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The AIH transcript for February 27, 2025

For more episodes of this podcast, please click this link.

NIL KÖKSAL: Hello, I'm Nil Köksal.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[theme]

CH: Tonight:

NK: Un-developing story. Vancouver Mayor Ken Sim explains why he pushed for a freeze on new supportive housing units to serve people struggling in the city’s Downtown Eastside.

CH: Florida Men. The Tate brothers are proud misogynists, and accused rapists. But our guest says members of the Trump Administration appear to have pressured Romanian authorities to lift their travel restrictions so they could fly to Florida.

NK: Entries on her exit. She wrote about healthcare access from her chronic-care bed -- and her newspaper editor says the late Shawna Forester Smith made a lasting impression on her readers, and on him.

CH: Raining on some people's parade. One of the floats in a German carnival parade is causing a stir from spectators -- for calling out child sexual abuse in the Catholic Church.

NK: For the crater good. One especially nasty pothole in Cambridge, England was driving drivers into a rage. Until one man turned the town upside-down -- by putting an upside-down person in that pothole.

CH: And...love on the rocks. Not long after getting married, an Irish-American couple become the caretakers of a remote Irish island with no running water or electricity -- but plenty of seals and sea birds to keep them company.

CH: As It Happens, the Thursday edition. Radio that guesses first they sealed the deal -- and now they'll deal with seals.

Part 1: VANC. Supportive Housing Freeze, Shawna Forester Smith Obit, Irish Island Couple

VANC. Supportive Housing Freeze

Guest: Ken Sim

CH: Dozens of people lined up to tell Vancouver’s city council not to do it. Others stood outside City Hall protesting against it. But inside, the majority of councillors voted in favour of Mayor Ken Sim’s motion to freeze the construction of new supportive housing developments anyway. Mayor Sim said Vancouver had been building more than its fair share in the region for too long. But protesters argued that the pause will just increase homelessness on the Downtown Eastside. We reached Mayor Ken Sim in Vancouver.

NK: You've asked me to call you Ken, Mayor Sim, so, so, I'll do that. Last night, nearly 100 people registered to speak against this motion. Hundreds more protested outside City Hall. So, with all of that push back, why push ahead with this freeze?

KEN SIM: Well, a few reasons, but we also had hundreds of people that wrote in and support. And so, no, look, we have a lot of challenges in the city of Vancouver. And, you know, we, we have crumbling housing stock that really needs to get fixed. And what's, so when we're looking at this issue, you know, we came to the conclusion Vancouver represents 25 per cent of the region's population. And we take on 77 per cent of the supportive housing, 67 per cent of the shelter space, and 50 per cent of the social housing. I share the view of many. You know, what we're doing right now isn't working. We can do a lot better. And so, what we said was we're going to pause any net new supportive housing that gets built as we catch our breath and, you know, start repairing and replacing the crumbling SRO stock that we have. And I don't know if any of your listeners have been through one of the --

NK: Single room accommodation, I should say.

KS: Oh, yeah, I'm sorry. Yeah, Single room accommodation. But these things are uninhabitable. It's actually not humane. They're terrible places, and we need to fix that.

NK: People around the country know a couple of things. They certainly know when they hear Downtown Eastside that, that there are people who are struggling there. And they also know, wherever they live, the deep need for housing. So, I think people might wonder, why does it have to be an either/or approach? Why can't you work on revitalizing existing housing stock, but still continue with new projects as well?

KS: Oh, we currently are, and so we are focused on revitalizing existing housing stock. And anything that's coming on stream, we're committed to building. And anything that gets applied for and approved over the next six months, we are continuing to do that as well. Anything that touches seniors or youth. So, there's a whole list of, you know, supportive housing that we will continue to build. And the stuff works. What I do want to stress is two things. One, we also have a lot of crumbling stock that we need to repair. And the situation's pretty dire. The second thing is we need other cities in the region to step up. So that, you know, when I talked about we have currently seven projects in the Downtown Eastside that are coming on stream, almost 800 units. We need the region to step up because there are individuals that live in Surrey, and that live in Burnaby, and live in different regions of this, you know, the Lower Mainland who are looking for care in their home communities, but there are no supports there, there's no housing there. And so, they are forced to come to the Downtown East Side.

NK: But Amanda Burrows, with the nonprofit First United, told our CBC News Vancouver colleagues that the majority of people there are Vancouver residents, so isn't it they are members of your community?

KS: No, that's actually inaccurate. It depends on how you account the, like, the housing and the homelessness counts and the question you answer. But even in that chamber yesterday, people were using the number of 50 per cent. Well, if that's 50 per cent, Vancouver, you know, takes on 77 per cent of the supportive housing. So, there still is an imbalance. I would invite you, and if you want, I will tour you through the SROs that are crumbling. They are not livable. And we need to repair that. It's not dignified. It's not humane.

NK: Why haven't they been repaired? It's hard for people to wrap their, yes, there is deep need. Yes, there are people who are struggling. Yes, that number has exploded. But why are these buildings crumbling now? Why, why, why haven't they been fixed to this point?

KS: Yeah, that's a great, that's a really great question. But our administration, we just came in a year-and-a-half or two years ago now. And that was one of our focuses. Like, if you look at our 94-page or point platform, we said enough with the quantity of housing. We want to provide quality, dignified housing to the most vulnerable residents of the city of Vancouver.

NK: You said previously that you wanted to encourage a mix of businesses, housing, and services, and you wanted to break the cycle of what you've called hyper-concentrated social services in the neighbourhood. There are critics who, who hear that, as you well know, and say this sounds a lot like forced gentrification. Those are their words. What would you say to those who say you're, this is just about gentrifying very valuable, what will be very valuable Vancouver real estate and pushing people out of the area?

KS: I think any healthy, for any neighbourhood to be healthy, you need, you know, a diverse group of residents that live in the neighbourhood, okay? But maybe, you know, I'll just be very blunt. Anyone who's been down to the Downtown Eastside, if they can tell me that it's working there, I'd like to hear it. Because it's not. Let's just face that brutal reality. If we continue to do what we are doing, and we expect different results, that's actually the definition of insanity. And the Downtown Eastside has been a very, like, it's a beautiful, but it's been a very-challenged neighborhood for the last 40 years.

NK: One of the other reasons your critics are concerned, Mayor, is a city memo drafted by, by your chief of staff from last October that was leaked to the media. In part, it talks about an idea of fast-tracking private development in the Downtown Eastside. What do you say to those who are, who are concerned about what that might mean?

KS: First of all, we're not going to do that. That was a working draft. And then we beat those things up. And, you know, some things make it through and some don't. And that's it. And I can tell you, you know, I think you're referring to the spot rezoning. But that's not, that didn't make the final cut. So, it's a non-issue.

