Note: Transcripts may contain errors. If you wish to re-use all, or part of, a transcript, please contact CBC for permission. Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print. Copyright © CBC 2021

The AIH Transcript for January 13, 2021

Hosts: Carol Off and Chris Howden

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello. I'm Carol Off.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening. I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

CH: Tonight:

CO: Out of office reply. A former GOP strategist tells us about Republican support for U.S. President Donald Trump's historic second impeachment -- support that he fully supports.

CH: Extremely full court press. A massive mafia trial that began today in Italy includes 35- defendants, 900 witnesses and 24,000 hours of intercepted conversations.

CO: A call against arms. A Michigan lawmaker is disturbed that it took the attack on the U.S. Capitol for her state to ban the open carry of guns in the legislature. She says she still doesn't feel safe.

CH: Locking down, but not throwing away the key. A Globe and Mail columnist says Ontario's premier may be talking tough about new COVID restrictions, but the exceptions make you wonder about the rules.

CO: When pigs fly. A British woman trains two piglets to clear small hurdles like tiny, plump show jumpers. And she says Molly and Polly didn't need much instruction before it was onkers away.

CH: And the passive voice. A Tokyo man rents himself out as a person who does nothing with or for you and finds himself flooded with requests and prays for the healing power of what he doesn't accomplish. As It Happens. The Wednesday Edition. Radio that believes nothing is sacred.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Impeachment: Former Republican

Impeachment: Former Republican

Guest: Steve Schmidt

CH: Donald Trump is now the only president in United States history to be impeached twice. This afternoon, the Democrat-led House of Representatives voted in favour of an article of impeachment that accused Mr. Trump of incitement of insurrection. The proceedings have revealed fractures in the president's party in his final days in office. Ten Republican representatives also voted in favour of impeachment, including the number three House Republican Liz Cheney. Steve Schmidt is one of the founders of the Lincoln Project and a longtime GOP strategist who left the party during the Trump presidency.

CO: Mr. Schmidt, no House Republicans voted in favour of impeachment last time. What does it say to you that there were 10 who support impeachment today?

STEVE SCHMIDT: Well, it says that. The Republican Party has broken into two factions, an autocratic faction, which is the Trump faction which incited insurrection, incited violence at the United States capital, which fell last week to Trump's thugs. And it shows that there is a bipartisan consensus that wants accountability for the criminal president of the United States and the unfathomable, unprecedented breach of his oath of office.

CO: A number of the speeches that people gave today, some of them clearly still support Mr. Trump and his rhetoric and his claims. But numbers of others said that they condemned him for what they did or criticised him, but they felt that this wasn't the way to go, that it was time to seek a higher ground, I think someone said to tone down the rhetoric. Should they be regarded differently amongst the Republicans?

SS: They should not be regarded differently. And the offer they're making is extremely disingenuous. "Tone down the rhetoric" after four years of complicit silence, listening to Donald Trump stoke a cold civil war that culminated in violent desecration of the floor of the House of Representatives, the floor of the United States Senate, Confederate flags being carried through the Rotunda, the United States Capitol, the Citadel of freedom, the people's house? At the end of the day, what they offer is appeasement to all of us who believe in American democracy. What they offer is surrender to the autocratic movement that Trump has birthed in the United States. And at the end of the day, we saw last week seven United States senators and 147 members of Congress rise in the name of a conspiracy theory that was factually rejected on 60 different occasions in federal courts seeking to disenfranchise tens of millions of Black voters to install the loser of the presidential election as the winner, which would have brought about the downfall of the American republic in its 244th year of independence.

CO: Do you think that the Republicans who voted against impeachment today and those who were voting last week, do you think that they actually believe that -- they actually support him -- or are they afraid of him, afraid of his influence and power?

SS: Well, they've sat on the record. You have dozens of members of Congress who are apparently saying they wish they could vote for impeachment if they feel that their families will be murdered by Trump supporters. Now, of course, if they do feel that and they're unable to fulfil their oath, they should resign their offices so somebody can discharge the constitutional duties that they swore to uphold. The bottom line is this, you saw an incitement to violence by the president of the United States. And when you look at autocratic movements, a couple things have to come together. You have the charismatic leader, you have the masses. Those people that marched on the Capitol last week, these people were wearing costumes and red hats, but they're no different than the black shirts and the brown shirts in Germany and Italy espousing fascism and Nazism 100 years ago. They're society's losers. They're are disaffected. They're people who are marginalised and aggrieved and thinks that somebody owes them something. But that's not enough to spark an autocratic movement. It needs the cynicism of the elites -- the Josh Hawleys, the Ted Cruzs, the Stanford University graduates, the Harvard graduates. And that's not enough, it needs the propagandists. But when you have all of that come together, you're able to birth an autocratic movement and that's what we've seen come to life.

CO: But there are a sizable number, millions of people in your country, who support those people who were on Capitol Hill on last Wednesday. So why is that?

SS: Well, obviously, a majority of the country does not support American autocracy -- a majority of the country decisively voted for Joe Biden. But we have a problem in the country because the president of the United States has been faithless to American democracy. And we see this all over the world. Canada is not immune to this. We see this in Europe. We see Democratic rescission everywhere we look. It's a dangerous movement. So we're going to be in a fight in America for the next 25 or 30 years where the pro-democracy side can never again lose a national election to the autocracy side, or it will be the last election we ever have in America.

CO: You said at the beginning that there was a split, a clear schism in the Republican Party, what we saw today. So what happens? Do you see the party does split apart? Is that the future?

SS: Yeah. Look, the autocrat will not be able to sit next to the small-d Democrats inside the Republican conference. 147 people rose to throw out the results of an election that would have brought about the downfall of the country, that's not a reconcilable position. You have a conservative movement led by Liz Cheney and an autocratic faction led by Kevin McCarthy. And one of the things that you're seeing is this movement by corporate America to fundamentally defund the autocratic faction of the Republican Party by refusing to give contributions ever again to any candidate, to any member, to any committee controlled by any member who rose to strike down American democracy, who rose to disenfranchised millions of Black voters, who rose in defence of conspiracy theories, who lied to the country, embraced the big lie and incited insanity until it spilt over into violence in the capital of the United States fell.

CO: Mr. Schmidt, we will leave it there. Thank you for speaking with us.

SS: Thank you.

CH: That was Steve Schmidt, a former Republican strategist, turned Democrat and a co-founder of the Lincoln Project.

[Music]

Ontario lockdown rules

Guest: Robyn Urback

CH: Doug Ford is talking tough. Yesterday, Ontario's premier announced a second COVID state of emergency for the province. And he ordered people to stay at home. But all those tough words lost some of their punch when Ontarians got a closer look at the new restrictions. On one hand, the province says people must only leave their homes for essential purposes -- on the other hand, the new rules still allow outdoor gatherings of up to five people, and even some stores selling non-essential items will remain open. Here's Premier Ford responding to those concerns today.

