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The AIH transcript for April 25, 2025

For more episodes of this podcast, please click this link.

NIL KÖKSAL: Hello, I'm Nil Köksal.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[theme]

CH: Tonight:

NK: The life of the parties. As we head into the last weekend before Monday’s federal election, the CBC's poll analyst Eric Grenier tells us what his crystal ball -- well, numbers -- suggest, ahead of the big day.

CH: Worried sick. As Ontario surpasses 1,000 cases of measles, a paediatrician describes the shock of seeing the disease spread -- and urges parents to make sure their kids are vaccinated.

NK: Speaking their language. A Quebec judge hands two anglophone universities a partial victory in their battle with the provincial government over out-of-province tuition fees.

CH: Up from the ashes. Nearly four years after the Lytton wildfire wiped out most of her village -- including her house -- Mayor Denise O'Connor finally has a new place to call home.

NK: Wit's end. White House correspondents are heading to their annual dinner, which is traditionally full of jokes -- but our guest says this year, under the Trump administration, there doesn't seem to be an appetite for humour.

CH: And...prehistory in the remaking. Just when we were all getting really impatient about a new kind of leather, a British project aims to reproduce an old kind of leather -- from the lab-recreated skin of the T. Rex.

CH: As It Happens, the Friday edition. Radio that looks forward to wearing a dinosaur jacket -- leather permitting.

[theme]

Part 1: Polling Wrap, White House Correspondents’ Dinner, Mayor Lytton House

Polling Wrap

Guest: Eric Grenier

CH: They're in the home stretch. We're all in the home stretch. After more than a month on the campaign trail, the front-runners in Canada's federal election were in Saskatchewan and Ontario today -- making their final arguments.

SOUNDCLIP

PIERRE POILIEVRE: Change, change, change. This election comes down to one word, and that is change. Changement, changement, et changement. C'est le seul mot. C'et l'élection de 2025. Il faut que ça change. Change, change,

MARK CARNEY: Canadians will choose who stands up for them as their prime minister. And I'm asking for your vote, for positive reasons, regardless of which party you voted for in the past. I'm also asking for you vote to stand up to Donald Trump. To build a united Canada. To build Canada Strong.

CH: Conservative Party Leader Pierre Poilievre and Liberal Party Leader Mark Carney, campaigning in Saskatoon and Sault Ste. Marie, earlier today. On Monday, Canadians will vote -- and the polls continue to indicate that one of those two men will be the next prime minister. Eric Grenier runs the poll aggregator TheWrit-dot-ca, as well as the CBC's poll tracker. We reached him in Ottawa.

NK: Eric, when we last spoke, it was about nearly five weeks ago now, you said this was Mark Carney's campaign to lose. How do things sit now?

ERIC GRENIER: Well, it seems like it wasn't, in the end, a campaign that he is on track to lose. We're looking at where the polls are as we head into this final weekend. We're going to get a rush of numbers in the next couple days, but where things stood just at the end of this last week, the Liberals are leading by three or four points in the polls nationwide. They have significant leads in, really, the important battlegrounds in the province. And it doesn't seem like the campaign has really shifted the numbers all that much. While there has been some movement, more or less, we're not that far off from where we were on Day One.

NK: The Conservatives have made some inroads. So, I mean, would you say that this campaign, as quickly as some may say it has gone by, that it was inconsequential?

EG: It's always a thing when we don't see a lot of movement in the polls that it seems like the campaign didn't matter. But when numbers don't move, when opinions don't move, it means that the campaign served to solidify those views. So, I think that the camping did have a real purpose because, obviously, it was a bit of a test case for Mark Carney. But it does seem like what the Liberals had set out to do over the course of this campaign, which was to present Mark Carney as a serious candidate and to try to cruise all the way to Election Day. The strategy, at least to date, seems to have worked pretty well.

NK: Why do you think none of the parties other than the Conservatives have been able to make a significant dent in the Liberal lead, at least in terms of what the polling is showing right now?

EG: I think that what's been a struggle for the other parties, particularly the New Democrats, is that the election has polarized between two options. So, the Liberals and the Conservatives, they're both polling very high. The Conservative support they have in the polls right now is way above what happened in the last three elections. And it's around the same support that was good enough for Stephen Harper to win a few elections when he was prime minister. But because we saw that the NDP was unable to really get into this conversation on tariffs and dealing with Donald Trump, that a lot of that vote for the New Democrats went over to the Liberals. And we saw for parties like the Bloc Québécois also struggled to really get into the midst of this campaign. The debate might have helped the bloc a little bit, might have saved them, and will see how that's going to play out. But the Liberals were just able to keep more of the vote that they picked up after Justin Trudeau's resignation, then the Conservatives were able to make up some of the losses that they had once the polls shifted.

