle. In February, Indigenous Services Canada announced significant changes to the program, which aims to ensure First Nations children can access government-funded services without being caught in jurisdictional disputes. And since that announcement, the Council of Yukon First Nations has been left in limbo. Shadelle Chambers is the executive director of the Council. We reached her in Whitehorse.

NK: Shadelle, I'm wondering what it's been like to speak with the families that you work with, that you serve, and have to tell them that these programs are not available to them?

SHADELLE CHAMBERS: Yeah, it's been really disappointing and frustrating to have to communicate to our families that we work with that services have been cut, and we don't know when they will be able to be re-implemented, or even if they will able to be restarted. So, it's been quite, as I mentioned, frustrating. And just hearing the disappointment from families that have really depended on these supports and services.

NK: And we're talking about vital things, food and shelter. So, what are they saying to express that disappointment?

SC: Many of the families that we are supporting are living in poverty, and the cost of living in the North is quite high, as many of the listeners would know. And so, not being able to help ensure that getting access to groceries, food, and clothing, and housing has been scary for them. And so, we've really held up our families and tried to reach out to existing supports and services in Whitehorse, reaching out to local food banks and other programs. But as you can imagine, there's been a lot of demand on those programs, and not everyone always feels comfortable reaching out for those essential services.

NK: The federal changes to Jordan's Principle were announced back in February, but when did you start to realize that it was going to impact you and your funding, that there would be this issue with funding?

SC: We started to note it in December, January of last year and this year in terms of getting direction and approval to start submitting our new fiscal year funding for April. Normally, we would get approval and word that they would be accepting those proposals early, but as I mentioned, we haven't been able to get confirmation, even today, that our New Year's funding and our group proposals would even be considered. And so, we knew something was up. And then, when the operational bulletin came out in February, we knew that something was going to be different this year. And so, we started to prepare as a team and an organization, and started to connect with our 400 families that we support and serve on a monthly basis.

NK: Can you help us wrap our heads around what the issue is here exactly? How did the funding used to work? And how is it supposed to work now?

SC: Through Jordan's Principle, organizations are able to submit individual or group applications. And so, group applications were previously for 50 children or more. And so, they were used to help assist with larger groups and making larger systemic changes, and so that Indigenous Services Canada and organizations wouldn't have to submit 400 individual requests for supports and services. and so, the Council of Yukon First Nations over the last number of years has had larger group proposals for our families that we work with that help alleviate those barriers to getting approvals. And so, this year, as I mentioned, we were told that they weren't going to submit applications right, be able to approve applications for the new fiscal year in advance. And so, it's been very detrimental to our families.

NK: And late last month, Indigenous Services Minister Patty Hajdu said funding for Jordan's Principle would continue for 2025/2026. You talked about the lack of answers on some issues. Are you getting any clarity?

SC: Yeah, the announcement came late. Normally, we would have received that announcement probably two or three months in advance. So, to wait to two weeks before the new fiscal year, we were glad to hear that there was a funding commitment made, but we've got to remember that Jordan's Principle is a legal principle. It's not dependent on a government or a funding announcement. And so, we really got to hold up the intention of Jordan's Principle and remember Jordan River Anderson. And the true intention of Jordan's Principle is to ensure that First Nations children get the supports and services that they need.

NK: Prior to announcing these changes, Indigenous Services Canada, as you know, was dealing with a significant backlog of funding applications. And the government has said it had some concerns that the program, that some requests were being mislabeled as urgent. And that in some cases, the program was being misused. What do you say to, to those assertions?

SC: Well, I think that this delay in funding commitments, and the federal government not upholding Jordan's Principle has increased that backlog. I believe there was at one time approximately 140,000 unresponded to requests. I can only imagine that this has increased. And so, I think it's unfortunate that there has been some misuse of requests and funding. However, we've got to remember that Indigenous Services Canada approves every one of those applications. And so, the onus is really on how do we ensure that there's a process in place for applications and requests to be approved that really meet the intention of Jordan's Principle.

NK: So, how do you offer comfort or advice as you're waiting for more clarity for those hundreds of families that you serve who are caught in the middle of this now?

SC: Yeah, it's really about ensuring we know about the existing resources and support and services in our region here in the Yukon. And so, really working with other First Nations organizations, NGOs, to really help address some of those gaps in services, particularly around housing and food. Food insecurity is a big piece. So, we've been boots to the ground for the last number of months, connecting with our partners and other organizations to ensure our families get the supports and services they need.

NK: Shadelle, l appreciate your time. Thanks for this.

SC: [speaking an Indigenous language] Thank you.

