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The AIH Transcript for April 4, 2019

Hosts: Carol Off and Jeff Douglas

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello I'm Carol Off.

JEFF DOUGLAS: Good evening. I'm Jeff Douglas. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

JD: Tonight...

CO: Post-crash course. Ralph Nader's grand-niece died when the Ethiopian Airlines flight went down in March -- and tonight, he'll tell us about the lawsuit his family has filed against Boeing.

JD: Pick-up predator. After a woman is murdered by the man she thought was her Uber driver -- a South Carolina lawmaker proposes a bill that would force ride-share companies to clearly identify their cars.

CO: An ounce of prevention. Nikki Carruthers had her textured breast implants removed after years of illness -- so she's relieved that Health Canada is moving to remove them from the market.

JD: Fission tackle. A former nuclear inspector finds Saudi Arabia's first nuclear reactor -- and warns that neither the Kingdom nor its allies seem to be too focused on following the rules.

CO: The situation is more fluid than usual. Brexit is stalled -- and given that British MPs keep raining on each other's parades, it's only fitting that the Parliament building itself has sprung a leak.

JD: And the going gets tofu. An EU committee says "sausage," "burger," and "steak" should be reserved for meat products -- meaning veggie products may have to adopt some unsavory new names. As It Happens. The Thursday Edition. Radio that hates to say "I told you soy.".

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Part 1: Ralph Nader lost his grandniece in the Ethiopian Airlines crash — now he's taking on Boeing

Boeing suit: Nader

Guest: Ralph Nader

JD: It is the first official glimpse into what was going on on an Ethiopian airlines flight just before it crashed last month -- killing everyone on board. A preliminary report from Ethiopian authorities says that pilots followed proper procedures but were not able to stop the plane from nose-diving into the ground. It is more damning evidence that points to a malfunction of a computer system which automatically pitches the nose down on the 737 MAX 8 aircraft, if it detects a stall. Today, the first lawsuit was launched against Boeing, Ethiopian Airlines, and the company that makes the aircraft's flight control system. A claim was also filed against the Federal Aviation Administration. The lawsuits were filed by the family of 24-year-old Samyo Stumo -- who was killed in the crash. Ms. Stumo is the grand-niece of consumer rights advocate Ralph Nader. We reached Mr. Nader in Winsted, Connecticut.

CO: Mr. Nader first of all I'm sorry for your loss.

RALPH NADER: It's a big loss. She was the kind of leader that we hoped to get from our young generation in our world -- and wanted to change the way global health was deployed. Big on community health in Africa and South America. It's a tremendous loss -- not just her and her family, but all the people who she would have saved over the next 50 years.

CO: Who do you believe is responsible for the death of this young woman -- your grand-niece?

RN: Boeing corporation clearly. The pattern of detailed criminal negligence is now out. The evidence is in. All that's remaining is whether it was knowing and woeful to establish a case for corporate homicide. Boeing got away with it because our FAA is a delegator not a regulator. It is under pressure from Congress and the White House over the years -- and I mean years. They've cut the FAA budget. They've allowed politicians to repress the professional standards of their engineers. And although there were heated discussions about the Boeing 737 MAX between the FAA and Boeing -- and inside Boeing and FAA, these engineers were never allowed to speak out. These planes should be more than grounded --Boeing should recall all these planes. It's not a software patch -- it's a fundamental design of aerodynamic instability in terms of making that plane prone to stall instead of prone proof.

CO: The lawsuit from your family has come just hours after Ethiopia's Transport Minister released preliminary findings saying that the aircraft had a valid certificate of airworthiness. The pilots were licensed and qualified to conduct the flight. The plane's takeoff appeared to be very normal. But that the pilots repeatedly performed all the emergency procedures provided by Boeing but they were not able to control the aircraft. What does that tell you?

RN: That tells me that the software monster called artificial intelligence took control of the plane from its own pilots -- and the pilots had to fight this monster again and again as the software pushed the nose of the plane down and they lost the fight. They just simply -- physically --could not overpower that software command.

CO: I understand that your family is also suing the FAA -- the Federal Aviation Administration --why is that?