NK: And, Eric, what does the polling suggest in terms of the criticism we heard, you heard it, certainly, of the Conservative Party's approach? And when I say criticism, it was coming from party insiders. At the top of that list, Kory Teneycke, who worked for Stephen Harper and Doug Ford. And he has repeatedly called Pierre Poilievre's campaign, quote, too Trumpy. Does the polling and what you've seen throughout this campaign suggest that there is something to what he's saying there?

EG: I think so. Because we've seen that Pierre Poilievre's own personal numbers have not gotten better during this campaign. His negatives were actually quite a bit higher, really, over the last little while, the last couple of months. So, it does seem like the comparisons to the Trump administration might have hurt the Conservatives. And I think that it is a problem for the Conservatives in this campaign is that it was well-designed to win a traditional campaign, but it wasn't well-designed to have to get the party above 40 per cent to get them into a place where they could take on the Liberals if the NDP vote and a lot of the Bloc vote was no longer going to those parties. We'll see if it's going to play out on Election Day if their voters go out to vote in bigger numbers than expected, but it did limit what their ceiling was. And we haven't really seen throughout this campaign, aside from a few, very few exceptions, that the Conservatives were ever over 40 per cent in the polls.

NK: What were those moments of exception? What issues or moments appeared to give Pierre Poilievre a boost in those moments?

EG: At the beginning of the campaign where there was a lot of focus on Donald Trump, that's when the tariffs came in, that's when the tariffs were paused. And whenever there was focus on Donald Trump, the Liberals were doing well in the polls. We've seen poll after poll after poll suggesting that Mark Carney is trusted over Pierre Poilievre to deal with Donald Trump by a huge margin. But over the last two or three weeks of the campaign, Donald Trump started to recede. And we saw that is when the Conservatives seem to be able to get some traction, where the Liberals seem to be a little bit directionless. But now, we're in these last days of the campaign, and Donald Trump is back into the headlines. That is not where the Conservatives wanted to end this campaign.

NK: Apart from the Bloc Québécois, as you know, the major parties all released their platforms very late in this campaign. More than 7 million Canadians had already voted in early voting by the time the Conservative Party platform came out just this week. So, have the actual policy proposals, do you think have had, have they had any bearing on these polls? Or is this an election just based on the energy people are getting from leaders, or how they feel about leaders in particular?

EG: I think, in my view, all elections really do come down to leaders and whether people trust them, how they feel about them, what kind of impression they have of them. But I think in the context of this election, it was primarily about leadership. It was about trying to imagine who would be the prime minister over the next four years during the Trump administration. And so, while the platforms came out very late, I don't think that a lot of people were waiting to see the policy details of this tax cut or this spending promise. And, in the end, we saw that both parties really kind of lost a day because they had to explain away some numbers that didn't quite make sense or some assumptions when it came to their projections. But I don't think that this has been an election about a specific issue that could be presented on a policy platform. It was just very much about Donald Trump and how Canada was going to deal with that crisis.

NK: So, it was a calculation, a strategy move by most of the parties to wait this long?

EG: I think so, and I think that the result of those platform releases, both of them really just kind of fell flat, I think shows that they weren't all that enthusiastic about having to put them together.

NK: You know, of course, that the polls can get it wrong. They have in the past. How are you feeling this time around?

EG: I could answer that in two different ways. One is that the polls put the Liberals in a better position than they were in 2021. Their lead over the Conservatives is wider. And I was reasonably confident in 2021 that despite the very, very tight race in the polls that the Liberals were going to win more seats. The Liberals are in a better position now, so should be more reasonably confident that they'll win more seats than they did last time. But it's always hard to get rid of that nagging feeling that like in 2016, the U.S. election, like in some other cases, that the polls might be missing something. And the problem is that we only know if they've missed something after the votes are in. So, that's how we're gonna have to wait and see.

NK: We will wait and see. Eric, always a pleasure. Thank you for this.

EG: Thanks for having me.

CH: Eric Grenier runs the poll aggregator TheWrit-dot-ca as well as the CBC's poll tracker. He's in Ottawa.