CH: Shadelle Chambers is the executive director of the Council of Yukon First Nations. We reached her in Whitehorse. We contacted Indigenous Services Canada. In a statement, a spokesperson told us they are working to reduce the backlog while also reviewing new requests, including by implementing a team to review urgent requests. They write, quote, [coughs] pardon me, “Each new request will be considered on a case-by-case basis. Previously approved requests do not guarantee approvals of new funding of the same nature.” Unquote.

[folk]

FOA: CDN Soccer Coach

CH: It's been nearly three months since Canada Soccer announced that the women's team had a new head coach: former England player and San Diego Wave head coach Casey Stoney. Now, Ms. Stoney is making her debut in the role on Canadian soil -- as the team plays two friendlies against Argentina in British Columbia. We spoke to Ms. Stoney in January, after her appointment. Nil asked why she wanted to take on a leading role at an organization that has experienced some controversy -- including the drone spying scandal at the Olympics. She said one of the reasons was Canada Soccer CEO Kevin Blue.

SOUNDCLIP

CASEY STONEY: To be honest, the big part was Kevin. Having spoke to, I know players that have played in, in the team for a while. And they, they were very adamant that he'd made such a big impact in the short time he'd been in role in terms of changing, A, like, equity and parity for the players, which is really, really important. And the culture and the standards that he wants to set. He wasn't happy with the standards that were set previously. I understand this driven coach. I am about integrity. My values are really important to me. And he was very, very aware of that. And I felt like we were aligned on a lot of things. So, you know, I know that, I thought the players unfairly got a little bit of the character question during the Olympics. That should never have happened because I thought what the players did during that difficult time was really admirable. And it shows the resilience of the togetherness of the group. So, for me, to be able to come in and lead that group is a privilege.

NK: In your conversations with the players, what did they tell you about the impact that all of that negative attention, the headlines internationally, had on them?

CS: I think it obviously had a massive impact on them as people. I think when your character and your integrity is being questioned, and you haven't had any control over the situation, that can be very difficult. But they very much just said they want to move forward. They want somebody who's going to lead with integrity. They want someone who's going to support them as players. They want someone who's going to lead the program and take them to the next level. And, you know, I feel like when I was involved in the process, I told them I'm a player's coach. I'm here for them. I'm here to support them. I'm here to guide them. I'm here to challenge them. I'm here to develop them. And I'm here to try and help the program be the best it possibly can be. I'm very much about winning, but I'm about winning the right way. Then, you can look back and be really, really proud of your accomplishments, knowing that you did things with integrity. You did things in a fair way. And I don't know any other way than that. And that's the way I'm going to lead this team.

NK: What do you think will, it will take as coach for, you know, for your team to go from being ranked sixth in the world to number one, you know, by 2027, and the World Cup?

CS: It takes a lot. It's going to take a hell of a lot of hard work, a lot of preparation. And in tournament football, you need luck as well. You need your best players fit and available. You need to, you need a good draw. You know, you need to be prepared as possible. We need to go in having the right amount of experience in terms of the caps on the, on the roster, making sure that we've got the right young players prepared and ready to go. And, you know, we're going to, we're going to do everything we can to try.

CH: From Our Archives, the head coach of the Canadian women’s soccer team, Casey Stoney, talking to Nil back in January.

[jaunty instrumental]

Quebec Disinformation Bill

CH: In the National Assembly of Quebec yesterday, the provincial government tabled a bill to combat foreign interference, and disinformation in provincial elections. If passed, Bill 98 would make it an offence to use things like AI-generated deepfakes that impersonate political candidates to mislead the public, or to spread false information to influence votes. People who break the law could be fined $1,000 to $10,000. Companies could be fined more. And the amounts would rise for repeat offenders. Farnell Morisset is a legal expert who makes social media content about politics and law. He talked to the CBC about why he thinks this bill is coming now.

SOUNDCLIP

FARNELL MORISSET: It is a reasonable, moderate, incremental bill that's attacking problems we see elsewhere in the world. Most likely, the criticism might be that it doesn't go far enough, I think.

SEAN HENRY: Why do you think the CAQ is doing this now?

FM: I would imagine that the CAQ is looking over what's happening elsewhere in the world, particularly in the United States, but also what's starting to happen in Canadian elections, and thinking it's probably a good time to address some of these issues. We're still fairly far away from an election, so they probably can't be accused of trying to change the rules of a game too quickly just before an election to their favour. The timing is just generally good. And it's also, you know, people, obviously elections are on people's minds right now.

SH: Yeah, elections are on people's minds. Of course, we have a federal election later this month, municipal elections later this year, and the provincial election is next year, but will probably come around faster than we know it. In terms of this bill and what's presented in this bill, how easy is it to prove that someone knowingly disseminated false information?