NK: Your colleague on council, Mike Claassen, spoke to CBC News Vancouver this week, and conceded, you know, said a lot of what you've said as well, and supported this. But did say, you know, there's a chance this may not work. But he said there's, you know, we have to do something because what we've been doing has not worked, in his view. What is your vision, Mayor, at the end of this in the best-case scenario if this does succeed as you want it to?

KS: Well, the, more people will get the care they need and the supports they need in the communities that they want to be in. And people will feel safe walking down the street.

NK: Ken, we'll leave it there. Thank you for your time.

KS: Great. Thank you very much.

CH: Ken Sim is the Mayor of Vancouver. And that’s where we reached him.

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Prairie Green Remains

CH: The families of Morgan Harris and Marcedes Myran have spent years fighting to get the news they finally received yesterday. But that doesn't mean it hurt any less. Manitoba officials say potential human remains have been found at the Prairie Green Landfill outside of Winnipeg, as part of a search to find the Indigenous women murdered by a serial killer. The previous Conservative government refused to support the search, citing high costs and safety concerns. The current provincial NDP government and the federal government are paying for this search, which finally began in October. One of the people who was integral in making it happen was Cathy Merrick -- the late grand chief of the Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs, who died in September. At a press conference today, Morgan Harris's daughter Elle talked about her.

SOUNDCLIP

ELLE HARRIS: My first stop was Cathy. I knew she would be really proud of how far we made it, and how far we've fought, and how far we've gotten, even without her being here. And how far she's fought for us. I know she'd be very, very, very proud of where we are, and how far I've gotten myself. Because I remember when this all started, I, it was very, very hard on me. I remember I was dropping out of school, and I didn't see myself making it too far in life after I found out about my mom. Because I just turned 18, I just became an adult without my mother. And yesterday, all I could think about is I want my mom. [crying] No one should go through any type of heartbreak without their mom. And, again, to everyone of you that said no, to every one of you that didn't believe in us, do better, do better. How could you? How can you say no to somebody's little girl? That's my mom in there. And I'm very proud of how far I've made it without her. That I've graduated, and that I'm living on my own. And I'm doing a lot better than where I was two years ago. And I'm on my, my journey of healing. But every day, every day, I just think I want my mom. And I want you all to think of that for everyone of single view who said no. To the police system, to the government, you sit there and think about this. And think of how far we made it, even though you said no. Look where we made it. Look where we are now. And we're not done. Not at all.

TANYA TALAGA: Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Elle. I mean, Cambria has a kid now, right? Like, another thing, these are these are generations that you are having through this who, hopefully, will never have to even learn about any of this in the way that, you know, you guys have had to go through this, right? You've stepped a step in being, like, the mom of the family in this way. What do you sort of say about, like, this next generation of women that you're hope, that you're doing this for, right, that this never happens to any other women again?

MELISSA ROBINSON: I know for myself, for my husband, we will continue, you know, to push for that change, so that our grandchildren will never have to experience any of this. You know, go through the same heartbreak. You know, it's, it's damaged us internally. You know, so we want to, we want to be that change. And that's why we said it stops here.

CH: That was Morgan Harris's cousin Melissa Robinson, and before her, Morgan Harris' daughter Elle, talking to Globe and Mail journalist Tanya Talaga, at a press conference today.

[uke!!!]

Shawna Forester Smith Obit

Guest: Paul Samyn

CH: Almost exactly a year ago, Shawna Forester Smith became a columnist for Winnipeg Free Press. In her final column this month she wrote, quote, "If you're reading this, it means I have left this Earth for whatever is next." Unquote. Ms. Forester Smith was an Ojibwe healthcare advocate who lived in a chronic-care unit at Deer Lodge Centre. She wrote all her columns from her hospital bed. On February 14th, she was admitted to the ICU, and died of complications from pneumonia. Her work gave readers real insights into the local healthcare system, and into her own very personal battle. And Paul Samyn was her collaborator. He's the editor of the Winnipeg Free Press. We reached him in Winnipeg.

NK: Paul, you, you were first introduced to Shawna in a way when Shawna reached out to you, what did she say in that email?

PAUL SAMYN: Well, it was an interesting email. Again, I had never met Shawna. I, to this day, I didn't have a chance to meet her. And that's that's a regret of mine. But she sent me a note out of the blue. And, and made a pitch to come aboard as a columnist. And what kind of caught my eye was the way she sort of introduced herself by just sort of saying hi. I'm in chronic care at Deer Lodge Hospital, which is actually a hospital I know well. My mum worked there and I grew up a few blocks from it. And then, she went on, and at one point, she paused and said, you know, please keep on reading, there's a point to be made. And as I was going through this, I thought, you know what? We write all these health care stories. Challenges here in Manitoba, I'm sure, are not dissimilar from the challenges of your listeners elsewhere across this country. And to have an opportunity to someone be our eyes and ears from inside, I said what the heck, Shawna! I read to the end, as you urged me to do, and, and you're coming on board as a writer for us.

NK: Well, how did she react when you said yes? [PS chuckles] That's a pretty big risk to take at a very difficult time in one's life.

PS: She, you know, shared subsequently with our readers that, you know, she'd had this idea for a while, but was, was scared to make the pitch. So, I think I probably shocked her a little bit. And, but we got things rolling fairly quickly. And, in fact, her first column appeared February 24th, so literally a year ago.

NK: So, that firsthand account you're talking about, that, that, that look, that very personal inside look into the healthcare system in a very specific way. How did readers react?

PS: You know, I think it takes a while for anyone to build an audience, but I think what Shawna was able to bring was the kind of insights in a very honest, frequently very raw kind of way that resonated with many of our readers. In part, because that may have been their experience, either because that happened to them or that happened to their loved ones. But there were a number of ingredients, I think, that make a great columnist. And in Shawna's case, one was she had been in the healthcare system working for the Winnipeg Regional Health Authority. So, she had some authority to write about stuff because, prior to being hospitalized, she was in the system. The other thing, too, is she was able to write in a way, I think, that allowed her to connect to our readers, just and catch their attention. I have here a column from April. Technically speaking, I suppose it qualified as a grilled cheese sandwich. The bread was toasted at one point. It was moist now from sitting warm in a plastic dome, and collecting humidity in re-thermalized units for hours. The cheese had been melted, even though it was now more aptly described as congealed. I was curious. It was probably going to be gross, but it took a bite anyway. It was disgusting. And sadly, that would be my last grilled cheese sandwich ever. So, she wrote about hospital food And, in part, I think, because of what she wrote in that column, the Winnipeg Regional Health Authority subsequently did a media event where they brought reporters in to actually go through the kitchen to try and make the point that it may not be that bad. So, I think she was able to capture what people, what she was experiencing, but capture an audience in very strong writing.