RN: The FAA is in complicity here -- they are a captured regulatory agency and they were pressured by politicians beholden to Boeing and Congress and the White House to be weaker and weaker and rubberstamp Boeing. They actually have delegate entirely -- the inspectors. They let Boeing in Washington state, in the factory, pick its own inspectors. One of them says, this part meets the standard. The other says, well I as a representative of the US government approve. And then they send it back to the FAA and the FAA rubberstamp's it. And that is what led the top executives who wanted to rush this plane into the marketplace to catch up with the Airbus 320 Neo to make the horrible decision that they made -- cutting corners and pushing an aging design beyond its limits.

CO: What are your lawyers -- lawyers for your families -- setting out to prove?

RN: To prove willful and knowing violation of established aerodynamic safety practices that led to the crash in Indonesia and in Ethiopia. It could be called criminal negligence -- and it's up to the Justice Department probe to see whether it's even more willful than that. There is NASA ASRS hotline for pilots to report over the years any risky situation in the air like a near collision. And that hotline is full of pilots expressing their outrage about -- what one pilot called quote, "criminally insufficient" training manuals. Boeing never even announced to the pilots what they were doing. They didn't even tell the airlines in most cases about this so-called software response to a defective engineering design. The lawsuit will not be stopped by political pressure as it might be in Congress and the Department of Transportation -- it is going to go to trial by jury in open court, press there, anybody who wants to come will be there, and it will not be deterred by political restraints.

CO: You have fought for consumers interests for decades. You have fronted many legal actions. You have taken on the watchdogs who are supposed to be protecting people. Have you ever had a campaign that is personal for you as this one?

RN: No. This is a tragedy beyond description. We wrote a book called "Collision Course: The Truth About Airline Safety" in 1994 where we chastised the weak non-regulation of FAA. And I never thought it would come and strike home like that for Samyo Stumo, her family, and all the people she would have helped.

CO: And your grand-niece Samyo Stumo -- she was 24.

RN: All of 24. She'd accomplished more than most people in her work -- double her age. Professional articles, and professional journals. Professional conferences she was invited to. A rising star turned into dust. We had dinner with her Friday before the weekend -- 20 hours later, she was turned into dust along with 156 other innocent people because Boeing executives wouldn't let the engineers do their job and they cut those tragic deadly corners on the 737 MAX 8.

CO: Mr. Nader again I'm sorry for your loss, but I really appreciate you speaking with us. Thank you.

RN: Thank you very much Carol.

JD: We reach Ralph Nader in Winsted, Connecticut. We contacted Boeing and the other companies named in the lawsuit as well as the FAA -- Boeing responded quote, "As the investigation continues, Boeing is cooperating fully with the investigating authorities. We won't comment on the lawsuit directly." The FAA said it would not comment on pending litigation. The other companies involved did not respond. We have more on this story on our website: cbc.ca/aih.

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Breast implant ban

Guest: Nikki Carruthers

JD: For years, some women have complained about health problems they believed were related to their breast implants. Textured implants, which were supposed to be less prone to slippage. Some of those women developed a rare form of cancer possibly linked to the implants. You may have heard some of their stories in 2013 as part of a joint CBC-Toronto Star investigation. Well today Health Canada announced it is moving to ban the Biocell breast implants. It is calling the move a precautionary measure. Nikki Carruthers suffered from a series of illnesses after she got the implants in 2013. We reached Ms. Carruthers in Winnipeg.

CO: Nikki what does it mean to you to see Health Canada take action on these breast implants?

NIKKI CARRUTHERS: It's an awesome step forward. I'm so happy to see that they're actually warning them that this kind of stuff isn't going to be tolerated by Health Canada, and they're not going to let them get away with people having these implants in them and not being warned about the lymphoma that they cause.

CO: I want to ask you about what you were told or not told -- but just tell us a bit about how you've been suffering since you had the implants put in.

NC: I've had a wide range of illnesses. I've had many many symptoms -- including some I still have -- including tachycardia. I can't really walk more than 10 minutes without having to rest. I still have horrible brain fog issues. I have lots of severe-widespread joint pain and body pain. Inflammation. Still have liver problems, kidney problems. Many things going on that I'm still getting tests for all the time. It's like a full-time job.

CO: And this is after you have had the implants removed. So how quickly did you start suffering from the ill effects of them?

NC: There was pain right away after surgery. I had a very massive reaction to the actual implant being put in. I had capsular contracture almost right away -- which means the implants are being pushed out of my incision. Essentially they were being constricted with like a really hard scar capsule which was extremely painful. And then it just got gradually worse and worse from there until it became so close that I thought I was going to die from it.