FM: That's a very high bar. And I think that's intentional. You know, to, to know, to prove that someone knowingly disseminated false information, you first have to prove the information is false. And then, you have to prove that the person who shared it knew it was false at the moment they shared it. Proving someone's knowledge is a hard thing. So, this is only really going to affect the most obvious, egregious cases, I would think. And I would say that's probably intentional in the bill. They're trying to stay away from any possibility of people being worried that this is a censorship bill of some kind. Having, having such a difficult legal hurdle to cross is, is going to make the bill more limited in scope.

CH: That was Farnell Morisset. He's a legal expert who makes social media content about politics and law. He was talking to Sean Henry, host of Daybreak in Montreal today.

[light rock]

Research Investment

Guest: Peter Zandstra

CH: Yale historians and philosophy professors leaving New Haven, Connecticut for the relative safe haven of the University of Toronto. Prospective American graduate students deciding to study abroad. The B.C. government recruiting U.S.-trained doctors disillusioned by changes to the American healthcare system and cuts to research spending. The signs of a brain drain -- draining north from the U.S. to Canada -- are all there. But Peter Zandstra says we're not doing everything we could to heed those signs. He's the Director of the University of British Columbia's School of Biomedical Engineering -- and the author of a column in the Globe and Mail this week, arguing that Canada should be capitalizing on the current moment. We reached him in Vancouver.

NK: Peter, what kinds of conversations have you been having with your colleagues in the U.S. just in the last few weeks?

PETER ZANDSTRA: Yeah, it's been actually quite interesting. Not only me, but really colleagues across the country have been contacted by, um, colleagues really thinking about the opportunities that might be in Canada. And the reasons are very, part of it is about not, you know, I've talked to colleagues who are no longer taking salary themselves because they want to keep their labs running and keep their staff and their researchers employed. I've talked to other researchers who say that the environment around specific topics to research, or DEI -- or diversity and inclusion -- have created environments which make them worried about research, and their ability to research diverse subjects or really recruit the number of people, the types of people that they may want in their labs. So, for us in Canada, it really represents an opportunity, and I think, thinking about ways that we can keep that science going and help benefit Canada, both in terms of recruiting talent, but also in terms supporting our research here and our science.

NK: What specifically do you think, Peter, Canada and universities here need to do to capitalize on this moment?

PZ: Yeah, I think there's a number of things. One of the things is clearly if we want to invite and grow our research impact, we're going to need strategic investments in discovery research. And research investments like infrastructure really bring significant returns. And I understand asking for money at this time, it's a tough ask. But there's really a lot of other sort of policy and alignment opportunities, whether that's better ways of buying Canadian and procurement of biomedical technologies within Canada. Whether that testing and new discoveries in Canada through clinical trials. And having policies to attract companies here and get companies to invest here. Those are all things, I think, that may not cost a lot, but would have a really big impact.

NK: In your column that you wrote in the Globe and Mail, you do talk about success stories. And it includes Geoffrey Hinton, the Nobel Laureate, As It Happens guest more than once. He came from the U.K.

PZ: Oh, wonderful.

NK: And he was drawn here because of investment in artificial intelligence research programs here. You talk about that sometimes it is difficult, especially at a time like this when we're talking about cost of living issues and affordability if we're talking about public spending or taxpayer dollars to fund these. How do you think politicians in this climate persuade people that, in your view, research funding is a good use of public money?

PZ: Yeah, I think it goes back to that, you know, Geoffrey Hinton's a great example, that you can see the impact that investment in AI has had in Canadian leadership, creating new companies, new jobs. We're talking about, you know, technologies such as diagnostics, personalized therapies for cancer, AI systems for Alzheimer's, things that Canadians really benefit from. But we do that in a way that tries to keep those technologies here in Canada as long as possible.

NK: I'm also thinking, Peter, of, you know, all the conversations we've had about the difficulties at universities, funding overall, researchers here who are struggling to get their projects funded properly. So, even if they're open to more people coming in, I wonder if there's worry there among your colleagues here?

PZ: Yeah, for sure. And I think this is why, you know, this idea of really thinking about how we take advantage of this opportunity. Not only do we want to grow our overall research endeavor, but we want to make sure that the opportunities we have within Canada are developed. And there's some, you know, some things that have happened over the last little while that have really affected the funding at universities. This includes changes in our international student policy, which have reduced stability at some universities with respect to budgets. All of this affects our ability to do science. So, certainly we want to grow and support the researchers, and our investigators, and the academic endeavors and the new startups we have. But bringing this new talent in will allow us to further grow that ability. And we're going to need to think about how we resource that as well.

NK: One of the conversations we've had recently on the show on this apparent brain drain was with Steven Woolf. He's a professor at Virginia Commonwealth University, and one of the people who penned and signed onto an open letter condemning what they call a, quote, wholesale assault on U.S. science by the Trump administration. We'll play for you and our listeners a little bit of what he told me.