[ambient]

White House Correspondents’ Dinner

Guest: Judy Kurtz

CH: In Washington, they call it "Nerd Prom". The White House Correspondents' Dinner is traditionally a chance for the D.C. press corps to get loose with the politicians they cover -- the U.S. president included -- rub shoulders with VIP's, and laugh it up with a famous comedian who MC's the night. In recent years, Trevor Noah, Colin Jost, and Michelle Wolf have all hosted. Tomorrow night's festivities, though, will be a little different. Comedian Amber Ruffin was disinvited from performing at the event by the Correspondents' Association, following complaints from White House staffers about her material. Also, President Trump announced that he will not be attending the event -- which falls on the same day as the funeral of Pope Francis. And the event is taking place amid tension between reporters and the administration -- which is asserting an unusual amount of control over the outlets it allows to cover White House briefings. Judy Kurtz is a political reporter for The Hill. We reached her in Washington, D.C.

NK: Judy, are you going to be at the dinner tomorrow night?

JUDY KURTZ: I will be at the dinner, this is my 14 year with The Hill, my 14th year at the dinner, [chuckle] so this is old habit for me. [NK chuckles] It's a really tough gig, I have to say, going to this dinner every year, [NK laughs] going to parties.

NK: Really rough, I know. And I know, you know, colleagues, CBC colleagues, who've gone in the past. People get really excited about it. What are you bracing for this time?

JK: You're right, it is considered kind of the "it", you know, event of the social season here in Washington, D.C.'s Hollywood moment. [NK chuckles] We usually have a lot of Hollywood stars swoop in and attend the event. And, typically, the president talks, you know, gives these roast-like remarks. We're not seeing any of that this year. President Trump is continuing to buck tradition. He didn't attend the White House Correspondents' Dinner throughout his first term. No surprise there given the tensions that we're seeing between the media, the press, and the trump White House, especially with access to the oval office by the Associated Press. And we're also not seeing a lot of the Hollywood element that we've had in years before. In past years, I've covered George Clooney, Angelina Jolie, Kim Kardashian -- the flood of star power that we saw, certainly during the Obama years and somewhat during the Biden years.

NK: You know, there have been times where the event has shifted to meet a moment or the tone of what is unfolding. But what do you make of all of those stars you listed not coming this year? What does that signal to you?

JK: Yeah, that's certainly right. During Trump's first term in office, a lot of Hollywood sort of boycotted the dinner, even though it's a dinner that raises money for the work of the White House Correspondents’ Association, made up of journalists and some journalism scholarships. Hollywood turned its back to the dinner in protest. And once again, Hollywood is, you know, for the most part, not the biggest fan of Trump. And they are, you know, largely staying out of Washington. You know, rubbing elbows with lawmakers, with different cabinet members, with journalists here in Washington is probably not the look they're going for right now.

NK: As our listeners heard, comedian Amber Ruffin was initially announced as the entertainer, the MC, the person who would deliver a lot of that roast, and then was dropped. The White House Correspondents' Association President Eugene Daniels issued a statement about the decision saying in part, quote, at this consequential moment for journalism, I want to ensure the focus is not on the politics of division, unquote. But we should remind our listeners that, initially, he called her, quote, the ideal fit for this political climate, unquote. What did other journalists tell you about how they feel about that decision, that reversal?

JK: There was some pushback when Amber Ruffin was announced, and I think reversing course was a way of trying to match the political moment by the White House Correspondents’ Association. And Ruffin wasn't necessarily the right fit for that.

NK: Who was pushing back? Who was pushing against Ruffin as a guest or as a host?

JK: I think some members of the White House Correspondents’ Association. And the White House had a problem with Ruffin because there were resurfaced remarks that she made against President Trump. But the White House Corresponsive Association maintains that that wasn't the reason that they decided to cancel the comedy and performance at this dinner. They said the White house was not behind that decision, that that was something that they came to on their own.

NK: Do you believe that?

JK: I'd take them at their word that they found that it was not matching the political moment, as they said. And I, and from the members of the Correspondents' Association who I've talked to, you they tend to agree that right now, if the media is saying that this is a critical time for American democracy and they're battling with the White House for access to spaces like the Oval Office, the pool rotation, the press briefings, which are now controlled by the White House versus the Correspondents’ Association, it perhaps wasn't the best time to be yucking it up and sipping martinis at the Correspondents' Dinner at a time like this.

NK: Yeah, I think there'll be some who could see that as capitulation potentially to this particular administration and others who say this could be a moment to defend democracy and journalism. Do you think it's going to be that, in the absence of what it normally is, that lighthearted, fun, roast atmosphere?