CO: The reason why Health Canada has made this move is because of possible links to a form of cancer -- a rare form of cancer -- that some women have reported which is a Non-Hodgkin Lymphoma. What did you think when you heard that there were all these cases that might be linked to those implants?

NC: Well I'm not surprised because I've been knowing this for months now. The BIA-ALCL -- the auto immune system cancer that they cause is basically the only reason I feel like anyone was ever taking that seriously because anyone else with just a breast implant illness, nobody's really listening to you. But now that Health Canada is taking such a strong step here, it's going to help so much in regulating the rest of the implants that are also still a risk for the public as well.

CO: I'll just put out that Health Canada says that they don't know the cause of this rare cancer, but they are just having this as a precautionary measure -- removing them from the market. What did your doctor tell you about possible risks associated with implants when you were talking to him about having them put in?

NC: He never said anything about cancer -- that's for sure. No type of autoimmune disease. No connective tissue disease. Nothing like that. The only kind of warning I ever received was that there might be some cosmetic abnormalities or you may be unhappy with the size or regular surgical complications such as infection or stuff like that.

CO: And when you started developing these symptoms, who did you report that to?

NC: So in 2017 that's when everything got really really bad for me. I actually found out that I had a large liver tumor and then from there on -- all my blood work kept getting worse, and I kept being hospitalized for all these different symptoms. So I was doing research and I came across all these other women who also were sick from their implants as well. And they had all the same sort of symptoms as I did. And it was the only thing that made sense because there's about a list of 50 symptoms and all these women have the same stuff going on.

CO: And when CBC and the Toronto Star first investigated these implants in 2018, Health Canada said there was no need to reopen its safety review but later decided to investigate when women were coming forward.

NC: Yes that's right. And I think it's because of all of the public pressure from all the thousands of women coming forward with stories. And they just went to the FDA. There was about 48 of them who marched up there and told their stories, and other surgeons backing us up. There's rheumatologist, there's immunologist -- you name it -- there's everyone who is backing us up now because they're realizing this is a very serious thing that they need to pay more attention to.

CO: And not just for the cancer -- Health Canada said that it will now look at other possible symptoms, health problems, and present that in the summer. How important is that for you?

NC: Oh that's everything we've been working towards. I can't thank the journalists enough for what they've done and the work they've uncovered here. The work that they've done here it's amazing. I couldn't have asked for a better outcome than Health Canada actually taking this seriously. And then the Canadian women who still have these in can have a better chance of getting them removed successfully without leaving them behind with illness because the doctors will better understand how to treat it as more evidence is being released and information is being shared between professionals.

CO: You know that breast augmentation is probably the most popular cosmetic surgery out there. Millions of women have had implants and well they say they've had no health problems with that. What advice would you give? What would you say to a woman who asked you whether they should have breast implants?

NC: If they were going to get them, I would say runaway -- don't make our mistake. Just look at our photos. Look at our evidence. We are the evidence. If you want to be sick for the rest your life -- honestly like I can't get out of bed some days. Like most days it's a struggle just to do anything -- to pour a bowl of cereal. If you want to act like you're a 90-year-old person when you're 29, then yeah I guess -- if you want to do that. But don't make our mistake. We've already done it. Just follow our in footsteps instead and don't do it.

CO: Nikki I really appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

NC: Yes thank you so much.

JD: Nikki Carruthers had Biocell textured breast implants from 2013 to 2018. We reached her in Winnipeg. Today, Health Canada said it is moving to ban Biocell implants.

[Music]

E.U. veggie 'meat'

Guest: Molly Scott Cato

JD: No matter how much you may love them, you may soon be unable to sink your teeth into a tofu sausage, or a veggie burger, in the EU. I mean they'll still be there. You'll still be able to eat them. They just won't be sausages or burgers anymore. They will be "tubes" or "discs." This week, members of a European Parliament committee voted to recommend that vegetarian and vegan companies be prohibited from using such meat related words as "steak," "burger," "bacon" to describe their products. Molly Scott Cato is a Green Member of European Parliament, for the South West of England and Gibraltar. She sits on the Agriculture Committee. We reached her in Manchester.

CO: Ms. Scott Cato according to those who voted on this what's wrong with terms like "tofu sausage" or "veggie burger?"