SOUNDCLIP

STEVEN WOOLF: I think it's important for listeners to understand that there's two pieces to this. One is that these massive cuts are turning off the spigot for research. But the second part is the censorship. This is where the government is imposing ideological and political agendas to interfere with what research questions scientists can investigate, what methods they can use for doing their studies, and how they, literally the words they can use in reporting the results. So, the very important principle of scientific independence that researchers across the world value is being threatened in this case.

NK: What, Peter, do you think Canada needs to do to safeguard its own scientific independence right now?

PZ: Yeah, I mean, this is part of what really motivated me around this opportunity. The U.S. has been a significant leader in science discovery and innovation, but there's starting to be gaps in this. And we have an opportunity to kind of step in and start to take leadership in these areas. And it's, surprisingly, I haven't heard a lot of discussion around science funding, innovation funding through the election. And it's possible I've missed this. And what I think we need to do is start this discussion, hear a little bit more from our leaders about what their plans are for science innovation and engineering innovation, and help that to be part of the discussion as we make a decision.

NK: Peter, I appreciate your time. Thanks for this.

PZ: A pleasure. Thank you for your interest.

CH: Peter Zandstra is the Director of the University of British Columbia's School of Biomedical Engineering and a fellow at the Canadian Institute for Advanced Research. We reached him in Vancouver.

[instrumental]

Clippy

CH: It's the mid-'90s. You've got Jagged Little Pill on repeat, and you're drinking a Clearly Canadian as you fire up your giant computer. "Dear Tim Allen, star of the popular mid-'90s sitcom Home Improvement", you type. And suddenly, startlingly, in the corner of your monitor, there it is: Clippy, the animated paper clip with eyes and eyebrows. "Looks like you're writing a letter," his voice bubble says. "Would you like help?" Now, Clippy was a good idea. He was cute, he was just trying to help us use Microsoft Office. But Clippy was clingy. He never seemed to know when enough was enough -- and when didn't want him around. Today marks the 50th anniversary of the founding of Microsoft, and Kevan Atteberry is feeling nostalgic. Because he created Clippy.

SOUNDCLIP

KEVAN ATTEBERRY: As soon as the product went out, people were making fun of Clippy from the very start. I mean, they held him in such disdain, they fake assassinated him. [chuckling] I mean, they just did, it was just, he was the punching bag for everybody. Most people just hated it because it was an unneeded horn or whistle for a product that they were used to. And that's not actually who it was for. It was for people that were just learning how to do things. But all the established users just hated it. And I was, you know, I was kind of hurt. I really liked him. I thought he was a great character, a very simple character that was very emotive and whatnot. So, when I told people and they realized that I, or when I told people that I created him, they, everybody was very excited. You know, they'd say, that effing paperclip, I hate it, I hate. And I go, I created it. And they go, oh my God, that's so cool. [chuckling] And he is likable. He was probably an annoyance. I was on a Macintosh, so I never experienced the annoying or irritation that Clippy caused, but, you know, so it was hard for me to appreciate their disdain.

CH: Mac user Kevan Atteberry is the creator of Clippy, the Microsoft paper clip icon. You can hear more of his story tomorrow on Day 6, tomorrow morning at 10 am, 10:30 in Newfoundland.

[hip-hop]

Michael Hurley Obit

CH: Michael Hurley was all about the music -- which is why so many musicians were all about Michael Hurley. Artists from Lucinda Williams to Yo La Tengo credit the American folk legend as an inspiration; his influence stretched from Americana to punk. But above all, he's seen as the godfather of "freak folk" -- a mix of traditional folk and psychedelic experimentation. Mr. Hurley has died at the age of 83. A statement from his family describes him as "the purveyor of an eccentric genius and compassionate wit …", adding, "There is no other." Now, if you've never heard of Michael Hurley, that's no surprise. He spent his long career on the outskirts of the mainstream music industry -- starting in the Greenwich Village folk scene of the 1960s and stretching through to today. He put out more than 30 albums, all while working odd jobs including: groundskeeper, machine operator, apple picker, hot pretzel vendor, and janitor. He first picked up a guitar as a child and he began to carry it with him wherever he went. He told an interviewer he played it night and day -- and that it never had a case because it never got put away. He said songs came to him unbidden -- melodies appearing in his mind, along with steam-of-consciousness style lyrics. Or sometimes, they'd come to him in a dream. The result is a catalogue full of what's been called his "wit and wild imagination ... a beacon for singers and songwriters seeking to express the joys and fantastical idiosyncrasies of the world.”

The AIH Transcript For April 4, 2025

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