NK: She was, she also held a master's degree in health leadership, we should say. And people, the readers didn't just take in her words. They reached out to her, right?

PS: Yes. And this started to get this feedback. And, and I think it was something that really helped her through a very difficult time, and allowed her to, to recognize that, that she was making a difference. And I think for someone who had been on, as part of the healthcare system, presumably, you know, in her previous role, trying to improve the system, she was finding a way to improve by highlighting things that, frankly, the healthcare system didn't want people to know about.

NK: She, of course, knew that she was dying, and she wanted to do this in large part because of that. She drafted her final column about three months ago, as I understand it, and she names you in it, saying you took a chance on her, and that she made sure to thank you for that. How did that hit you?

PS: Well, you know, well, one, I appreciate it. But I think, really, the person who needs to be thanked here is Shawna for doing something that I think no other newspaper has, has had. Something that I think our readers, and I dare say Manitobans, deserved to read about. So, one, I appreciate what she said. But, really, I do want to, I do want to thank Shawna. And, and the, think about it for a second. She knew what her path was likely to be. She planned for that, and she ensured that even in death, she would find a way to meet that deadline for her column. And, and we have heard from lots of readers, we've had letters to the editor, I've had emails and other conversations with people who, who recognize the loss now, not just in terms of Shawna's own life, but I think the difference that she was making from a hospital bed. We've had a lot of journalists, a lot of columnists in our 152 year-history, none was writing from a bedside in a chronic care ward.

NK: Paul, I appreciate this. Thank you.

PS: Thank you so much.

CH: Paul Samyn is the editor of Winnipeg Free Press. We reached him in Winnipeg.

[ambient]

Irish Island Couple

Guests: Camille Rosenfeld, James Hayes

CH: The newlywed stage of a relationship is a time of beginnings. A time of discovery. A time of forging new paths, and embarking on new adventures. Of moving off the grid and saying goodbye to everyone you know to live on a remote island with no running water or electricity. OK, you don't have to do that last part. But Camille Rosenfeld and James Hayes will. They got married last June, and before their first year of marriage is up, they will move -- temporarily -- to Great Blasket Island. It's a small island in the Atlantic Ocean, just off the west coast of Ireland. It has a rich history filled with the on-and-off residencies of fisherman, scholars, and artists. And for six months, starting in April, Ms. Rosenfeld and Mr. Hayes will be its only permanent residents. They will be the caretakers of Great Blasket Island. And, as I said, they'll have no running water or electricity. We reached Camille Rosenfeld and James Hayes in Tralee, County Kerry, Ireland.

NK: Camille, James, who pitched this idea first?

JAMES HAYES: I suppose that would be me. So, I'm from County Kerry, where the island is located, and I grew up here. And it's something that I've always known about. It was kind of in the back of my mind, ah, this might be something, you know, something to try. And, yeah, I suggested to Camille, and she was totally for it. [NK chuckles] And, yeah, we were, now we're going.

NK: Well, let me ask you, Camille, when he popped that question, you already said yes the first time. But when he popped that question, what did you think?

CAMILLE ROSENFELD: Oh my gosh, I was, I was so, kind of taken aback at the whole idea of it. Or, like, excited by the prospect, I guess. I don't know, like, it seems like such a dream come true, you know? That you wouldn't even think it would be a possibility. So, we decided to throw our hat in the ring.

NK: It does, it does look beautiful from the photographs I've seen. But what makes it a dream come true? Because some, even if they like the pictures, would say, you know, no running water, no electricity, first year of marriage, no Wi-Fi, [CR chuckles] all of it completely disconnected. I mean, you could go a lot of different ways. So, what makes it a dream come true for you guys?

CR: Well, I mean, you mentioned the beauty. If anybody looks at photos of the island, like, it's just, it's so idyllic. But there's a lot of visitors that come out, both overnight and just for day trips. So, I think the idea of getting to meet all of those people who are attracted to the island in the same kind of way that we are, that's really exciting. And then, also, just being disconnected is such a luxury in the times that we live in now. So, the chance to do that in a place where you can hear the ocean, and see the stars, and live by the candlelight is amazing. And for you, James?

JH: Yeah, I suppose, like, my motivation, like, it is also partly professional because I'm a professional artist. I'm a figurative and landscape painter. So, part of my interest in going to the island is to gain inspiration for possibly my next body of work.

NK: Yeah, you will have work there as caretakers, obviously. So, so, what will that day-to-day work be like?

JH: Yeah. So, like, our primary role is really to look after guests to the island. There are three holiday cottages. So, basically, just liaising with guests, and turning over cottages, and we'll run a little cafe in the afternoons.

CR: Yeah, but cafe that's really, like, boiling, boiling water on the gas hob and seeing how many teas we can make.

JH: Teas and coffees only. [NK and CR chuckle]

CR: Yeah. And then, any just little bits and pieces that need to be done. We're just an extra set of hands on the ground. So, there are some farmers with sheep, like farmers on the mainland who have sheep on the island. And then, there's you just, you know, anything, really. We haven't been out there as, since we've been, since we've been hired or told that we have the job. So, it is a bit of a mystery to us as well. We only really know it generally.

NK: And, James, you've been there once, right? Camille, you've never seen it other than the pictures.

JH: Yeah. Once before, I suppose. When I was in college, I went there on a day trip, like many of the tourists that we'll be meeting over the summer did. And it really captured my imagination at the time. And, yeah, like I say, this was long before these positions were being offered. And, yeah, but it's always been on my radar, I suppose, in growing up in Kerry, as I say, the history of the island, it's kind of a cultural landmark.

NK: Camille, it doesn't sound like you're nervous that, that what you've seen, what, you know, that reality won't live up to the expectations of what you've seen in the pictures.

Tate Brothers Travel

Guest: Marton Dunai

CH: Right-wing influencers, self-described misogynists, and accused rapists Andrew and Tristan Tate have touched down in Florida. And they may have President Donald Trump to thank for their freedom. The brothers were arrested in Romania in 2022, and charged with a slew of crimes including human trafficking, sex with a minor, and money-laundering. They deny any wrongdoing. But their passports were seized, and they were banned from leaving the country. Then, earlier this month, the Financial Times reported that members of President Trump's administration were pressuring Romanian authorities to lift the travel restrictions on the Tates. And this morning, that happened. And the brothers promptly boarded a private jet and flew to the U.S. Speaking to reporters today alongside U.K. Prime Minister Keir Starmer, the president denied knowing anything about their travel plans.