DOUG FORD: You know, I hear there's a little bit of confusion on the order and everything. There is no confusion. I hear some elected officials, local ones and other ones "Oh, it's confusing." Folks, there is no confusion. It is very simple: stay home. Stay home -- that's it. If you're questioning should I go out? You've got the answer: stay home, rester a la maison. That's simple. And it's very very simple. Stay home. Stay home. I don't know what more I can describe. And for anyone who says or elected officials, you're being responsible, be responsible. The message is simple: stay home.

CH: Ontario Premier Doug Ford speaking today. Robyn Urback is a columnist with the Globe and Mail. We reached her in Toronto.

CO: Robyn, we just heard the premier of Ontario say that he has been crystal clear. How crystal is that clarity in your view?

ROBYN URBACK: Yeah, it's about as crystal as mud, I would say. The directives that have come from the province are inherently contradictory. So we're being told to stay home, only go out for essential reasons. But within the announcement that the province made about the stay-at-home order, it was also noted that non-essential retail will be open, albeit for reduced hours, and that gatherings outside are still permitted. So on the one hand, we're only supposed to go out for essential reasons. And on the other hand, there are all sorts of non-essential activities available to anyone who wants to make use of that.

CO: So let's unpack a bit of that. So you should only go out for essential goods, but when you do go out for non-essential goods, do them between certain hours, right?

RU: Right. That's basically the issue. And part of the problem is, too, is that there hasn't been a definition, really, of what constitutes 'essential.' I think we all know the obvious ones: I need to go out to the pharmacy, I need to get some groceries, I'm an essential worker, I need to to go out and work. But maybe you have little kids, and part of what's keeping your sanity is that you need to go out and buy a toy to keep them occupied so that you can get your work done. Is that essential? Is that not essential? We don't know. The government has not provided any clarity whatsoever as to those sort of murky middle issues.

CO: And so the government of Ontario said, this is a quote, "It cannot determine what is essential for every person in this province, each with their own unique circumstances and regional considerations." Which is like what you've just said. So basically, in case you do need to get that toy for a child to keep him or her quiet, the big box stores stay open?

RU: They do. They are allowed to remain open. I think part of the problem I think we've heard actually from law enforcement as well as they are unclear as to how they are to enforce something like this, because if the idea of an essential outing, essential goods are discretionary and you're a police officer ostensibly tasked with making sure that people are only out for those necessary, essential reasons, how are you to determine really what is acceptable and what is not?

CO: Another contradiction you mentioned at the beginning is at the same time don't go out, don't meet with anyone outside of your household, but when you do go meet people, don't do it in larger groups than five. So can you unpack that for us?

RU: [Chuckles] It's another contradiction that I don't think has been addressed really in any sort of coherent way. The government did an attempt in issuing some frequently asked questions and responses earlier this morning, saying while some people may want to gather as a way to maintain their mental health, and certainly we can understand that, but the order is also not to go out unless you absolutely need to. So it's a bit of mixed messaging in that sense. If you want to go out, say, and sit by a bonfire with a couple of friends and socialise as much as you can while maintaining that physical distance that seems to be permitted under these regulations. But again, it's really tough to decipher what is and what is not going to be allowed when the stay at home order comes into effect.

CO: And I understand that if you have a small wedding, you can still have that.

RU: Yeah, that seems like the biggest contradiction in all of this. There is an exemption to these gathering limits that allow for indoor ceremonies, for weddings and other religious services, up to 10 people. I think a lot of people might actually find that surprising amid all of these restrictions. And after we got this really dire modelling projections earlier in the week about our ICUs potentially being overwhelmed by February, we're still allowing religious ceremonies and weddings to happen indoors, even though we know and we've seen over the past couple of months that these sorts of activities can really spread the virus, especially when we're talking about these new more contagious strains of virus coming from the U.K. and elsewhere. It seems like a really glaring oversight in this policy that's being put forth by the government. There are so many things that we cannot do anymore. We can't go into a retail store. We can't gather in bubbles. We can't see our family. And yet if we want to have a wedding, we're allowed to bring in nearly a dozen people indoors to celebrate that. So I think that's something that's going to have to be cleared up fairly quickly or else it's going to seem like an even bigger contradiction than some of the other orders we've had to try to interpret so far.

CO: And so you can't see your family, you can't be with them -- yet you can go to a big box store.

RU: Exactly. And gather with how many other people? I mean, the province has said that they're going to step up surveillance and monitoring to make sure that these stores are maintaining physical distance, saying that they're capping the number of people that can be in the store to make sure that staff in back rooms, which we know can be an issue, that the virus is actually spreading amongst staff in those common areas. But again, it's just an issue that seems, if nothing else, completely inequitable when looking at small businesses in the province, they're only allowed to do curb-side service, whereas these big box stores, I don't know about you, but I've seen passing by them at all hours of the day, there are these massive, massive line-ups for people to go in to do their in-store shopping.

CO: All right. Clear as mud. Thank you Robyn. [Chuckles]

RU: Thank you.

CH: Robyn Urback is a columnist with the Globe and Mail. She's in Toronto.

[Music]

UK show jumping pigs

Guest: Catherine, Annabel, & Grace Claypole

CH: Like any show-jumping event, the 2021 POYS was a regal, dignified affair and its competitors sleek and graceful.

CATHERINE CLAYPOLE: So here we have Grace and Annabel Claypole with their two Berkshire piglets, Molly and Polly. Now Molly and Polly are only four months old. Oh look at this. What a great start. First pig of the year show -- and they are going great guns. Over the second fence. It's a 30 centimetre course. Now, these girls make it look easy, but trust me, it is pure pig-manship that is getting these piglets over these jumps so well and with such skill.

CH: As you've guessed, those were not horses jumping. That was Catherine Claypole commentating the first pig of the year show, which took place in her backyard. And the only contestants were Molly and Polly the piglets. Ms. Claypole and her daughters, Grace and Annabel, recently taught Molly and Polly how to show-jump. We reached Catherine, Grace, and Annabel in Kettering, England.

CO: Catherine, I just love the sound of that, it is very professional, especially the pure "pig-manship." [Laughs] Describe what our listeners did not see in this Pig of the Years show that you put on?

CATHERINE CLAYPOLE: So we had the two piglets, Molly and Polly, jumping over a sequence of show jumps around our field on our farm in Northamptonshire. And my two girls, Annabel and Grace, Annabel is seven and Grace's nine, were running guiding the pigs over these jump, shall we say, with a bucket of food, because pigs do tend to be quite food motivated.