JK: I think where it's going to be a more sober event for sure. And that they've said as much that the focus is going to be on the First Amendment. They're not going to have those kind of lighter moments. They don't expect to have as many of those lighter moments. You know, the contrast from years ago when that, you know, this dinner, you have to know, was almost bananas. It was out of control [chuckling] with the Hollywood element. You know, the focus started becoming who could land George Cloney at their table as their guest and not so much on the work of the White House Correspondents' Association. But there is also, that being said, there is a value to having that Hollywood element drawing buzz and attention to the very serious work that journalists here in D.C. are doing covering the White House.

NK: You wrote in your piece that one of the people you interviewed, I thought it was a very funny way to end, very much underlining the fact that she was planning to wear flats, flats to this event, which women will understand, what are you going to wear, heels or flats?

JK: [chuckling] I always go with a low heel, not that I'm some fashionista, I can't get quite to the flat status yet.

NK: We'll look out for your coverage, Judy. I appreciate this, thank you.

JK: Thank you so much, Nil. I appreciate it.

NK: Take care.

CH: Judy Kurtz is a reporter with The Hill. We reached her in Washington, D.C.

[industrial]

Mayor Lytton House

Guest: Denise O'Connor

CH: Over the years, we've heard from Denise O'Connor many times. She lives in Lytton, British Columbia. And the 2021 fire destroyed most of her town -- including her home.

SOUNDCLIP

DENISE O'CONNOR: Well, the fire, you know, came so quickly into town, and it totally destroyed, totally destroyed my home. There's nothing left -- just a burned-out foundation with ash and pieces of metal. You know, I look there and I see my washing machine and dryer and a few things like that, you, know, but there's just nothing left.

CH: Denise O'Connor, on this program in 2022. Now, nearly four years after the wildfire, she will soon be spending her first night in her new place. Ms. O'Connor is now the mayor of Lytton -- and that is where we reached her.

NK: Mayor O'Connor, what does your home look like at this moment compared to what we just heard you describe?

DENISE O'CONNOR: Well, it's almost rebuilt. I'm, well, it is rebuilt. I'm actually moving in right now. So, it's a brand new home on the same lot.

NK: Does it feel like home?

DO: No, it doesn't. It feels good because it's brand new and it's exciting. I haven't slept here yet, so I'm a little bit apprehensive, to be honest, but excited at the same time. I say no because, you know, it's been four years since I've really had a place that I've called home. And so, it's going to take some getting used to.

NK: What was it like to hear that clip we played from you back in 2022?

DO: You know, as I said, four years is a long time, and I'd almost, I'd almost forgotten what that was like. You know, that was two years, or a year-and-a-bit after the fire. And, you know, I think back now and, you know, a year after the fire and nothing had been cleaned up. Like, it just, still, it just blows my mind to think that.

NK: What does the rest of Lytton look and feel like now? How are your neighbours doing?

DO: Yeah, well, the entire village has been cleaned and cleared and backfilled, and I've got a number of neighbours that have moved in, in fact, nine houses now are occupied. They've been occupied for a while, and there's another nine that are being built, mine included. And everybody is really happy. The feeling is a lot more positive than it was even a year ago. Yeah, it's just great to be able to look down the street and see buildings again.

NK: And that sense of community. You told us in 2022 how much you missed that connection.

DO: Absolutely. You know, that was huge. And now, you know, I can wave at the people on the porch kitty corner to me. I did that last night and it just felt so good.

NK: At the same time, I know you said you almost forgot, and I think that can be a good thing and a coping mechanism, but the realities being what they are, fire season approaching, how does that sit with you? How do you deal with that as mayor, but also as someone who went through what you went through already?

DO: Yeah, you know, there's still many people here that have PTSD and that the memories are still so real for them. I have to say I'm probably one who's not affecting quite that same way, but there are many, and we're all hyper-aware of the smell of smoke and the potential for fire, absolutely. We live in this semi-arid, dry climate. It's 24 degrees here today, beautiful weather, but it's hot.

NK: When you look around your new home now, what are you most excited about?

DO: Oh gosh. [chuckling] I don't know yet 'till I get in. You know, I never dreamed it. I never, ever dreamed or planned to ever live in a brand new place. Everything is shiny new. The smell is new when I walk into the building. I don't want to say that I'm fortunate, but, you know, something good has come

out of this, I guess. If there's going to be anything positive, it's a new home.

NK: Becoming mayor, at what point did that idea come to you after everything you've been through? Why did you wanna take that on?