SOUNDCLIP

REPORTER: For President Trump, Andrew and Tristan Tate landed in Florida today on a private jet after being released from custody in Romania. They are accused rapists, human traffickers, not thought of as good people in many circles. Did your administration pressured the Romanian government to release them? And if so --

DONALD TRUMP: I know nothing about that. I don't know. You're saying he's on a plane right now?

REPORTER: He's back. They're already back.

DT: Yeah, I just know nothing about it. We'll check it out. We'll let you know.

[crosstalk]

CH: Marton Dunai is the South-East Europe correspondent for the Financial Times. He was one of the reporters who broke the story. We reached him in Bucharest, Romania. And a warning, this conversation includes descriptions of violence against women.

NK: Marton, have officials released any, any reasons for lifting these restrictions on their travel?

MARTON DUNAI: Not much, to be honest with you. It was just the fact that they received their passports back, and the fact that the, the case against them continues. And they have to report back in the country at the end of March. But what changed is not really clear.

NK: And that's telling in a way as well. I mean, that, that, that, the fact that there isn't a lot of transparency, what does that suggest to you about this case?

MD: Well, I, the only other reason that I can mention here is, is what's based on our own reporting that high-ranking officials in the U.S. government and people in the, people close to President Trump have put some pressure on Romania to release the Tate brothers, at least allow them to travel freely while their case is ongoing. And while officially, most of the people I spoke to denied this, a week-and-a-half later, lo and behold, they received their passports back and board a plane that then goes to the nearest airport to Mar-a-Lago. So, I mean [chuckle], you know, you, you make you make up your mind about this.

NK: Is there a sense from what you've been able to dig up so far about why the U.S. president may want these brothers to be back in the United States?

MD: Their particular brand of, of, of misogynist, macho, sexist, anti-feminist, masculine, you name it, world appeals to a lot of especially young males. And that was a critical demographic that was missing from, from among supporters of Donald Trump. And I'm not sure how much intentionality was in this, but, but the Tates began to support Trump very vehemently. So, a sort of, you know, return of the favour kind of thing. But also, there's an element of a personal here. Because Barron Trump, the president's youngest son, is a big fan of these guys, not only particularly the Tate brothers, but a wider pool of podcast hosts. And so, because these manosphere podcasters form a sort of a loose clique, it was almost as if they, you know, one prominent member of the gang was now receding back into the fold, so to speak. So, there was an element in there, I guess.

NK: Yeah. You know, influencer is not an incorrect word to use to describe this pair. They certainly hold influence, and, and use that influence. But it's much more than that. Can you, for our listeners who have had the good fortune of not seeing some of their output, how would you describe the kinds of things that they've been posting and saying?

MD: Luckily, to be honest with you, until a couple of weeks ago, I was not forced to delve too deep in their content. But, but I did look at some of their, some of their stuff more recently when I had to take stock of them. And basically, it's just a lot of uber macho, you know, when I, it's hard to even replicate what they do without swearwords. But, you know, when a woman doesn't do what you want her to do, you can slap her around and tell her to shut up, and duh, duh duh. And the guy just sits there behind a microphone and goes, and goes, you know, wilder and wilder and wilder things. It's really hair-raising. It's really full of vice, and animosity, and aggression.

NK: Yeah. They describe how to physically assault women if those women accuse them of cheating. I won't read the quote that's in Reuters, but it's, it is quite, quite graphic. They are accused of, of criminal acts. They've denied these allegations. A judge ruled recently the trial could not go forward. But what exactly were prosecutors alleging that they did?

MD: Convincing young women to pose for them and shoot, you know, erotic videos for them. And then, posting those videos online on various sites. And then they, you know, take money for. And, and they were benefiting financially from this. Basically, a sort of digital pimping, if you like. It's a matter of, you know, you have to really, you know, you go knee deep in really, you know, untoward stuff. But it's a matter of, you know, did the women agree to this sort of set up? Or were they forced to forcibly? You know, filmed. And then, was there an element of rape? And was there not? And what I know is that some of the women that have taken action against them, including half a dozen women in the U.K., are, are traumatized to the, to the, to the degree that even the news of them being released and allowed to go to the U.S., they say retraumatized them. And, and you know, this, this sort of thing has the potential to destroy women for life. And it's really no joke. And I personally think that this is a really dangerous thing that they're doing.

NK: They are facing, we should let our listeners know, these brothers, they're facing charges of rape in the United Kingdom. Is there any sense at this point, from what you've seen as you do your work, that they could be extradited to face those charges?

MD: The U.K. is working to get them extradited. There was, the Romanian courts there also are continuing the procedures against them, said that there's no, they had no objections to that. But first, the Romanian case had to close. Now that, now, the Tates are obviously in the U.S., but they have an obligation to report back to the Romanian authorities at the end of March.

NK: Do you think they will? [chuckle]

MD: My first instinct is, is, yes, they will go, will come back to, to Bucharest, and will try to prove their innocence. You know, several cases await them in the U.K. And even if they get away from that, there's several cases in the U.S, several lawsuits from, you know, all sorts of things. So, it's not like these guys will be cleared completely anytime soon.

NK: Marton, I appreciate your time.

MD: Thank you very much.

CH: Marton Dunai is the Financial Times' South-East Europe correspondent. He's in Bucharest, Romania.

[folk]

CDN Soccer Coach

CH: At a time of international political tension, Jesse Marsch is in an interesting position. The American is currently the head coach of the Canadian men's national soccer team. Speaking in Los Angeles, ahead of next month's Concacaf Nations League Finals, the Wisconsin native had some strong words when asked about President Trump's recent comments on Canada becoming the 51st state. And given the heated political climate, he said that matches against the U.S. "mean something different now".

SOUNDCLIP

JESSE MARSCH: Now these international tournaments for Canada mean something different now. And, you know, I, as an American, I'd like to address the 51st state discourse, which I find unsettling, and, and frankly, insulting. Canada's a strong, independent nation that's deep rooted in decency, really. And it's a place that values high ethics and respect. Unlike the polarized, disrespectful, and often now hate-fueled climate that's in the U.S. And Canada values a lot of fairness and unity. It's a place that I've learned as the national team coach, where people really believe that their differences make them stronger. And, honestly, it's one of the things that I've enjoyed the most about our team is, is that they exemplify this as human beings and as a team. And, look, they're almost all first and second-generation Canadians coming from different heritage and cultures, but they, uniquely are incredibly proud to be Canadian, to represent their country, to give everything to each other, and the love that they have for each other and, and playing for their country. And, to me, this sounds very familiar to years past, right? So, for me right now, I couldn't be prouder to be the Canadian national team coach. And I found a place where that embodies for me the, the, the ideals and morals of what not just football and a team is, but what life is. And that's integrity, respect, and the belief that good people can do great things together. And so, if I have one message to our president, it's lay off the ridiculous rhetoric about Canada being the 51st state. As an American, I'm ashamed, right, of the, of the arrogance and disregard that we've shown one of our historically oldest, strongest, and most loyal allies.