CO: And how did they do?

CATHERINE CLAYPOLE: Well, they did extremely well. And so because they were doing so well, I decided to provide a little bit of a voiceover, which obviously you can hear in the clip and made it the POYS 2021 show, so Piglets of the Year show and it went from that. [Chuckles]

CO: Very dignified affair. How did you come up with the idea to teach these two piglets how to show jump?

CATHERINE CLAYPOLE: Well, they when we first got them, they took a while, they took a few days to settle in, obviously. But it soon became very clear to me that they're just very clever. And I've done a lot of dog training in my time. These piglets just reminded me of border collies because of their sort of almost intuition with how they respond to you when you're giving them these guidance over things or whatever it might be. And so it just sort of went from there. And then I was in the field one day and the jumps were there because we have horses. And I thought, okay, we'll see if the pigs will go over them. And they did with food motivation because they are very motivated by food. And then I said to the girls, come on, come into the field, let's see, you know, this is what they can do. And so then I got them doing it. And then the day I filmed that, it was just, you know, the beginning of our latest lockdown down. And my parents are very elderly, they don't live near us and they're very down. And I thought, okay, let's film this to cheer them up. And then I just put various clips together and did the voiceover, and it did make their day. [Chuckles].

CO: Well you cheered all of us up, not just your parents. It really is quite lovely.

CATHERINE CLAYPOLE: Aww. Well, that is amazing. I'm very pleased. And I've had people from all over the place sort of contacting me saying, you know, I'm a nurse and my patient was watching this in their hospital bed, and this made them smile. And you made my day. And, you know, it's been fantastic. And that was what it was all about, really.

CO: And your daughters are there with you, are they?

CATHERINE CLAYPOLE: They are. They are. Yes.

CO: So Annabel is seven.

CATHERINE CLAYPOLE: Annabel is seven. Yeah.

CO: Is she there?

CATHERINE CLAYPOLE: So the piglets were bought for Annabel for her seventh birthday, which was during our second national lockdown. And obviously she couldn't have any friends or have a party, so we thought we'd surprise her with some piglets.

CO: Annabel, hi.

ANNABEL CLAYPOLE: Hi.

CO: [Laughs] What was it like to get those piglets for your birthday?

ANNABEL CLAYPOLE: Um, it was very surprising. I thought I was going to get a puppy instead. [Laughter]

CO: And how much fun has it been to teach them how to jump?

ANNABEL CLAYPOLE: It has been very fun.

CO: You're jumping with them. How much fun was that the go jumping with your piglets?

ANNABEL CLAYPOLE: Very very fun. [Laughter]

CO: Is your sister there? Is Grace there?

ANNABEL CLAYPOLE: Yeah.

GRACE CLAYPOLE: Yeah, I'm here.

CO: Hi Grace. It's Carol.

GRACE CLAYPOLE: Hi.

CO: Hi. Now your mum, she said that you both make it look so easy to have the piglets jump. How difficult was it to get Molly and Polly to listen to you?

GRACE CLAYPOLE: I think it's pretty hard because they're just messing around a lot of the time but you probably get used to them.

CO: [Laughter] So do you think that they would do that jumping if you didn't offer them food, do you think they'd jump?

GRACE CLAYPOLE: Probably not. [Laughs].

CO: The food really helps, doesn't it?

GRACE CLAYPOLE: Yeah. [Chuckles]

CO: Do you think you'll do more jumping with them or teach them more tricks?

GRACE CLAYPOLE: Yeah.

CO: What would you like to teach Molly and Polly to do?

GRACE CLAYPOLE: Mummy says herd the sheep.

CO: Herd the sheep. [Laughs] Like a border collie.

GRACE CLAYPOLE: Yeah.

CO: Do you think that they'll listen to you? Do you think they'll be able to do that job?

GRACE CLAYPOLE: Yeah, they are very clever.

CO: Can I speak to your mummy again?

GRACE CLAYPOLE: Yeah.

CATHERINE CLAYPOLE: [Chuckles] Hi.

CO: Hi Catherine.

CATHERINE CLAYPOLE: Oh hang on Annabel wants to say something now.

ANNABEL CLAYPOLE: I was saying, daddy said apparently pigs can swim. So we are going to teach them how to swim in the pond some day. [Laughter]

CO: I think that's a great idea. [Laughs]

CATHERINE CLAYPOLE: Okay, so I'm back. [Chuckles]

CO: [Chuckles] Okay You better make sure they can swim before you throw them in the pond, I would say.

CATHERINE CLAYPOLE: Yes. [Chuckles]

CO: So do you think that Molly and Polly can learn the tricks without the food, Catherine?

CATHERINE CLAYPOLE: Yes, they absolutely can. I would say definitely now they would go over probably three or four jumps and continue to the next one without the food because they know it's going to come at the end. So, yes, definitely.

CO: They are so much fun to watch and we're going to put the video up so others can see it and enjoy it as much as we did. And thanks for speaking with us Catherine.

CATHERINE CLAYPOLE: Pleasure. Absolute pleasure. Thank you so much.

CO: And thanks to Annabel and Grace as well.

CATHERINE CLAYPOLE: You're very welcome. I will pass that on. Thank you.

CH: Catherine Claypole and her daughters, Grace and Annabel, taught their piglets to show jump. We reached them in Kettering, England. And we have tweeted a video of Molly and Polly jumping: @CBCAsItHappens.

[Music]

Shoji Morimoto

CH: Sometimes the very best thing to do is nothing at all. And there is nothing Tokyo man Shoji Morimoto wouldn't do for his clients. Sorry I misread that. There's nothing Shoji Morimoto wouldn't not do for his clients. Mr. Morimoto bills himself as a person you can rent who does nothing, but he's being modest. He will eat or drink or play video games and accompany you to places, maybe even give some simple feedback. But other than that, nothing. Mostly, he commits to the simple yet powerful act of just being there, quietly, saying little. Because, "I myself don't like to be cheered on by others. When someone is trying to do something, I think the best thing to do is to help lower the bar for them by staying at their side." His clients seem to agree that less from him is more. Thanks to his can-do nothing attitude, business has blossomed. And while you can't put a price on nothing Mr. Morimoto has found, you also can't not put a price on nothing. He first offered his services for free, but clients now pony up the equivalent of 122 Canadian dollars for the pleasure of his barely perceptible presence. And now Shoji Morimoto finds himself with more requests to do nothing than he knows what to not do with -- something he will almost certainly do nothing about.