MOLLY SCOTT CATO: Well this was a rather strange decision I think because what they said is you can't call something a burger or a sausage unless it's actually got meat in it. And obviously a lot of vegetarians who are now used to eating those kinds of food products without meat in it are up in arms about this and I sympathize with them. And I think where this is really coming from is the meat industry who are really worried about the fact that a lot of young people are turning away from meat because of their concerns about its impact on the climate and also for health reasons. And they're really now trying to put pressure on manufacturers of meat substitute products.

CO: If that's the case, are they looking to see people not buy things that might be a vegetable protein tube or a veggie disc?

MOLLY SCOTT CATO: Well this is the rather strange part of the story really that there was no demand for this from the public. People didn't think they were being deceived because they were buying a burger and there was no meat in it. As you say, you know there's now the suggestion that you won't be able to call it a burger and you might call it a vegetable protein disc or something horrible like that. The reality is it's quite a good marketing opportunity. And marketing people will come up with suggestions for new names. And I think it'll be just the way of people saying actually our alternatives are better than your burgers and we don't care whether we can call them a burger or not. You know apparently [inaudible] people said you know it's like milk but made for humans. So yeah it's an opportunity I think to really brand vegetarian and vegetable products as actually better than meat.

CO: You're referring to the dairy industry has already weighed in on this -- they've already got the names of things like soy milk changed, right?

MOLLY SCOTT CATO: That's right. And I think it's from the same source. It's come from a French socialist -- this proposal. I personally find it rather shame because we've always thought of the French as being very innovative where food is concerned and it's a bit disappointing that they're just trying to stop the change and development in food cultures today I think.

CO: The French MEP who introduced the changes -- this is a quote -- said, "people need to know what they are eating, so people who want to eat less meat know what they are eating." So what do you think of that argument?

MOLLY SCOTT CATO: Well that's kind of a rather strange suggestion that people were sort of digging through their bean burgers and saying, where's my meat? You know which clearly never actually happens because if you buy a vegetarian burger that's because you're a vegetarian. So I think that's really quite a fake argument. And I think it is indeed the meat industry and perhaps some purist French MEPs as well who just really think meat is the centre of our food culture -- but obviously that's not true. And for a long time people have been moving towards eating vegetables and it's really quite recent that people have had meat at the centre of their diet because people weren't rich enough to afford that previously.

CO: You are on this committee though (in) the European Parliament -- that had this vote, made this decision. So what was the discussion? Was there much opposition?

MOLLY SCOTT CATO: It's a very long and complex bit of law we're working on which is revising the whole farm support system. And this was a little tiny annex -- I think it's number 41 -- it sort of sneaked in at the end. And I'm not sure it's had that much attention paid to it to be honest with you. And I think now that the stories come out and everybody's like, what? You know I don't want to eat a vegetable disc rather than a veggie burger. I think there'll be a lot of pressure on MEPs in the next stages after the European elections which come at the end of May. There'll be a new parliament -- and the whole parliament will get to vote on this. And I think to be honest with you there'll be a lot more debate and discussion. But it could well be by the end of that there'll be considerable lobbying of MEPs and perhaps the decision will be reversed.

CO: Will it just be for packaging or is it also when you go into a restaurant or fast food place that you're going to see veggie discs instead of veggie burgers?

MOLLY SCOTT CATO: Yeah well I don't think anybody's actually going to try and sell anybody a veggie disc honestly. Oh yeah there was another really one -- what was it? It was something like a frying saucer or something anyway. So I think it does apply also in restaurants as well as on packaging. But I don't think we'll be seeing the weird names that the bureaucrats have come up with. I think we'll be seeing creative and interesting names on menus and packaging.

CO: Those who are putting this forward -- if they had their way we'd be looking at the board and ordering a veggie disc with a protein tube on a bun and a soya product shake.

MOLLY SCOTT CATO: But I tell you what, your listeners can make their own proposals for what names we can use instead because I think there's quite an interesting competition to be had there.

CO: Oh you have thrown down a challenge. This is something listeners to this program love to contribute -- anything to do with words -- so yes it's out there then. People can offer their own descriptions or words for veggie burgers and tofu dogs. But just finally before we let you go -- I mean if there's Brexit are you gone -- will you not be able to contribute to this discussion in the future if Theresa May has her way?

MOLLY SCOTT CATO: Well obviously I'm battling that hard and I think at the moment we've got the momentum with us, so I think it's -- yeah -- at least slightly we'll be saying is leaving. But the thing is because we're still part of the same market and you know there's really no point in just making a new packaging for 65 million people in Britain if you sell to 500 million people across the continent. So the chances are we will carry on following this law but the difference is if we leave the European Union there won't be people like me there telling other people that it's rather a daft idea.