CH: That’s the coach of Canada's men's national soccer team, Jesse Marsch.

[indie rock]

Gene Hackman Obit

CH: There are plenty of questions today about the deaths of actor Gene Hackman; his wife, Betty Arakawa; and one of their dogs. The sheriff’s office in Santa Fe County, New Mexico is looking into their deaths, which authorities have deemed "suspicious enough" to warrant an investigation. What's not remotely in question is the brilliance of Mr. Hackman, and the many highlights in his phenomenal career. He won two Oscars, and inhabited the roles of everyone from Superman's nemesis Lex Luthor to Detective Jimmy "Popeye" Doyle -- the tough, rule-bending protagonist of The French Connection. His career began onstage. And Mr. Hackman said he never imagined he'd have the kind of success he had. Here he is speaking to the BBC in 1986.

SOUNDCLIP

GENE HACKMAN: It's funny that I never had any large goals as an actor. All I wanted to do was work. I loved it so much that I wanted, you know, I'm off-Broadway, and then a small part on television, maybe, and then Broadway. And, and that all kind of happened. And then, I, I, from a Broadway show, I was cast in a film called Lilith that Warren Beatty and Jean Seberg were in. And Warren then remembered me from that, and getting me a part in Bonnie and Clyde.

TERRY WOGAN: And that was really when the bandwagon started.

GH: That's right. Yeah.

TW: But before that, you'd had hard times in New York along with Dustin Hoffman and Robert Duvall.

GH: We were all buddies together. Dusty and I had gone to Pasadena Playhouse together, and then we became great pals in New York.

TW: Did you ever confide in each other what your great dreams were? Do you ever when you meet now say, well, it worked out?

GH: I think our great dreams were just to keep working, just the tiny jobs, just the, you know, anything. You know, Bobby Duvall and I used to go around terrified that we would get a job. But, you know, terrified to meet the agents. And we had our eight-by-ten glossies with all this made-up stuff on the back, and we hadn't done anything. [TW chuckles] And we would go knock on doors, and slip our resumes under the door, and run like thieves. I don't know what we expected to get from that? [TW laughs] But it was amazing how, you know, things do work out that all three of us have won Academy Awards and, and have done some, you know, pretty interesting films.

TW: Do you do it for the art, or for the money?

GH: Absolutely art. The money comes secondary. [both chuckle] It's funny that after Superman, the first Superman, and I was paid quite well for that, and I, I didn't really like my work in it after the film was over. And I decided to stop. And I did quit for two years. And then, when I wanted to come back to work, it took a long time to get a job. But I've decided since then that one can do those things where you're paid money, obviously, for a, in a big budget film, and you're paid to, to bring a kind of a life to it, and it's kind of fun. It really is. You, one gets used to that bigger-than-life attitude about that kind of role in Superman. I really enjoy it.

CH: From 1986, that's Gene Hackman, speaking to the BBC's Terry Wogan. Police are investigating, after Mr. Hackman and his wife were both found dead inside their home yesterday.

[chillhop house tour music]

Pothole Decorator

Guest: James Coxall

CH: The loud clunk; the unpleasant lurch that makes you bounce your head off the window; the sense that there's now damage to some part under your car you don't know the name of. These are the terrible gifts of the pothole -- after which you white-knuckle your steering wheel, your hands clenched at ten and two, and your head throbbing, for the rest of your journey. Drivers in Castle Camps, Cambridgeshire, England are very familiar with this brand of road rage. Their roads have a whole lot of holes. But one pothole in particular has especially drawn the ire of community members. Local resident James Coxall and his family had enough of the bumpy ride -- so he took matters in his own hands, to bring attention to the state of the road. We reach Mr. Coxall in Castle Camps.

NK: James, help us picture this pothole, if you could.

JAMES COXALL: So, it's about sort of four foot long, by three foot wide. And in the middle, we measured it today, it's about four inches deep.

NK: Oh man! And how many times do you think you've [laughing] stumbled through, if that's the right way, or bumped through that pothole?

JK: Or bumped through. Oh, I should think I go that way about four times a week, so drive past it, yeah, four, four, four, times-ish a week.

NK: And how long has it been there?

JK: It's been eight months.

NK: And so, at which point, which, which of those bumps did you say, okay, I need to do something in the way that only I can? [both chuckle]

JK: Well, it was on Sunday. We were driving to the town to get something. We were coming back, and we keep on seeing it with the family in the car. We keep on saying we must do something funny and amusing to it. So I said, right, we'll do it today. And we came home, I got some wood out the shed, and we on the kitchen table, the kids helped, we drilled in some wood for the legs. We found an old pair of the jeans that we're going to the charity shop. We put them on. We stuffed it with some rags. And then, we screwed a pair of their old shoes on top. I walked it down under my arm, and the kids went on their bikes. And me, the wife, and the kids put it in the pothole with a brick to sort of weigh it down a bit. And that's what we did.

NK: So, it's, it's two legs sticking out from the pothole upside down, as if someone, as if a person.

JK: Upside down, yeah.

NK: How did you come up with that idea to do it? I mean, what, why that as opposed to something else?

JK: Oh, well, we just thought that would be the most amusing way to sort of highlight the pothole.

NK: And your children, I mean, it must feel like they're, they're the luckiest kids there?

JK: Yes, they do. Yeah. They've even, even had it on the screen at school showing, showing the children at the school the newspaper cuttings and stuff. So, it's been quite amusing.

NK: That's a pretty good show and tell. That's a pretty good one for their, for their show and career at school. That might top it. How, well, how are their classmates but also your your neighbours reacting. Because does this make it even harder for them to get around it now?

JK: [chuckle] Everyone's found it quite amusing. I've had lots of text of different people asking was it me? Then, lots of messages and stuff today asking, a lot of people who know me that I'm a bit of a joker, so a lot of people knew it was me.

NK: You have a reputation?

JH: Yes.

NK: And what other things have you done to develop that reputation?

JK: Things around the village, I suppose, when, probably when I was a bit younger. And then things at work, just sort of practical jokes or things.

NK: Was the idea just to make people laugh? Or to get something done about the pothole?

JK: Well, it was sort of a bit of both. It's to make people laugh more than anything, but also to highlight how bad [chuckle] the roads actually are in this country.

NK: Have you, have you reported it officially? I think the local county council is saying there's, you know, there's an online portal for people to, to report potholes. And that's what people should do. Does that not work?