[Music]

Part 2: Michigan open carry

Michigan open carry

Guest: Sarah Anthony

CH: As of this week, you can no longer walk into Michigan's Capitol building with an AR-15 strapped to your back or a pistol on your hip. In response to the storming of the U.S. Capitol in Washington, the state has banned the open carrying of firearms in the legislative building. Lawmakers have been pushing for the ban since April, when armed protesters entered the statehouse. Some of the same people who took guns into that capital have also been accused in a plot to kidnap the state's governor, Gretchen Whitmer. Sarah Anthony is a Democratic state representative in Michigan. We reached her in Lansing.

CO: Representative Anthony, how much safer do you feel in the Michigan Capitol building today, knowing that people cannot walk in openly carrying guns?

SARAH ANTHONY: You know, I will say, you know, today was our opening day, and this week the Michigan Capitol Commission banned open carry. But I always say whether a weapon is concealed in a coat or a bag or it's openly carried in someone's hand is still a deadly weapon.

CO: So what has now been banned and what is still being admitted?

SA: So, you know, firearms are still allowed in the building. They just need to be hidden or concealed.

CO: Good heavens. Well, how do you feel about that?

SA: You know, it doesn't make me feel much safer. In fact, you know, in many ways I'd rather see the firearms that are present in the building. You know, we have experience in that building -- on April 30th, an angry mob storm our building with the express purpose of inciting fear and intimidating us. And many of those folks were very heavily armed. But if a similar group of folks came in that were heavily armed and we just couldn't see the firearms, I don't know if I'd feel much safer.

CO: Just to go back to that day in April, the end of April. You were there and there were men who came into the gallery, came just above where you were sitting with their rifles, with their ammunition and yelling at the likes of you. What has stayed with you about that day?

SA: There's a few things. You know, first, I'll never forget walking into the building and where I saw not just, you know, heavily armed men and women, but also Confederate flags and nooses and other signs that scream hatred, particularly towards African-Americans and people of colour. But, you know, also, I just will never forget how much hatred was really being spread that day. You know, no one can tell me that when you bring in both large firearms into the building and you're yelling and screaming, not just at legislators but law enforcement, that you're not there with the express purpose of trying to intimidate and incite a riot. And so I'll never forget at our workplace -- the will of the people -- really looked like a battleground.

CO: And you're an African-American.

SA: Yes, I am an African-American woman from the state of Michigan.

CO: So now that was in April. I know you and others have been trying ever since then to try and get some control over the weapons allowed into the building. What does it say to you that it took last Wednesday, the storming of the Capitol in Washington, that extraordinary scene -- is the timing just a coincidence or is it because of that spectacle that you were able to get this put through?

SA: You know, it is frustrating. You know, the day after that April 30th protest, I sent a letter to the Capitol commission asking them to ban all firearms. And I have lifted my voice just about every day to that commission, to anyone who will listen, that this time in our nation's history requires us to take every measure to keep people safe. And that means, you know, banning firearms in that building is just one good step. But despite those efforts, despite me testifying before the commission and introducing and supporting legislation to ban firearms -- today, even on the House floor, I introduced a resolution around domestic terrorism. Despite all of those efforts, it ultimately took bloodshed at our U.S. Capitol in order to finally move the needle a little on this issue.

CO: Others in the Michigan legislature say that they have bullet-proof vests, they have some armour, they have a plan. They are conscious all the time about the possibility that they may have to fight for their lives. Are you in that same position? Have you done the same thing?

SA: You know, I've definitely taken my personal security seriously. And I know that there are other members who, you're right, have procured bullet-proof vests and have really taken seriously or what their exit strategy would be in case there's an emergency. But ultimately, I think by and large, legislators want to focus on what matters right now, which is COVID-19 response, getting our economy back on track, doing everything we can to help families and our communities. People don't want to be distracted by thinking about their own personal safety and what's happening in the Capitol. They want to be focussed on the job that, you know, thousands of people sent them to the Capitol to do.

CO: We know that in the past day or so that people in Congress, in Washington, have admitted or been discovered to have weapons -- they have concealed carry. The Republicans, they say that's their right to do that, to carry them right into the House floor. Do you worry that this idea that somehow this is okay has a lot of support from people out there?

SA: I do believe in the Second Amendment, it is a sacred right. But I do believe in, you know, responsible commonsense reforms. And there are some areas in our states and nation and that we can think really critically about why we need the presence of firearms. And I just think to all of us, whether we're lawmakers or community leaders, to really think about what the presence of guns does to environments and how we can ensure the safety of individuals in these workplaces.

CO: We will leave it there. Representative Anthony I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

SA: Thank you for the time. Please stay safe.

CH: Sarah Anthony is a Michigan Democratic state representative. We reached her in Lansing, Michigan.

[Music]

Mafia trial

Guest: Antonio Nicaso

CH: A mafia trial beginning today involves so many defendants that an Italian city had to build a special courtroom just to accommodate everyone. The Calabrian city of Lamezia Terme converted a call centre into a high security 1000 capacity courtroom with cages. There are 350 defendants, all with connections to the Ndrangheta crime syndicate. More than 900 witnesses are set to testify against them. And prosecutors have more than 24,000 hours of intercepted conversations to back up their case about crimes from money laundering to abuse of office to murder. Antonio Nicasio is an internationally renowned expert on the Italian mafia, but especially the Ndrangheta. We reached him in Toronto.

CO: Antonio, as you know, there are 350 defendants for this one trial -- just an extraordinary number. What does that tell us about how deeply rooted this organisation is in Calabria?

ANTONIO NICASO: It's an important trial because it targets one of the most powerful group of families within the Ndrangheta, one of the world's most powerful, least known mafia group. Of course, it's a trial with many people on stand -- and it does show the fact that the Ndrangheta is deeply rooted in Calabria, but with an extensive reach.

CO: When you look at the roster of those who are going to be put on trial, are we talking about the senior leadership? Are these are significant players in Ndrangheta?

AN: Yes, they are senior leaders of the Mancuso clan. But the people who stand trial are not just members of the Ndrangheta, but also a former senator, a police chief, lawyers, local politician, businessmen. And I think this trial showed the ability of the Ndrangheta to connect the underworld to the upperworld professionals, lawyers, politicians, law enforcement. That's what makes this organisation different.

CO: And at the heart of this prosecution, this Ndrangheta and and this family, what kinds of international operations were they principally operating?

AN: The Ndrangheta are believed to control the supply of the huge amounts of cocaine entering Europe from South America and elsewhere.

CO: But this is not just one massive drug bust, is it? I mean, some of the charges involve murder and attempted murder, do they not?

AN: Exactly. It's more about the Mafia association. It's more about the network, the criminal network. The fact that they were able to avoid investigation, that they were able to corrupt the local politician. And that's what the trial is all about, more than a shipment of cocaine or other crime, because the greatest problem in understanding organised crime is not with the word crime, but with the word organised. And this is what many people are not able to understand. It's the organisation, not only violent people, but organisation that includes people that are well regarded in the society, people that we consider a member of the so-called upper class.