DO: Well, you know, back in I guess it would have been summer of 2022, when we knew the election was coming up and that the council at the time was not going to be running again, and I was one of many, I would say, quite vocal residents. We didn't see anything moving or happening. Communication was abysmal, so I had no intention in my life of ever, ever becoming mayor or getting into local politics. But because I was vocal, because I was loud and probably angry at the time, the people around the area convinced me. So I thought, why not? I'm here living in Lytton. I may as well put my energy into hopefully something I could make a difference doing rather than just complaining.

NK: The fires changed your life in so many ways.

DO: It really did, it really did. I look at the past, in 2018 I retired from education and I had lots of plans of travel and doing all sorts of other things. After that came COVID, and then came the fire. So, absolutely, if nothing else is learned, it's you can't count on anything. Life is gonna take you where it takes you. And just be prepared for anything.

NK: Mayor O'Connor, I'm so glad we could speak. And moving is never fun, but I think it's a bit different this time. So, congratulations, and thank you.

DO: Thank you. And I invite people to come and see the town if they're driving through, or just to come and take a look. Lots of things are happening here, so it's very positive.

NK: Thank you.

DO: Thank you.

CH: Denise O'Connor is the mayor of Lytton, B.C. And that's where we reached her.

[international music]

Dino Leather

CH: It's 1975. Everyone is wearing velour jumpsuits and roller skates. The hit movie Jaws is hurting sharks' feelings. And on televisions across North America, a very suave man is convincing us to buy a very fancy automobile.

SOUNDCLIP

RICARDO MONTALBAN: Ride, very cornerstone of a new automobile. Cordoba, the new small Chrysler. Here is the warmth of thickly-cushioned contour seats, available even in fine Corinthian leather. Even rich Corinthian Leather, even in soft Corinthian leather. Corinthian Leather? Of course, why not the best?

CH: Ricardo Montalban, purring about "fine Corinthian leather" in a voice like fine Corinthian leather. But here's the thing about fine Corinthian leather: it doesn't exist. It was just leather from Newark, New Jersey. An ad writer named Jim Nichols invented "Corinthian leather" thinking we would think it was more luxurious if it had a polysyllabic, foreign-sounding adjective in front of it. Here's why I bring this up. Right now, The Organoid Company -- normal name -- Lab-Grown Leather Limited, and the marketing company VML are collaborating on a big project in the U.K.: T. Rex leather. As in the rich leather of a giant, extinct, carnivorous dinosaur. Made in a lab. How will they do that? Well, according to the CEO of the Organoid Company, quote, by reconstructing and optimizing ancient protein sequences! Unquote. Now I feel dumb for asking. But I do have one other question: why will they do it? Well, novelty, obviously -- but also, they say their dinosaur leather will be better for the environment, and obviously better in terms of animal cruelty. But I do have one other question: will they do it? I don't know that, and they may not be totally sure either -- although they insist they'll have some kind of T. Rex leather fashion item available by the end of this year. Guess we'll see whether it's genuine fine antediluvian leather -- or just the latest fake iteration of fine Corinthian leather.

[pop beat]

Part 2: Ontario Measles Doc, Quebec Tuition Ruling

Ontario Measles Doc

Guest: Asmaa Hussain

CH: Ontario has reached a new milestone, and no one is celebrating. According to numbers released by Public Health Ontario, the province has now surpassed 1,000 cases of measles since the outbreak of the highly contagious respiratory virus began last fall. The agency says the increase in cases and geographic spread in recent weeks is a result of, quote, continued exposures and transmission among individuals who have not been immunized. Unquote. Southwestern Ontario has been at the centre of this outbreak. And that's where Dr. Asmaa Hussain works. She's the chief of paediatrics at St. Thomas Elgin General Hospital. We reached her in nearby London, Ontario.

NK: Dr. Hussain, from what you've seen in your hospital, are you surprised that Ontario has surpassed 1,000 measles cases now?

ASMAA HUSSAIN: I'm not actually surprised. I suspect the actual numbers are much, much, actually, higher than the 1,000. These are only cases that actually presented to a healthcare facility, got tested. And I know of many families and many children that have been staying home knowing that they have measles and not getting tested. So, the actual members are not actually presented in the 1,000.

NK: And in terms of what it's looked like on the ground, you know, in these last few months, those children who are admitted, what are you seeing in them? What are they facing?

AH: So, the children that are admitted have been mainly younger children, or children who have underlying medical conditions, making them more vulnerable to a severe disease. So far, I think we have been quite lucky in our area. Most of our admissions have been not with severe disease, so most of them have been with pneumonia which is an infection of the lung requiring oxygen and respiratory support. And others have been presenting with dehydration because of the high fever or decreased oral intake. So, this requires something between IV fluid and sometimes a feed to the stomach directly through a tube for younger babies that have been refusing to feed during the acute phase of illness.