JK: No, it doesn't. They had repaired it at some point. And after like a month, I suppose, it started to deteriorate again and get worse. And within the space of, I don't know, six weeks, it got so you couldn't really drive through it again.

NK: And has anything happened since you, since you put your installation in there?

JK: They, they, I've actually, at about 2:30, 3 today, the council actually came up with a lorry and all the stuff and they filled it in.

NK: You effected change, James.

JK: I did, yes, in a very strange way. But they came and filled it in. Yeah.

NK: But did they bury your, your, your art? [chuckling]

JK: No, they didn't bury the art. My wife is driving past, and she jumped out of the car, and she saved the art off the side of the road.

NK: [laughing] She was there as it was happening?

JK: Yes.

NK: [chuckling] You know, our show could probably do several episodes of running previous interviews about what people are doing to cover or draw attention to potholes. I mean, this is, this is something that unifies people, certainly around the world, I would say. Well, in many countries. But are there any others on your list that you're planning to fill in?

JK: Oh yeah, I think I could find a few more. Definitely. Maybe do something a bit different like the Titanic sinking or something. [NK laughs] That would be quite cool, wouldn't it? That'd be quite good fun.

NK: How confident are you that this one's going to stick?

JK: It looks. I've got, my wife took some photos. It looks pretty good, but we will have to wait and see, won't we, if it, if it survives wind, and rain, and cars driving over it. And then, then we'll see if it's fixed, won't we? But I'm not that confident.

NK: Were you, were you always able to joke about these things, or was there rage first? Because a lot of people don't respond by laughing as they try to make their way around these potholes.

JK: Yeah, I suppose, yeah, you've got to have a laugh and a joke, haven't you?

NK: Yeah. So, you never were enraged?

JK: I was never that enraged. It is incredibly frustrating driving around on the roads with holes everywhere in them, and people's cars and damaged, and your, your, you know, your tire getting busted. But, yeah, it takes a lot for me to get in enraged. But it is frustrating. Really frustrating.

NK: James, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

JK: No problem at all.

CH: James Coxall is a pothole prankster in Castle Camps, England. And that's where we reached him.

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Part 3: Cologne Carnival Float, New Texas Sunflower

Mini-Update: Richard Glossip

CH: Richard Glossip's execution has been scheduled nine times -- and there just might not be a 10th time. In 1998, Mr. Glossip was convicted of the murder of a motel owner. He was sentenced to death. Over and over again, a date was set for him to be executed. But he's always received a reprieve, in some form. Throughout all that, he's adamantly maintained his innocence. And last year, before the U.S. Supreme Court, lawyers argued that his conviction should be thrown out, because evidence had been mishandled in his trial. Today the court agreed -- and ordered a new trial. Kevin McDugle was an Oklahoma state representative who participated in a bipartisan push to investigate Mr. Glossip's conviction -- and one of a number of Oklahoma Republicans who wanted the Supreme Court to step in to prevent Mr. Glossip's death, despite believing in the death penalty. Nil spoke to Mr. McDugle last October.

SOUNDCLIP

KEVIN MCDUGLE: There's no paperwork, there's no evidence, there's no anything else other than the actual murderer gets a deal and gets off of death row by turning Richard Glossip in and testifying in court against him.

NK: Have you met Richard Glossip since becoming so involved in this case?

KM: I have. He comes from a family of 11 kids. He was living here in Oklahoma at that time, had a girlfriend, working to support his family. I mean, he was almost executed three times. And at every one of those executions, when they gave him his last meal, he shared it with the local guard that was at his door. And I asked him, I said, Richard, why would you do that? And he said, you know, they can take away your freedom, but they can't take away your gift of giving. It's the one thing that I had left. I could still give. But he had opportunities to get out of death row if he would have confessed to the murder. But he said, why would I confess to something I didn't do?

NK: You mentioned the attorney general. The current attorney general, Gentner Drummond, is, as you've said, part of this, the Supreme Court push to, to overturn this conviction. If he believes his office failed Mr. Glossip, and that Glossip did not get a fair trial, why can the attorney general just not overturn the conviction himself?

KM: Well, he can't because it was already in the process. It was in the court's hands. And so, what did happen here in Oklahoma, which just blows me away, is once he made that ruling, he wrote to the state's highest court. He told them, I, after a third-party investigation, don't believe that he got a fair trial. And we need to at least have a new hearing, and possibly set a new trial. And for the courts to ignore the top law enforcement officer in the state. And say, you know what? We're going to ignore you. Because it's unprecedented. It's first time in Oklahoma's history that the top law enforcement officer actually sided with the defendant.

NK: And this isn't the first time we've, we've seen this happen. We've seen prosecutors revisit cases, even admit to errors. So, what message do you think all of this sends to Americans about their justice system?

KM: Well, I'll tell you that the message I have, right now, we're flawed. If they execute Richard Glossip, I will fight hard against the death penalty in Oklahoma because it's not fair or just.

CH: From last year, that was Oklahoma state representative Kevin McDugle talking about Richard Glossip. Today, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled to dismiss Mr. Glossip's murder conviction and dealth penalty, and ordered a new trial. Mr. Glossip's wife told the Associated Press, quote, "To say that we are overcome with emotion is an understatement. We are deeply grateful. Today is truly an answered prayer". Unquote.

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Cologne Carnival Float

Guest: Michael Kramp

CH: This week, Cologne, Germany unveiled some of the floats that will be part of its Rose Monday Parade -- which is part of the annual Cologne Carnival. One float depicts Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy slamming a heart-shaped hammer into Vladimir Putin's head; another, Donald Trump holding a dog leash around the Statue of Liberty's neck; and another has the leader of Germany's far-right party holding flowers for Russia. Clearly, this isn't a Santa Claus Parade. But even in this irreverent context, one float is controversial. It's the one with an arm sticking out of a confessional, with its index finger luring beckoning to an altar boy -- accompanied by the words "Jesus Loves You." Michael Kramp is a board member of the Carnival Committee. We reached him in Cologne.

NK: Michael, you didn't build this float, but the board you are on approved it. What was your initial reaction when you saw it?

MICHAEL KRAMP: Oh, I thought that the problem that they have in, especially the Catholic Church, is shown very well. That you can read Jesus Loves You, and that was maybe one of the sentences people use to young boys into, the into the church.

NK: When a lot of our listeners hear carnival, and float, and parade, they don't think of social commentary. What is your carnival all about? Let's start there.

MK: It's the jester's job in Germany to hold up a mirror, to society, to politicians, but also to the big players in the society. So, we do this with our carnival floats, which show political or socially critical scenes.