CO: So you'll have tofu tubes thrust upon you with no say.

MOLLY SCOTT CATO: That's absolutely correct and that's one of many reasons why Brexit is not a good idea.

CO: We'll leave it there. Ms. Scott Cato thank you.

MOLLY SCOTT CATO: Thank you.

JD: Molly Scott Cato is the Green Member of European Parliament for the South West of England and Gibraltar. We reached her in Manchester. And if you have a succulent suggestion for a new name for an alternative veggie food let us know. Talkback is waiting to be served! 416-205-5687. Tweet us your names @CBCAsItHappens.

[Music]

A leak in the house

JD: A house divided against itself cannot stand. And since there's no house more divided right now than the British House of Commons -- it only stands to reason that it's falling apart. I don't just mean British government -- which remains bitterly split over Brexit -- but yesterday in fact for the first time since 1993, one vote split MPs right down the middle -- with 310 voting for more indicative votes, and 310 voting against indicative votes. That forced Speaker John Bercow to break the tie, voting -- as is tradition -- with the government. Which meant the nos had it. Which meant that the House would hold no more indicative votes which are non-binding votes which ultimately means nothing anyway. All of this apparently was too much for the House of Commons itself to take. The building itself. Here's Tory MP Justine Greening speaking in the House earlier today.

SOUNDCLIP

JUSTINE GREENING: I want to finally finish my comments...

VOICE 1: The roof is leaking.

JUSTINE GREENING: With a leaky roof in the background. This has been an interesting week for other events happening whilst members have been giving speeches.

JD: Yes. Water was pouring through the ceiling of the press gallery. And yet, for a few minutes, MPs stiff-upper-lipped it. Including Labour MP Justin Madders.

SOUNDCLIP

JUSTIN MADDERS: Thank you. Mr. Deputy Speaker I hope I can complete my speech before rain stops play. I think there's probably some kind of symbol about how many people have you broke -- how broken parliament is. But let's return to the matter in hand. I want to congratulate the member...

JD: Not long after that the Deputy Speaker suspended the sitting. On Twitter, the Commons Press Office announced that it had isolated the problem. And also prevented the metaphor from becoming too on-the-nose by tweeting quote, "We would like to clarify this was not a sewage leak." Well maybe a break was for the best. Otherwise there wouldn't have been a dry "Aye" or "Nay" in the House.

[Music]

Part 2: 'This could happen anywhere”: Man mistaken for Uber driver charged in U.S. student's murder

'Uber' murder

Guest: Seth Rose

JD: It is a scene that plays out nearly every night in nearly every North American city: the bars are closing, a crowd gathers at the curb -- scanning the street for the Uber they just ordered. That is what 21-year-old college student Samantha Josephson did in Columbia, South Carolina, last Friday. The car she entered however turned out not to be an Uber at all. And she was kidnapped, and killed -- and a man is now in custody charged in her death. Also now a bill with bipartisan support is being proposed in South Carolina's House of Representatives aimed at making ride-share cars stand out more on the road. Seth Rose is a Democratic state representative. We reached him in Columbia, South Carolina.

CO: Rep. Rose why was it so important for you to propose this law?

SETH ROSE: Because I am in the state legislature to make a difference. And I also represented the area that this occurred in. And so being that I represent the campus of the University of South Carolina, and the entertainment district where she was lured into this car by this maniac, I felt it incumbent on me to research the law. I mean this is a relatively new industry, and I wanted to research the law that governs ride-shares.

CO: So you actually live quite close to this intersection where Samantha Josephson was picked up.

SR: My home -- my front door is a fourth of a mile from the curb that she was picked up at. One fourth of a mile.

CO: There's security footage that's really chilling, isn't it? Can you describe what we can see of the last moments that people know of Samantha Josephson.