NK: And how are their parents reacting?

AH: Obviously, they are distressed, they are worried. Just like any other parent, they are quite worried about their children. But again, they know what they are facing. A lot of them understand and know that it was spreading in the community before they came to the hospital. So, just like any other parent, I would say worried. I'm not sure, really, how much more.

NK: I hear what you're saying about not being surprised at the 1,000 case mark, but in terms of broadly where we're at, where we were in 1998 and have been since then in terms of measles to where we are today, does that surprise you?

AH: Oh, absolutely, absolutely. I have been practicing here for, between training and between actual practice, for the last 17 years. And I don't think that any of my colleagues have seen a single case of measles. So, this is a big shock to see this significant number within this short period of time is a big shock for a lot of us.

NK: Your hospital has had to make changes to its visitors policy because of this outbreak. Beyond, of course, doing that frontline work, treating patients with measles, dealing with their families as well and their concerns, how is this outbreak making your job, how is it changing it or making it more difficult?

AH: Oh, absolutely. I think it's more than our job. I think making it more difficult for our families, like for the families of children being admitted to the hospital for all different reasons. Unfortunately, we are having to separate parents. We are limited to one visitor, meaning that a child cannot be supported by both the parents, and neonate cannot be supported by both parents if the neonate gets admitted. So, you have a mom who just had a baby. And now, has to stay by herself in the hospital, without a partner, without any other support because we cannot get another person in. So, it caused a lot of undue stress for a lot of our families, unfortunately. I think we are lucky enough that we just recently, actually just yesterday, we changed our visiting policy to go back to two parents. Which has come as a huge relief for our nurses, for our staff, and definitely for our families.

NK: If you think back, Dr. Hussain, to the fall, when your first patient with measles came in, what came to mind? What stood out to you as you saw that patient?

AH: I was very much shocked. Like, I had to question myself whether what I'm seeing is actually what I am seeing. I mean, I saw the rash and it was a big surprise, so I had actually come out of the room and then go into recent public health memos to see if there has been any recent cases of measles in the area. And to my surprise, there were two cases that were reported a couple weeks before. And when we went back and dug further with the parents, we found out that they are actually from the same area. There was contact with these cases.

NK: Public Health Ontario in its report says that among infants, children, and adolescents, 95.3 per cent of these measles cases were in unimmunized individuals. So, going back to the conversations you're having with parents, are you getting the sense that they're not getting their children vaccinated because of hesitancy, or is it forgetfulness, or is there something else at play?

AH: I would say that there is a very major part of it is actually hesitancy and, unfortunately, misinformation that has spread in the community. We had that, actually, exaggerated significantly after COVID with a lot of mistrust, I would say, and that resulted in a lot these parents not immunizing. So, I'm not sure if I have met anybody who has just missed it, it was maybe intentional for most of our patients, un-immunized patients that were admitted to the hospital.

NK: If you could leave our listeners, if you wanted to leave our listeners with a message, tonight, Doctor, as someone who's seeing all of this on the front lines unfold, what would you like to say to listeners?

AH: I would say to listeners, this is serious, and especially for very young children, especially for children with underlying conditions like immune deficiency, that will put them at high risk. This outbreak is supposed to last us longer. If your child has not had measles so far and has not had the vaccine, please go ahead and get them vaccinated.

NK: Doctor, I appreciate this, thank you.

AH: You're welcome.

CH: Dr. Asmaa Hussain is a pediatrician in southwestern Ontario. We reached her in London.

[percussive]

Missing Earhart

[people cheer “Go Habs Go!”]

CH: Amelia Earhart is missing. That is not news. She, of course, disappeared over the Pacific Ocean in the 1930s, while attempting to become the first female pilot to circumnavigate the world. But in the early hours of Thursday morning, a statue of Ms. Earhart was stolen from its place of honour in Harbour Grace, Newfoundland and Labrador. That spot was chosen because it allowed the statue to look out at the airfield where her plane took off for that fateful trip in 1932. Harbour Grace Mayor Dan Coombs told the CBC how he learned the statue had been stolen.