CO: But when you describe them as their strength is being organised, their strength is also family loyalty -- when you talk about the Mancuso clan. But there are members of the family, senior members, who are actually key witnesses in this trial. Is that not the case?

AN: Exactly. That is one of the most important aspects of the trial. The family is the keystone for the success of the Ndrangheta. Fathers, sons, brothers and cousins control village or city. And because of the structure based on family, in the past it was very difficult to identify the informants because when someone decides to betray the organisation it is betraying its own blood. This is one of the first two trials that include a key witness who is the son of a senior member of the organisation.

CO: But I mean, those senior people have been offered protection in order to testify. But there are more than 900 witnesses that are expected to testify. We know that notoriously the people who try and speak out or go to these trials or testify -- can be serious consequences for them. So how were the authorities able to persuade so many people to speak out against the family?

AN: I think it has to do with the charisma of the chief prosecutor, Nicola Gratteri. Many people love him, and the name of the operation is a 'Rinascita' -- rebuild or rebirth. Many people like this idea to turn the page, and having 900 people is a clear signal that the people who live in Calabria do not like to continue dealing with the Ndrangheta and the violence of the Ndrangheta. And so I think it's a great step in the right direction, but it has to do with the credibility of the institution and the credibility of this man who is the chief prosecutor and has spend the entire life on police escort -- the mafia, the Ndrangheta, tried to kill him several times. He is under police escort since 1989.

CO: I wonder because you said people just want this to end -- we saw during this COVID crisis that the Mafia had infiltrated, they were part of the hospital they could siphon off the supplies, they were making money from government funding for the hospital while people were dying all over the place in Italy. Was that kind of a turning point for a lot of people that this just had to end?

AN: Crisis always represented an opportunity for criminals. They can purchase companies. They can then feed themselves in the health system. And you're absolutely right. But this has to do with the political classes that are fighting instead of the governing in this moment. Of course, Italy needs political will in the fight against organised crime. But the world needs a political will because the goal of this organisation is to invest money abroad, not in Calabria. In Calabria the wealth of those people, the money are reaching the international markets, Canada, Australia and the United States everywhere, Germany, England. So it's a global issue, it's a global problem.

CO: It's also an illness like a cancer that's around the world, isn't it?

AN: Correct. I think if you use the perfect metaphor to describe.

CO: Antonio, I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

AN: My pleasure Carol.

CH: Antonio Nicaso is an expert on the Ndrangheta crime syndicate. He teaches about organised crime at Queen's University. We reached him in Toronto.

[Music]

1-887-2BE-CALM

CH: It's the middle of winter, that fleeting sense of relief that came with ripping our 2020 calendars up and burning them is long gone. And like most sequels, 2021 hasn't exactly lived up to the hype. I cannot stress enough that we are all stressed enough. At this point, I'm willing to try anything that gives me a chance to pause [breathes in] and find some calm, even if that means calling a 1-800 number. I admit that might sound a bit weird or even dystopian, but the word on the Zoom circles I frequent is that Victoria, B.C. artist and resident, Kathryn Calder just created a free hotline that offers callers a selection of soothing sounds. So if you'll indulge me for a minute as I indulge. Let me find the number here. Here it is. [Dialing] 1-877-2BE-CALM. [Phone ringing]

KATHRYN CALDER: [Voice message plays] Hello, you have reached 1-877-2BE-CALM we are happy you called us today. We'd like to acknowledge that here in the city of Victoria we live, work and play on the homelands of the Lekwungen. My name is Kathryn Calder. I'm humbled to have grown up here and continue to live here in this beautiful place surrounded by the ocean and forests.

CH: Okay. Hi Kathryn.

KATHRYN CALDER: Press 1 for B.C. nature sounds. Press 2 for Indigenous stories and songs. Press 3 for poetry. Press 4 for Francophone poetry [also repeats message in French]. Press 5 for contemporary music. Press 6 for instrumental music. Press 7 for children laughing. Press 8 for a meditation. Press 9 for ambient music.

CH: Okay. I'm so stressed I forgot what all those...

VOICE: Sorry we did not receive your response.

CH: Okay! Give me a second.

KATHRYN CALDER: [Message repeats] Hello. You have reached 1-877-2BE-CALM....

CH: I'll try 7.

KATHRYN CALDER: Welcome to children's laughter. Often the sound of children laughing can have a contagious effect. We hope you enjoy this compilation of children laughing, featuring Owen, Arthur, Davey, Emmy, Ruby, Owen, August, and Owen discovering the whoopee cushion for the first time. [Children laughter plays]

CH: Let's try -- I want to hear the B.C. nature sounds. Try 1.

KATHRYN CALDER: Welcome to B.C. Nature Sounds. [Nature sounds play]

CH: Yeah, that's yeah...very soothing. That is great, but one of those whales is kind of stressing me out. Can we hear the ambient music?

KATHRYN CALDER: Welcome to ambient music.

CH: [Ambient music plays] Okay. Okay. This is working. You're listening to As It Happens on CBC Radio -- oops, sorry, force of habit. Well, this is...kind of stepped out of time there for a second. Okay that's a piece by Matthew Cardinal, just one of the soothing sounds you'll find on Kathryn Calder's free hotline. Just dial 1-877-2BE-CALM. Again, that's 1-877-2BE-CALM. Or go to victoria.ca/becalm.

[Music]

Matt Hancock

MATT HANCOCK: I want to see good high quality food.

CH: That was Matt Hancock on Good Morning Britain today. As the UK's health secretary, Mr. Hancock knew he would be asked about the ongoing controversy over free school meals. And yet this happened.

MATT HANCOCK: Well, because the reason I'm glad now is because we've been able to sort that out and put it in place.

CH: That was Matt Hancock struggling to answer a question he really should have known was coming. If you're so glad about these food packages going out, why did you vote against them? Let me go back a bit. This week, there's been a lot of criticism about the meagre contents of the UK's free meal parcels, which are nowhere near what the government promised. The meals only went out at all because of the public advocacy of soccer player Marcus Rashford. Since the pandemic began, the Manchester United star has been fighting to ensure families who rely on free meals while in school have had enough to eat now that the kids are not in school. For months, the government resisted. In October, it voted against extending the meals over the holidays. Then finally, Boris Johnson caved and called Marcus Rashford to say the meals would go out after all. But this week, Mr. Rashford is publicly criticising the food packages themselves, saying they're not enough for families to live on. So back to Health Secretary Matt Hancock. He knew this was a scandal. He also knew he had voted against extending free school meals to families. So he'd really have to thread the needle in this interview. Instead, he accidentally stabbed himself with the needle, and the thread totally unspoiled, and then he tripped over it.