SR: I mean it's hard to watch honestly. She gets in the car and drives off -- and never to be seen again. And you know I've read media accounts where her boyfriend had said that he was following her phone -- her smartphone -- tracking her and he knew immediately that something was wrong because she lived at an apartment complex on Main Street, and was going in a completely different direction. It's just a really horrible incident. It's almost like a nightmare. But the reason why this has garnered so much attention in my opinion is because this could happen anywhere. If there was a crazy man that wanted to do something terrible -- I feel like right now the lack of awareness of safeguards -- and I've been guilty of it, my wife's been guilty of it, we walk up and go to an Uber driver and say "Are you David?" And they say, "Yeah I am David." And we hop in. We don't check the license plate. We don't ask him, "what's my name?" -- which is a campaign that started down here, to go up to the Uber driver and say, what's my name? And I mean I know for example in Five Points -- where this incident occurred -- my wife drives a minivan and one time she was having dinner with her friends in Five Points -- which is the entertainment district this occurred in -- and there's college kids like opening her door, "Are you an Uber?" And that really comes to the crux the issue for me is when you watch the video, the colour is completely -- unless you're paying attention -- there is no visible markings unless someone is really examining the vehicle. You know as I looked into the statue and I saw that having illuminated signs is optional. And then I looked and researched Uber and ride-shares, and I started to find that Uber has a light that they've trademarked it has what they call a 'beacon.' And in certain large cities, the drivers are given this light -- the phone will give you an option to either select a colour, and if you don't select the colour they will assign one to you. So say the phone gives you yellow -- your screen turns yellow, and then you see a car coming down the street when your Uber is arriving and you see the light yellow, and it's telling you that's your car. So I'm thinking of myself, technology already exists -- how can this not be an added protection?

CO: So this is the principle part of the legislation you've introduced.

SR: Yes. And I understand that there are counterfeit lights out there but these counterfeit lights -- and when I say counterfeit they're not from Uber, it is from people that are knocking them off and just selling them or whatever -- they're not going to have the technological capabilities that Uber already has with the technology. Essentially I sponsored a bill to require illuminated lights. We're also looking at the possibility of maybe for ride-share companies doing a license plate on the front of a car.

CO: What are the ride sharing companies like Lyft and Uber -- what are they saying about your legislation? Have they responded?

SR: I have not spoken to Lyft, but I have spoken to Uber. Uber initially was supportive. And recently they've kind of said well we'd be supportive of the license plate but not light.

CO: But why not? I mean they must recognize -- because you said that this could happen anyone. And it has, hasn't it? I mean this is not the only case -- this is a murder in this case -- but there are others who have been abducted, and robbed, and assaulted because of people posing as Uber or Lyft or ride-share drivers. So isn't it in their interest to ensure the safety of their customers?

SR: Yes I would think so. And to be fair we do need to note that this wasn't an employee of Uber that did this.

CO: That's right. But people posing and -- this is kind of making life quite simple for predators, isn't it?

SR: Yes. But that's my point -- I'm not giving them a pass. And that's why I have gone with the bill. I'm simply saying from an Uber standpoint, there are safe balances and checks in the app. I just feel like the mandating of illuminated lights with the technology we've described is an added safeguard.

CO: What about educating people to at least make sure that the person knows and asking them, what's my name? Because you're supposed to know the name of the customer -- "what's your name?" Don't they have a responsibility here?

SR: They do. They do. And you know what, I'm as guilty as the next person because I have gotten into the wrong Uber before -- without checking the license plate, countless times. So really it's a matter of awareness. I think this tragedy -- this horrific tragedy -- alone has brought a lot of awareness. You know I read somewhere where her father -- Samantha's father -- said, I don't want my daughter -- her name -- to be forgotten. And I take that to be -- I don't want her to have lost her life this tragic way in vain -- that we need to do something about it. And I think that's what this legislation is about -- it is trying to move the ball forward, it is a relatively new industry and we need to take a closer look at it.

CO: Well we'll leave it there Mr. Rose. I'm sure people in other jurisdictions will be interested in how your legislation goes and I appreciate you telling us about it. Thank you.

SR: Yeah of course. Thank you Carol.

JD: Seth Rose is a Democratic state representative. We reached him in Columbia, South Carolina. And we have more on this story on our website: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Saudi nuclear facility

Guest: Robert Kelley

JD: Robert Kelley has discovered that Saudi Arabia is about to join what can be a pretty dangerous little club. The question is whether the kingdom will follow the club rules. Mr. Kelley used to run nuclear inspections in Iraq for the International Atomic Energy Agency. What he has discovered is Saudi Arabia's first nuclear reactor. Mr. Kelley is now a fellow at the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute. We reached him in Vienna.

CO: Mr. Kelley what can you tell us about this nuclear reactor that you have identified in Saudi Arabia?

ROBERT KELLEY: The reactor that we've located is a very small reactor -- it is a research reactor -- which would be used for training students and engineers and producing neutrons for small physics experiments. It's a very small item -- just a quarter about the size of the wastebasket in your room.