SOUNDCLIP

DAN COOMBS: I got a call this morning at 7:15 from our maintenance supervisor and I said there's something wrong. And he said she's gone. So, I figured it's a family member or a friend must have passed away. I said who? He said Amelia, and it struck me. Yeah, she's gone. Somebody actually went and took the statue and it's no longer there. I drove up and I got a picture and the phone hasn't stopped since from calls across Canada. And it's unreal, it's sad, it's devastating. I'm still bewildered as to why. We found out that through the cameras at 12 there were two people dropped off last night at the site. At 2:43, a red SUV came back and it then went up Jamie's Way back to the highway. So, we're checking on cameras, were checking on anybody with a dash cam that went by. RCMP have the case. I'm really surprised people like Kim Windsor, who's a pilot with Air Canada, was president of the National East Association that we hosted a few years ago, reached out to me and they wanna help with a private investigator. Other people are after reaching out today and offering the same thing. We're gonna offer a reward from the town, but I gotta get back to the town to get that done this evening. People are calling me from the town, even as I'm parked just outside. It's not the same without her out there. She was like the guardian. From a tourist point of view, it was one of the biggest draws in the province with the plane, the Spirit of Harbor Grace, the Kyle in the background, the chalet, the one-room schoolhouse, and I think everybody came to Newfoundland and got a picture taken with her. So, she's really, really missed already in the town. And hopefully we can implore for whoever did it to do the right thing and put her back because she's priceless. Somebody said to me, how much did it cost? It's priceless. She was not just a pilot, she was an icon for all young girls, young women, and is no pun intended because she told and showed her story that for young women out there, the sky is the limit.

CH: That was Harbour Grace Mayor Dan Coombs talking to Krissy Holmes, host of CBC Newfoundland and Labrador's On the Go.

[lofi]

Quebec Tuition Ruling

Guest: Graham Carr

CH: In Quebec, McGill and Concordia universities are breathing a sigh of relief today. The schools won a significant victory against a provincial decision to increase tuition fees for out-of-province Canadian students studying at English-language universities -- and establish new French-language requirements for those students. Both schools filed a lawsuit against the ministry contesting the changes last year. And yesterday, a Quebec Superior Court Judge struck the changes down. He ruled that Quebec’s Higher Education Ministry didn’t have the data to back up its claims that out-of-province Canadian students weren't integrating into Quebec society. The province now has nine months to revisit the issue. And for now, the higher fees remain. Graham Carr is the president and vice-chancellor of Concordia University. We reached him in Montreal.

NK: Graham Carr, is this a win for Concordia, or do you think you're just going to be back at square one in nine months?

GRAHAM CAR: Well, I think we're obviously very glad and relieved that the judge ruled in the way that he did with respect to two issues that are very critical for us. So, we're clearly relieved that the judge found that both of those policies were problematic and found that they were problematic for the very reasons that we had argued from the beginning, which was that they founded on erroneous arguments and a lack of data that was clearly discriminatory towards us.

NK: But do you expect that the government is going to work with you and adhere to this ruling, or appeal where you're not aligned with the government with what they want and what you need?

GC: Well, that's a good question, which the government is in a better position [chuckling] to answer than we are. So, with respect to the 80 per cent Francization, the judge decided that that ends now. However, with regard to the change in the tuition that the rest of Canada's students will be obliged to pay, because that was already in the budget rule, the judge ruled that he could not overturn that at the moment, but that he would give nine months to the government to rectify that position. This is not going to materially affect our enrollment for the year to come, other than it will have calmed anxieties amongst particularly international students about language requirements that they might have been facing.

NK: And in terms of the fee increases for international students, what's your sense of why that was left as is?

GC: Right. Well, in that case, there's no actual increase to fees that international students are paying. Instead, what the government did was that they changed the funding formula so that if we were charging, for example, an international student $30,000 in 2023, We kept that full amount, but we got nothing in terms of a government grant. What the government decided, the change that they implemented, was that we could continue to charge $30,000 to a student coming from elsewhere, but the government would claw back $17,000, put it in a pool that would be redistributed among Quebec universities, particularly Francophone universities, and would compensate us to the tune of approximately $11,000 to $12,000. So, essentially, we're losing $5,000 to $6,000 of tuition revenue per international student under that framework. I think the reason why the judge did not opt to change that, and again, we are still reviewing the judgment, is essentially the government had reverted to a formula, a version of a formula that had existed a number of years before.

NK: On the issue of protecting the French language in Quebec, you know, that Premier François Legault has said that this is all about that, and they argue that the language is under threat and it needs to be preserved. What do you say in response to that?