MATT HANCOCK: I want to see good high quality food. I'm really glad that we're able to send out food for those who receive free school meals when schools are in. And I'm really glad that we're able to do that with schools...

PIERS MORGAN: If you're that glad -- can I just ask you a difficult question? Why did you vote against it?

MATT HANCOCK: Well, I'm really glad we were able to put it into place.

PIERS MORGAN: Yeah but if you're that glad about it being able to put it into place, again, why did you as health secretary vote against this?

MATT HANCOCK: Well, because the reason I'm glad now is because we've been able to sort that out and put it in place now.

PIERS MORGAN: Let's be honest, you got shamed into it by a football player, a young football player with a conscience who managed to break the conscience of you and the government. Do you regret now, given how glad you are that it's now happening, do you regret voting against it?

MATT HANCOCK: Well, of course, I'm pleased that we're making sure...

PIERS MORGAN: That wasn't the question. I asked if you regret it. But hang on, it's a very important question because you wouldn't have done it without Marcus Rashford campaigning. My question for you is, given how glad you now are that it is happening, do you regret voting against it? It is a yes or no?

MATT HANCOCK: Well, as I say, I'm really glad that it's happened...

PIERS MORGAN: But do you regret voting against it?

MATT HANCOCK: Well, I'll put it this way, in the first lockdown, we took this action and now, as you say...

PIERS MORGAN: You have to say yes or no, whether you regret it -- you either regret it or you don't.

MATT HANCOCK: Well, I'm really glad that the situation has been resolved.

PIERS MORGAN: So you regret voting against it?

MATT HANCOCK: I'm really glad it's been resolved and we've sorted it out and I'm going to use my own words to describe my feelings on this one.

PIERS MORGAN: So you won't answer the question?

MATT HANCOCK: Well, I'm answering the question and I'm really glad that we...

PIERS MORGAN: Let's just hope we don't have to realise, we have to again this week on Marcus Rashford to once again expose the inequity of this system because these kids are in lockdown, they're suffering, they're hungry, and they need support and proper support from you as health secretary and the government.

CH: British Health Secretary Matt Hancock being grilled by Piers Morgan and Susanna Reid on Good Morning Britain today.

[Music]

Update: Lisa Montgomery

CH: Lisa Montgomery's reprieve was brief. In the early hours of this morning, Ms. Montgomery was put to death. Just last night we told you about a court order to stay her execution. A higher court overturned that decision yesterday, and she was executed by lethal injection shortly after midnight. Her lawyers had hoped for clemency despite her conviction for the murder of a young woman who was eight months pregnant. They argued the abuse Ms. Montgomery suffered as a child made her mentally incompetent for execution. Her death is the 11th execution since the Trump administration resumed federal capital punishment in July. She is the first woman to be put to death by the U.S. federal government in almost 70 years.

[Music]

Part 3: Bison rangers wanted to oversee U.K. herd — no bison experience necessary

German Catholic sex abuse

Guest: Joachim Frank

CH: Last week, the Archdiocese of Cologne tried to have a press conference to discuss an unpublished child abuse report. The report looked into decades of alleged sexual abuse of young people by clerics and the alleged cover up by the Archdiocese of Common. But reporters missed most of that press conference because they walked out in protest. They'd been asked to sign confidentiality agreements requiring them to keep silent on the contents of the report. Joachim Frank is one of the journalists who refused to sign the confidentiality agreement. He's the chief correspondent of the Koelner Stadt-Anzeiger newspaper. We reached him in Cologne.

CO: Joachim, have you ever been asked for your absolute silence at a press conference before?

JOACHIM FRANK: Not in this way that you should sign a declaration of confidentiality, which was laid out by lawyers. I've never done something like that.

CO: And so you had gone to this press conference with other journalists expecting to learn what?

JF: To learn something about the legal opinion of a Munich law firm about the sexual abuse in the Archdiocese of Cologne, which Cardinal Woelki, the archbishop of Cologne, has maintained in 2018. He said that he wants to know everything about sexual abuse and the structures behind it, and he wants to clear up the scandal. And therefore, lawyers of Munich should do this report, this legal opinion, and it should have been published in March. But then he put it under lock and key, the cardinal, because of some, let's say, confusion.

CO: Okay before we get to the confusion. So you went there expecting to learn the details of this report about child abuse in the Catholic Church. And you said, yes, we have the report, but if you can't see it unless you agree not to report on it, is that right?

JF: Partly. There are details in this report, which we were expected not to tell about or not to report and not to write about. And there were details of critique which another lawyer from Frankfurt had put on this Munich report and this part of the matter we should report.

CO: Right. So what could you not report? What would be the part that you'd have to exclude from your reporting?

JF: The names of the priests who were sexual abusers, names of officials of the diocese who covered up the whole thing, how the whole thing happened, the individual crimes which have happened and the consequences which the Munich law firm gave to the archdiocese neither. So the results we shouldn't report either.

CO: What did you and the other reporters do?

JF: We argued why we won't sign this declaration, and we asked the press officials of the archdiocese to talk to their lawyers whether they could take away this declaration and whether we could come along with the normal procedures. There are, of course, of procedures for these types of talks and events. But if you should sign such a declaration, you can be held legally responsible for what you do.

CO: Did anyone agree to it? Did anyone signed the confidentiality agreement?

JF: No.

CO: Why do you believe the Archdiocese of Cologne is suppressing this report?

JF: I think it's a mixture -- a mixture of reasons. The Archdiocese of Cologne is very powerful. There are many officials who are quite high ranking positions in other dioceses, and they are all in some way involved in this covering up and in the scandal. And we don't know yet which way they are involved. And this report should open, should clarify the whole thing.

CO: I guess the other player, the other part of this story has to be the victims of these priests. And we know from our country, of every other country how they suffer not just from what happened, but from learning the degree to which these things are suppressed. So what's been the reaction amongst those people who were boys at the time of these abuses? How are they responding to this?

JF: This is actually the scandal in the scandal because the archdiocese told the public and told the press that it was the will of the victims that the first report should not be published because of its failures or its deficiencies. But then the victim said that there was a meeting with two professors of law from Frankfurt and from Cologne, who told them for two hours how bad this first report is. And you can imagine a victim told by lawyers that the report is bad after two hours, you'd believe everything. But afterwards, they recognised that the archdiocese had planned this for months. And some of the victims have said or said afterwards, that this another abuse by the archdiocese by telling it's the will of the victims not to publish.

CO: And so it's an abuse of power once again. And so do you think there's any possibility -- I mean, did you suspect someone might leak this or get hold of this report by other means?