NK: You know, for those who haven't seen it yet, it is, it's almost like a satirical newspaper cartoon come to life on a float. It's cartoonish. The --

MK: Yeah, it's a bit like a cartoon, but it's three dimensional. And you can see from both sides of the parade. And, but it's it's like a cartoon.

NK: But that shouldn't. That is certainly not to say that it's not surprising to see or distressing, even upsetting for a lot of people, as you likely know. What message are the floats creators and you as the board hoping to send with this float?

MK: We hope to send the message that people don't forget that there are a lot of people who have to live with the abuse in the last years, and we have a big discussion in Germany, but also, I think in other countries, in Australia, in Ireland, and also in Canada, I think about people who have to live with, with this problem over the years, and we don't want to stop talking about it. We, I think we should talk about this in society.

NK: It might also be upsetting or triggering for people who have experienced and survived abuse. What kind of response have you received from, from some survivors?

MK: Yeah, we got a lot of letters and emails. This was the first time, to be honest. Normally, we have floats over years and years, but never like this. We had a lot of critical emails, but, more or less, the same amount of people who said I was a victim of abuse. And please go with this, with this flow. Show everybody that this is still a problem also after decades of abuse and talking about it. But there are a lot of people, especially in church, who want to stop talking about it.

NK: For the survivors who wrote to you, it sounds like, you know, they recognize that this forces, or hope that this forces people to, to not look away?

MK: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

NK: On the critical side, though, as you know, and there are loud voices on that side as well. One of those voices is the former mayor, who said, quote, Carnival may provoke but not offend, unquote. How do you decide where to draw a line like that? Given the kind of carnival you put on, and the mirror you want to hold up?

MK: Yeah, it's, it's not so easy to, to define a red line, what you can do and what you shouldn't do. Our red line is it's normally that a lot of families are in the parade. We have about 1 million spectators there. And a lot of children and younger people. And we always show floats which you can show your children. We would never show naked people or something like that. You need some information that other people have. What is a confessional? What, what happens there? And what does it mean when there's a young altar boy standing in front of it? So, I think this is important for us. These are not explicit scenes, but nevertheless, we have problems in our society, not only in the church. We want to show a way to have a lot of political topics in the parade. And there's no black and white. You always have to discuss it. And that's what we want to have. And not only internal in our team, but also in the society. Is this okay? Is it not? Should we speak about it? Or should we forget it after years and years? And I think the discussion is the best that can happen after a parade.

NK: The Archdiocese and the Catholic Church certainly has a long standing presence in Cologne. The archdiocese has called the float, quote, tasteless. And there's others that are concerned, in particular, about the reference to, to Jesus that you described. And the archdiocese is saying that, that, that directly associates Jesus with the abuse. How do you respond to that criticism of tastelessness?

MK: Yeah, we can understand that some Christians find this offensive. But, of course, this was not our intention. We are also Christians., Were we are. I'm Catholic, and my colleagues are too. In Cologne, half of the people are Catholic Christians. So, for sure, it's not. It was not our intention to say that Jesus has done this abuse, but people in the church used Jesus to lure people into the church and do those things.

NK: Michael, I thank you for your time.

MK: Thank you very much.

CH: Michael Kramp is a board member of the Cologne Carnival Committee in Germany. We reached him in Cologne.

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Dem Newborn Vote

CH: Brittany Pettersen says she's glad she made the trip -- she just wishes she hadn't had to. This week, the Democratic Congresswoman travelled from Colorado to Washington to vote against House Republicans' budget blueprint. Ms. Pettersen would have preferred to vote by proxy -- not because the trip is especially arduous, but because she wasn't travelling alone.

SOUNDCLIP

BRITTANY PETTERSEN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today with my newborn Sam, who's just four weeks old. Unfortunately, I wasn't given the opportunity to vote remotely after giving birth, [Sam coos] but I wasn't going to let that stop me from being here to represent my constituents and vote no on this disastrous Republican budget proposal. Republicans and Trump promised to lower costs on Day One. And instead, their priorities have been focused on ripping healthcare away from kids, seniors, moms and others who need it most. And this is not going to save money. It includes people like my mom, who work for hourly wages, but are still unable to afford healthcare. When you aren't, when you don't have access to healthcare, you show up in the E.R. This is going to have a huge burden on our hospitals. And, unfortunately, [Sam cries] will have skyrocketing costs. I agree, Sam. [Sam coos] Hospitals will bear this burden. It also slashes SNAP, taking food off the plates for seniors, veterans and kids, all to fund tax breaks for billionaires like Elon Musk, while increasing our national deficit by trillions of dollars. How can anyone show their face in their district after voting yes for this? Thank you. I yield back.

CH: Democratic Congresswoman Brittany Pettersen speaking on the floor of the House of Representatives on Tuesday.

[chillhop house tour music]

New Texas Sunflower

Guest: Isaac Lichter-Marck

CH: Regardless how relentlessly we try to document and de-mystify our world, there's always something new and wonderful out there still to be found. For example: the woolly devil. A plant species that grows in the Texas desert, and belongs to the same family as the more commonly known sunflower. When it was discovered last spring in Big Bend National Park, botanists basically had a party. And now, a new study in the journal PhytoKeys sheds more light on what makes the Woolly Devil special. Isaac Lichter-Marck is an evolutionary biologist and daisy taxonomist at the California Academy of Sciences. He's also co-author of the new study. We reached him in Oakland, California.

NK: Isaac, I'm looking at photographs of, of this, this plant, the wooly devil. It's, it's not at all like what people imagine when they hear sunflower. Describe it for them.

ISAAC LICHTER-MARCK: [chuckle] So, you're looking at a tiny plant, about two to three centimetres across, growing in low desert, in soils that are made up of course limestone pebbles. The plant itself is covered in this dense wool. It's similar to the wool you would find on a sheep, but, of course, it's a different type of structure. And the plant almost blends in with the background, except for these two conspicuous ray flowers that pop out of the of the plant and lead the way down into its inflorescence, where a pollinator would go and pollinate the plant.

NK: It is quite lovely. I see where the wooly part comes from. Where does the devil part come from? [both chuckle]

ILM: So, the name was actually chosen by the park volunteer, Deb Manley, who discovered the plant last March. She chose that name because, you know, it's wooly. And the two ray florets kind of look like horns.

NK: Where does the sunflower part come into things, though?

ILM: Well, the sunflower family, you know, beyond the kind of recognizable sunflower that we all know, contains a lot of wild species that live in different places all over the world. It's actually the most diverse family of flowering plants. There's over 30,000 wild sunflower species. And they come in all ranges of sizes and shapes. They all have flowers that are made up of smaller florets that are gathered together. And can include the classic, you know, ray florets that are on the outside of a sunflower and disc florets that are in the centre. In this case, the flower is very small and reduced, and it just has a few of those ray florets. And, usually, they're white with maroon lines.