GC: Well, I'll tell you [chuckling] what I told the premier when we met face-to-face many, many, many months ago around this issue. We completely understand and accept that the need to promote and protect the French language in Quebec, it's clear that French is the language under threat in the North American context. We were already working to support our students to achieve higher levels of French proficiency for the reasons that I previously explained, and we didn't need a government policy to encourage us to do that. It's also important to understand, you know, that a large number of students that we attract to Concordia, whether it's from the rest of Canada or from elsewhere in the world, are Franco-Fill, they're students who've gone to immersion programs, or in some cases, their language at home is French. And other students who've made the choice to come and study in Montreal are well aware that they're coming to study in a Francophone city that's one of the things that's attractive to them. And I think the difference in philosophy. The government felt that compulsion was the way to increase proficiency in French or exclusion. And we feel that support and taking positive actions to encourage people to learn a second language

NK: You mentioned that meeting and that conversation with the premier, you and other university leaders have been pushing back on this, there's the court case, of course, as well. You've said that this could be an opportunity to hit the reset button in terms of working with the government and that relationship.

GC: Yes, I really hope it is. I think, you know, universities in Quebec, but not just in Quebec, across Canada and elsewhere, are in troubled waters these days. What I hope comes out of this is that the government realizes that universities want to be partners. Universities need to be part of the solution for the future society and future economy of Quebec and Canada, particularly in the extraordinarily turbulent times that we're living in. At this moment in time, both Quebec and Canada need to go further, and we can only go further by sitting down and understanding why the university sector matters, how it contributes to Canadian society, and how we can work to support and sustain that and improve it going forward.

NK: Do you have another meeting in the books already?

GC: No, not yet, [chuckle] but we're waiting. This is a pivotal time for Quebec, for Canada, with everything that's going on geopolitically. I don't think anyone doubts that one part of a successful future is to be able to attract and develop top talent, regardless of where they're from in the world, and support them. Students would love to come to Quebec and love to come to Canada. And I think we need to do everything in our power to make sure that they feel welcome and supported, and help integrate them into our society after they graduate. That's the project that I'd like to work on with the government.

NK: Graham Carr, I appreciate your time. Thank you for this.

GC: Thank you, Nil.

CH: Graham Carr is the president and vice-chancellor of Concordia University. We reached him in Montreal. And an update on another story regarding English Quebec. The province’s minister for the French language and the province's language watch-dog are clarifying that they actually have no problem with the phrase " Go Habs Go". As we told you yesterday on the program, Montreal's transit agency removed the phrase from its buses, after a complaint was made to the Office québécois de la langue française. That led to a backlash from people who felt "Go Habs Go" should have stayed Habs stayed. Now, the president of the French-language watchdog says it never told the transit agency it couldn't use the expression -- which he says is, quote, "part of our Quebec identity" -- simply reminded the agency that it is an anglicism -- and of its obligations under the Charter of the French Language.

[hip-hop]

HBC: First Nations

CH: Today, the last remaining Hudson's Bay Company stores began their final liquidation. But the retailer is not just looking to sell off its own merchandise. As we've talked about before, The Bay also wants to auction off artworks and historical artifacts in its possession -- including the Royal Charter that launched the company over 300 years ago. And yesterday, a court gave the company the go-ahead. But among the 4,400-plus items are also believed to be a lot of artifacts of profound significance to First Nations people. Which is why the grand chief of the Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs, Kyra Wilson, has called for a halt to the auction, and the return of any objects in the company's possession that belong to First Nations in Canada. And today, Manitoba Premier Wab Kinew weighed in, saying the items should not be auctioned off at all, but handed over to the public. A judge has now granted the Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs a role in the process, saying the company must provide the full catalogue to the Assembly for review. Here's Grand Chief Kyra Wilson.

SOUNDCLIP

KYRA WILSON: When I think about the artifacts or the sacred items that are in storage at HBC, it needs to be returned to First Nations people. How did you acquire all of these art pieces, artifacts, all of the different items? How did acquire that? Because there's the history to that. Because we know as First Nations People that there were items that include sacred items that were stolen from our communities, that were stole from our families. And, you know, when we think about this whole list of thousands of items, you know, we don't know yet what has a connection to First Nations, but I would love to know, like, what is the history and how HBC has acquired every single item that is on that list. There should be no liquidation process until you have connected with First Nations and acknowledge the history that we have with HBC. And that goes for anything, in terms of liquidating any items, assets, anything like that. HBC needs to come to the table and they need to work with First Nations and ensure that they are righting those wrongs. I always feel confident that there are so many people here that acknowledge the history, colonial history, I guess, for First Nations. And so, you know, I... I honor and acknowledge those decisions that were made today, and thank you very much for respecting that and ensuring that we're a part of this process.

CH: That was Kyra Wilson, Grand Chief of the Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs, speaking yesterday.

The AIH Transcript For April 25, 2025

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