CO: So why should anyone be concerned about that?

RK: They're only concerned because it's the time when Saudi Arabia will cross a line where they have to begin inspections by the IAEA and they are going to have to start becoming very transparent about their nuclear programs. Up until now, they haven't been very transparent. That concerns me a bit because we have the Crown Prince saying in a CBS interview that he's willing to build nuclear weapons if he thinks Iran's doing that. That's not a good thing when the country has signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and given up weapons forever.

CO: Just for people -- to remind them the IAEA (is the) International Atomic Energy Agency. And what reluctance have you noted that Saudi Arabia has in having the IAEA come in and inspect its program?

RK: Well they have been a member of the treaty for 30 years, and it took them 17 years to get around to actually putting anything in place that had to do with allowing IAEA to come. And as soon as they did that they got an exemption from IAEA that said we Saudi Arabia are telling you that we have nothing -- take our word for it and you don't have to come. And the IAEA accepted their word for it. So IAEA has not been inspecting them for the last 30 years. Well that's a little bit concerning in a country that has large uranium reserves and the political leader saying he would be willing to make nuclear weapons in violation of its treaty obligations.

CO: This comes at the same time where there are concerns in Congress in the United States concerning the sale of nuclear technology to Saudi Arabia specifically seven permits for the transfer of sensitive nuclear information to the Saudi government that seems to be under some sort of cloud or not exactly transparent. What can you tell us about that?

RK: I think that's where this story is likely to go. I don't think that the reactor itself is particularly important. But it highlights a lot of what the Trump administration has been doing to court Saudi Arabia to have special arrangements of Saudi Arabia to treat them differently. And you have the former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn who fell out of favour and is now facing jail time was trying to sell Saudi Arabia 16 reactors as part of a consortium. And when the U.S. Department of Energy is not willing to even say what the technology transfer they allowed was -- that's a transparency issue. And I've noticed the Democrats in Congress are jumping on that.

CO: Including Brad Sherman who says, if you cannot trust a regime with a bone-saw, you should not trust them with nuclear weapons.

RK: That's his opinion and I can understand why he's saying it.

CO: Michael Flynn is now gone. He's no longer the security advisor. He no longer presumably has that influence in the White House. Why is there still concern that there might be some commercial interest in allowing Saudi Arabia to access nuclear material without having too much oversight?

RK: There's something that's called the gold standard -- more officially it's called the '123 Agreement.' It's part of the U.S. Atomic Energy Act. And it says that any country that wants nuclear technology from the United States has to agree not to reprocess plutonium from reactor fuel, and it agrees not to enrich uranium from mines. And Saudi Arabia has been balking at agreeing to that. So if you have a country that is going against what every non-proliferation and political scientist thinks is important barrier to making nuclear weapons and you see that the Trump administration is furthering that by being non-transparent and giving Saudi Arabia a special treatment. I think it raises a lot of concerns in a lot of quarters that this is not normal -- it is not the way things should be done.

CO: We've heard from other people like Thomas Countryman who is the assistant secretary of state under the Obama administration -- he says, I believe the Saudis saw an opportunity with Donald Trump and Jared Kushner to conclude rapidly on their terms -- the hold out of a major purchases of nuclear material. What ongoing concerns do you have about what sales might be going on that we don't know about?

RK: As far as concerns, I think the biggest is that Saudi Arabia is sitting on a very large reserve of uranium. And they have said -- openly -- that they plan to mine that uranium, extract it from phosphates. That is a concern because again it's another activity that needs to be regulated. And if they start producing uranium that no one knows how much they've produced or where they produced it and start putting it into activities that are not being monitored by IAEA -- I think you have the potential for an Iraq type situation in the long-run where things are going on in the background that no one suspects.

CO: Doesn't Saudi Arabia have legitimate concerns about the potential for Iran to have nuclear weapons?

RK: Well it's a very political question. I have my own opinions that Iran is not actively pursuing nuclear weapons and I think the deal that was reached with Iran was a very good one for either stopping them or slowing them down. So I would be concerned that MBS (Mohammed bin Salman) if he were to say I'm developing nuclear weapons because Iran is -- might not have any evidence to support that. And so you're into a situation where he can argue that he can overthrow a treaty that this country has agreed to. And you'll have the means of doing it once he establishes this uranium program. They could be another Pakistan. Pakistan developed nuclear weapons but the main difference is Pakistan didn't sign a treaty saying, I'll never have them. Pakistan basically said we will not sign your treaty and then they ended up developing weapons. So I think that's the difference. It looks to me like Saudi Arabia could be another Pakistan but in violation of something they have agreed not to do.