NK: It's quite beautiful when you, when you zoom into it. Because, as you say, they're, they're quite tiny. And you could easily miss them because of the, the sort of grey or white, you know, the colouring that the, that the wool gives them.

ILM: That's actually exactly what happened. The plant grows in a U.S. national park, but it's gone decades, kind of evading the attention of botanists who have worked in the area. And is actually a new species, you know, unrecognized by Western science. And a new genus.

NK: When you finally saw it first hand, what did that feel like? Because it was, it was sent to you. You were not in the park.

ILM: [chuckling] Yeah, that's right, I was I was contacted by botanists who had found the plant and applied for a permit to collect it. The first time I saw the plant, it was, you know, actually sent to me in the mail. So, I opened a letter. And inside were these strange, wooly dried balls, it looked like. [NK chuckles] And then, when I dug around and found, you know, some of the, the foliage, and flowers, and some of the, you know, the fruits, and was able to study them, I immediately, you know, knew that it was like nothing I'd ever seen before.

NK: What did you do with them?

ILM: [chuckling] I actually was able to give those leaves a little shave. And with, along with a student who was able to work with me on this project named Kaylee Peralta we extracted DNA from those leaves and compared it to DNA of other closely related species of wild sunflowers. And we, and we used a machine called a scanning electron microscope to look at the microanatomy of those leaves, and flowers, and fruits. And to, you know, gather data in order to solve the mystery of what the relationships were to this, you know, interesting plant and how to classify it.

NK: And what else did it reveal to you, that work?

ILM: So, we, we were unsurprised to discover that this was a new species. But one thing that was really surprising was that we discovered that the plant did not fit into any of the well recognized genera of wild sunflowers in the region, which meant that it was something very unique. A lot of people don't recognize that we're actually, you know, not very far along in the work of documenting our co inhabitants on Earth, and that every year, hundreds of new species are described. It's pretty rare, though, for something of this level of uniqueness to be discovered.

NK: And do you think that, that the wooly devil might be discovered in places beyond Big Bend?

ILM: I do, yeah. You know, in order to study the, the wooly devil, there was an international team of botanists -- we called ourselves Team Wooly -- that assembled to scour the collections of plants both in the U.S. And in northern Mexico, to see if there might have been examples of collections of this plant that could be left kind of in a museum from decades ago. We didn't find any examples, but we do think that people exploring, you know, parts of the Chihuahuan Desert might be able to encounter this plant and find new populations.

NK: And how is it doing as a wild species, though? [chuckle] I know you've, you've just discovered it, but what's your sense of how it's doing?

ILM: Yeah. So, so far, we only have very preliminary data. There's a lot we really don't understand about the population of this plant. So far, we've documented it just in three small populations. And in those populations it tends to be pretty abundant. But outside of those three small populations, which are all within a narrow area, the plant has yet to be documented. And we also know that the plant is one of these examples of an annual kind of ephemeral wildflower that grows in a short period of good weather after rain in the desert. There are a lot of different types of wildflowers that, that make up those, those, you know, striking blooms that draw a lot of people to the desert in a good year. And this is one of those. But those types of events have been rare in recent years, and are predicted to become more rare over time due to global climate change.

NK: Isaac, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

ILM: Thank you.

CH: Isaac Lichter-Marck is an evolutionary biologist and daisy taxonomist at the California Academy of Sciences. We reached him in Oakland, California.

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Pothole Pictures

CH: Earlier in the show, we heard from James Coxall. The British man inverted a pair of false legs inside a water-filled pothole, to bring attention to the state of his local roads. And as Nil mentioned to Mr. Coxall, we have a proud history -- we have a history, anyway -- of pothole stories here at As It Happens. Perhaps most famously, our coverage of an artist who took to drawing phalluses around potholes in Greater Manchester. He called himself "Wanksy". And in 2009, our former host, Carol Off, spoke with Montreal artists Claudia Ficca and Davide Luciano, who took a similarly creative -- if less crude -- approach, after a pothole destroyed the rear suspension of their car.

SOUNDCLIP

DAVIDE LUCIANO: We were driving around the city and we hit a pothole. Six hundred dollars later in car repairs, we came up with an idea to use them in a positive light. We would, we were driving around, and we thought, wouldn't it be funny if we would see a lady washing clothes out of a pothole?

CLAUDIA FICCA: Exactly. That was the first idea, and it was the first one we shot.

CAROL OFF: Davide, then what did you think of for other pictures you could take with potholes?

DL: The second photo we shot was the Olympic diver getting ready to dive into a pool. But instead of a pool, it's a pothole.

CO: [chuckle] And he's got an actual little piece of diving board. And he's exactly like the Olympics, yeah. [all chuckling]

DL: And a bathing cap to match.

CO: [chuckling] And what else?

DL: And then, we just started to, to get creative and, and say, wouldn't it be funny if someone made wine in a pothole? I have, my grandfather's got all this equipment, so it was easy to get. So, we would fill up our car and just shoot.

CF: And there was the the donut maker.

CO: The donut maker? What was that? What's that picture, Claudia?

CF: He is basically frying donuts up in a pothole. [CO chuckles] And then, next to him are other donuts that he already fried up. And he's putting powdered sugar on them. And he's dressed, like, in his Baker uniform. And this scene happens on Belanger, a beautiful pothole on Belanger Street.

DL: We also shot a scuba diver as well in his full, in full scuba gear, which was a fun shot.

CO: I have to say, that's my favourite one.

CF: Scuba diver?

CO: Because he's about to dive in, and he's got everything on, so you presume he's going to go right over his head, right?

DL: Exactly. And everybody asks how he landed? So, that was fun. I mean, it was just a perfect shot. We caught him in mid-air.

CO: [chuckling] What's your favourite?

DL: My favourite? I am, the first shot we took of Claudia washing clothes.

CO: And she has a washboard and everything. And she's --

DL: Exactly. I just love the composition. The lighting was great. And just, it just started, it started our project.

CO: And, Claudia, what's your favourite?

CF: My favourite? I know this is going to sound romantic, but my favourites is actually David making wine. [CF and CO laugh] Just because I love all the props that we were able to get for that, for that picture. And I love the fact that he's actually crushing grapes with his bare feet, and he's in motion, and I think it's the, the area was also really nice. The pothole was very big. So, I think that's my favourite.

CH: From Our Archives, that was Claudia Ficca and Davide Luciano, two artists from Montreal. They were speaking to Carol Off in 2009.

The AIH Transcript February 27, 2024

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