JF: We will see. Normally these attempts to get something or to keep something secret like that, normally, it doesn't work. Things that are expected to be kept in secret become public. But the cardinal promised or said or offered to the victims and to journalists to have a look at the whole Munich report after a second one is ready. And this is expected to be in March. And then we have two reports and maybe we can compare what is in them, because we have more than 200 cases of sexual abuse in the archdiocese. And the second report should contain all of them. The first one has 15 examples, 15 special cases, but the second one should contain all of them. And then we'll see, of course.

CO: All right. The truth will come out, you're saying. And we'll be watching for that. Joachim I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

JF: Thank you very much.

CO: Good night.

JF: Good night.

CH: Joachim Frank is one of the journalists who refused to sign a confidentiality agreement about a report into child sex abuse in the Archdiocese of Cologne. He's the chief correspondent of the Koelner Stadt-Anzeiger newspaper. We reached him in Cologne.

[Music]

Sheldon Adelson

CH: American casino magnate Sheldon Adelson was best known for being very very wealthy -- and for how he chose and chose not to distribute that wealth. Mr. Adelson died on Monday. He was 87 years old. Throughout his life, he was a prolific donor to Republican campaigns and right-wing political causes. In recent years, he made massive contributions to U.S. President Donald Trump's 2016 and 2020 election campaigns. And after the 2016 election, he gave a legal defence fund set up to fight special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation into Russian election interference, its single largest donation. Those contributions, combined with his 30-plus billion dollar fortune, made Sheldon Adelson monumentally unpopular amongst progressives and anyone remotely critical of income inequality. But in a 2014 interview with Bloomberg, the billionaire made it clear that he really didn't care.

SHELDON ADELSON: Thankfully, according to Bloomberg...

BETTY LIU: You're the 10th richest man in the world.

SHELDON ADELSON: Tenth, maybe. But think about that -- there's seven billion people. That means there's six billion, nine hundred and ninety nine million, nine hundred and ninety thousand people that are not at my level. It's a lot. I'm not sure I've got the numbers right, but you get the point.

BETTY LIU: [Chuckles] I think you're pretty close.

SHELDON ADELSON: I don't think I'm ever going to retire.

BETTY LIU: What have you learnt as you've gotten older?

SHELDON ADELSON: I've learnt to seek advice from other people, and get more than my own viewpoint on something. I've learnt that now that I've accumulated incredible amounts of money, I could do some good for humanity. I don't necessarily want to build a dynasty because a friend of mine says that he only cares about the faces he can see. So when you think ahead, you're saying, in three generations from now, my children's children, children, do I really care about them? I don't even know who they are. They don't exist.

BETTY LIU: What is the difference, Sheldon, how did life change for you from being a 38-billion dollar man, from being a 1-billion dollar man? What was the difference?

SHELDON ADELSON: Not much

CH: Part of a 2014 conversation between Sheldon Adelson and Bloomberg's Betty Liu. His money shaped politics across the United States and around the world. But there was one place where Mr. Adelson's influence was felt above all, Las Vegas. So when he purchased the Las Vegas Review Journal in late 2015, one of its columnists felt he had no choice but to resign in protest. John L. Smith spoke with Carol on our show in May 2016 and described the moment he realised what he had to do.

JOHN L. SMITH: I became apparent when I got the phone call from an interim editor who said the new publisher has just had a meeting with him and the first order of business was to instruct John Smith not to write about Sheldon Adelson, not to mention his name, not to mention any business that he's interested in. I was stunned at the thin skinned nature of it. But, you know, I do have my own realities and that includes a mortgage and I have a disabled daughter to take care of. So there were things to consider. But to put a corral around a columnist is to take away the column. I'm the metro columnist, or was -- I keep talking in the present tense. But as a metro columnist, if you can't be pugnacious, well, then go write the gardening column. It's my job to shine that light, to throw those rocks at the castle occasionally. I also write the tear jerker column and hopefully make folks laugh once in a while. But if I can't hold the powerful to account, you know, it becomes a joke.

CO: This was essentially a gag order.

JOHN L. SMITH: It was yes. It was a gag order with your job held over your head. I was reminded in a heated meeting of my salary at the paper, of my need for insurance in my life -- that was all held over my head right before I handed in my resignation.

CO: You wrote much of what you're saying to us here. You wrote this in a letter to your colleagues, left copies of it on their desks and left your job. And so what was that like?

JOHN L. SMITH: You know, a little scary. When I say I love the job, as we all do in our communities, if you're in the newspaper, you know, I love my community. You know, I felt like I was fighting the good fight and it's difficult to walk from that, but I also couldn't get up in the morning and be a hypocrite and essentially misdirect people. I wouldn't do it.

CH: That was former Las Vegas Review Journal columnist John L. Smith speaking with Carol on As It Happens in 2016, shortly after casino magnate Sheldon Adelson purchased that paper. Mr. Adelson died on Monday. He was 87 years old.

[Music]

UK bison hiring

Guest: Stan Smith

CH: Your average help wanted ad does not include the caveat, no bison experience necessary. But that will definitely reassure anyone thinking of applying for a job with the Wilder Blean Project in the U.K. The team there is looking for a pair of rangers to help manage an incoming herd of wild European bison. And since European bison haven't roamed the country for about 6000 years, they're fairly unlikely to find anyone who's done the job before. Stan Smith is the Wilder Landscapes manager at Kent Wildlife Trust. He's shepherding this unique project. We reached him in Hastings, England.

CO: Stan this sounds like a very interesting job. What qualifications would I need to apply for bison herd manager?

STAN SMITH: [Chuckles] Well, we're not expecting people to have bison experience in the U.K., that's for sure, because you couldn't get any yet. There aren't any here. And actually, the European bison that we're using may never have been here, but the animal that we did have here, the steppe bison, and unfortunately went extinct. So now we're trying to use the closest living relatives. But what we're looking for in people is somebody who has a really good sort of empathy with animals, that they're probably used to managing large grazing herbivores, things like cattle or horses, and somebody who really understands sort of the ecology of the area. Somebody really can get to grips with a woodland and understand what these animals might be able to do in that context.

CO: This is an important point, isn't it? Because you're introducing a kind of bison that hasn't been there before. Just tell us a bit more about the herd and the size of it that you might be bringing into Blean Woods.

STAN SMITH: Sure thing. So we're going to be starting fairly small. We're looking for a herd of somewhere in the region of four to 10 individuals. And the key thing for us is that they are really kind of functioning family unit. Before that they arrive on site. That way they know how to behave and how to forage for themselves and how to find food. The bison, when they arrive, will be able to freely graze about 200 hectares, something like that. The woodland as a whole is about 400 hectares. So it's a really nice big size of woodland, one of our largest areas of ancient woodland that we still have in the south of England. And so this is a real chance for them to show what they can do, to show how these bison can interact with that environment and what benefits that will bring.

CO: And what are the benefits that you hope this herd might bring to Blean Woods?

STAN SMITH: Well, the bison, just through their natural behaviours, are able to do things that no other animal can. They are Europe's largest remaining land mammal. And they love to do things like eat bark off of trees, which can sort of selectively kill off certain trees, allowing more light to the woodland floor, that sort of thing that we try to do with chainsaws quite frequently. But these animals just do it through their natural behaviour. They also obviously produce a lot of dung. And that's fantastic for invertebrates and for fungi and things like that. And so just by being bison, they should be able to have fantastic interactions with the environment.

CO: So they're kind of natural bulldozers then -- they clear areas.

STAN SMITH: They absolutely are natural kind of bulldozers. They love to sort of roll around on their back to kind of scratch that itch. And that creates these bare patches of earth, which is fantastic for invertebrates. They're what we call ecosystem engineers that are just able to modify the habitats that they're in just by being there.

CO: So what do the managers do? This job that I probably don't qualify for -- what is the job? How do you manage them?

STAN SMITH: Yeah, well, the trick is to try to keep the animals as wild as possible. We want them to be behaving entirely naturally and not be to sort of used to humans. So it's quite a balancing act for those managers. So what they'll be doing mostly is monitoring the bison day to day from a bit of a distance, collecting samples, things like collecting samples of their dung so that we can check on the health from a distance and make sure that they're having the right sort of impacts on the environment.

CO: And so the things that these managers would be looking for as to the impact that the bison are having, I mean, I understand there's a particular species of butterfly for which the project could be really beneficial.

STAN SMITH: Yeah, the Blean Woods area is actually protected under English law for specific species of butterfly, the Heath Fritillary -- quite a pretty little butterfly, just comes out in sort of June and July, it's a brown and yellow sort of speckled thing. And its food plant, the cow wheat is something that these freshly cleared woodland areas in which to grow, where it's got a bit of light on the wooden floor. And so those bison can actually go round and where they eat and browse different vegetation, that plant can be established in those new areas. So you've got Europe's largest land mammal having a beneficial impact on this tiny tiny little butterfly.

CO: Now, this is a very small herd you're introducing. Other places in Europe that have reintroduced the European bison, how much success are they having?

STAN SMITH: Oh, they've had fantastic success. I mean, in the Netherlands, which is quite similar to the UK, you know, fairly densely populated, quite heavily sort of modified environments. They've had bison for about 15 years. And some of those habitats have absolutely sprung back to life. And when you go there, you just can't help but notice the birdsong that's there, the mushrooms that are growing everywhere and the lizards and reptiles that are all around. It's absolutely fantastic to see the impacts that these animals can have.

CO: Good old bison dung -- an underrated quantity. [Chuckles] Now, you describe the densely populated areas where this happens -- Canada has reintroduced bison to various parts, but we have very large ranging territories, this is a benefit of the space we have here. So how large could these herds actually get given the confines?

STAN SMITH: Yeah, well, the area we've got about 200 hectares for them to start with in the Blean, we don't know exactly how many they could get to in the end, but we've started really really small. That way we can really test the impact that they're having on the environment and tweak things as we go along if we have to. We're really keen to make sure that there's enough food for those bison to eat all the year around so we don't have to take them on and off or anything like that. So we know that we've got several years -- bison breed fairly slowly, probably at a maximum of about one calf per year per female. So we've got many, many years to try to get this right. If we do get up to high numbers and we need to move bison on, they can then go on to other projects. And it means that this project can be just the first one of hopefully many in the UK and everyone's actually very very happy with it. It seems that everyone's really excited to see the bison come, so I can't wait for that to happen.

CO: And when does that happen? When do they arrive?

STAN SMITH: The plan is for the bison to arrive about spring next year, spring 2022. So lots of work to do between now and then to get all that fencing in and to get these new bison rangers trained up to make sure they're ready for when the bison arrive.

CO: Well, we'll see if there's any bison rangers out there in our listenership who would like to go. Sounds like a great job, honestly. And Stan it's great to talk to you. Thanks.

STAN SMITH: Thank you very much.

CH: Stan Smith is the Wilder Landscapes manager at Kent Wildlife Trust. We reached him in Hastings, England. For more on the story. visit our website: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

A Love Story

CH: Frederick Paul and Florence Harvey are still in the honeymoon phase more than 65 years after they first met. The newlyweds from Newfoundland's Burin Peninsula were just teenagers when they fell in love in the 1950s. But life got in the way and they went their separate ways. Mr. Paul met his wife in Ontario, and Ms. Harvey met her husband in Newfoundland. They both had children, then grandchildren. And over the years they only talked briefly on the phone once. Then in 2020, after they'd both lost their spouses, their matchmaking brothers reconnected them. Frederick Paul told CBC Newfoundland about the moment he finally saw Florence Harvey again.

FREDERICK PAUL: Finally, she did call and I said to her, are you in Springdale, Newfoundland now? She has a son there. And she said, no. And I said, are you in Grand Falls -- at your old place? She said, no. And I said, are you in Norris Arm? And he said, no, not there as well. And I said, you're not in Ontario, are you? And she said, yes, I am -- I am 10 minutes away. I'm starting to cry now. Sorry.

RAMRAAJH SHARVENDIRAN: No, don't be sorry.

FREDERICK PAUL: Anyway, I said, I want to come over and get you. She said, no -- it's too late, it is 10:30, and we'll meet tomorrow. And I said, no, no, I want to come and get you now. And a few minutes later, her son knocked on her bedroom door and said, mom, get your cloths on, we are going to see Fred.

RAMRAAJH SHARVENDIRAN: I don't even know how to describe these moves you're making. What was going through your mind?

FREDERICK PAUL: I was in bed already and I had to get up and get dressed. And I have a box of seashells from Newfoundland out in the garage and I'll go out and get those and I'm going to put "Welcome Florence" on the driveway. A few minutes later they drove in. And I went outside and I shook hands with her son, who I never met before, and I said hello to his wife. And I went around the car and Florence was getting out of the back seat. And I gave her a kiss on the cheek and held her hand and walked towards my house. And I knew right away she had taken my heart back again.

RAMRAAJH SHARVENDIRAN: Okay Florence, I need you to come in here. What was going through your mind when you saw that message on the driveway and when you held your hand?

FLORENCE HARVEY: Well I knew, like he did that there was still something there after all those years. And it was only about probably three days or four days after that, we were talking marriage. [Chuckles]

CH: That was Florence Harvey and Frederick Paul speaking with St. John's Morning show host Ramraajh Sharvendiran. The couple married this summer.

January 13, 2021 Episode Transcript

Social Sharing

More from this episode