CO: Mr. Kelley it's very worrisome, very interesting, what you're telling us. And I appreciate you speaking with us. Thank you.

RK: You're most welcome.

JD: Robert Kelley is a fellow with the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, and the former director of the International Atomic Energy Agency's inspections program in Iraq. We reached him in Vienna.

[Music]

Puerto Rico: Congressman

Guest: Darren Soto

JD: It's not a real secret that there is no real love lost between US President Donald Trump and Puerto Rico's political leaders. But now, once again, that mutual antagonism has become abundantly clear as a battle over disaster relief for the island territory rages in Washington. Democrats and Republicans have not been able to agree on a package that would provide funding for Puerto Rico. That prompted President Trump to lash out on Twitter calling Puerto Rico's politicians quote, "incompetent and corrupt." Democratic Congressman Darren Soto of Florida wants Puerto Rico to get statehood. We reached Congressman Soto in Washington D.C.

CO: Congressman Soto as you know President Trump is on Twitter calling a Puerto Rican mayor "crazed." The governor of Puerto Rico warned the White House, if that bully gets close -- I'll punch the bully in the mouth. What's going on once again between the White House and Puerto Rico?

DARREN SOTO: Well the president continues to treat Puerto Ricans on the island -- Americans on the island -- as second class citizens. And this latest forays is just atrocious and disheartening. We're talking about the NAP program which is their food assistance program and about hungry kids. We're talking about the remainder of the disaster relief. Puerto Rico has only received 10.5-billion dollars in recovery -- in reconstruction so far. You have the president who is coming up with these outlandish figures like 91-billion to try to sow division and hatred. And even some of his Republican fellow senators are getting very concerned about the rhetoric. And of course we Democrats outwardly condemn this attack on Americans down on my family's native island.

CO: I just want to ask you about those numbers that President Trump -- he says he's taken better care of Puerto Rico than any man ever. And he mentioned -- you said the 91-billion that has been spent there, it is more hurricane relief than any place in history. Is there even a grain of truth in any of this?

DS: So, no obviously not given the round of criticism he's received. But let's talk about the real facts. The highest death count in modern American history for disaster -- nearly 3000 people, longest blackout in American history. So this is what will define the disaster relief. Not thrown paper towels and not claiming to be the best thing that's ever happened to Puerto Rico. This idea of 91-billion -- that's the total damages that Puerto Rico has sustained. But at last check they are eligible for about 48-billion dollars in disaster relief because they have the worst disaster among all the disasters that have recently happened. So to use false numbers and heighten divisive rhetoric was nothing new for President Trump. It is something that we will continue to fight with facts and unity.

CO: We have spoken with many people in Puerto Rico since the hurricane -- including the leaders, the mayor. And we've heard from many people about how much despair there has been -- how little is functioning. You and others have been trying to get this -- break this impasse and get the funding. So is it just President Trump -- is it just the White House -- or are you finding the opposition in Congress as well?

DS: Definitely among the GOP dominated Senate. We put out a 14-billion dollar disaster relief package to take care of my home state of Florida after Hurricane Michael. South Carolina and North Carolina with Hurricane Florence. As well as the fires in California. And that's just putting an initial sum of money to help out the Midwest which has had flooding. So we saw the Senate undercut that with 12-billion dollars in their package. And they just continue to fight us tooth and nail. The only good news is that both plans had an impasse in the Senate and now will have to negotiate. But it seems like they're willing to hold the rest of America hostage particularly areas that are facing disaster and need FEMA assistance just to help this personal grudge that the president has with Puerto Rico. He is embarrassed about the truth that he led a terrible disaster relief effort as judged by the numbers. And now he takes it personally.

CO: The president is saying that he has no grudge against the people of Puerto Rico whom he calls "GREAT" -- capital letters, but it's the politicians. And is it fair to say it's not helpful when the governor says, I'll punch the bully in the mouth or when Mayor Cruz takes him on? Is it possible that the politicians might back away a bit of the criticism and try and get that funding flowing?

DS: Well certainly I appreciate both Governor Rossello and Mayor Carmen Yulin Cruz's emotions and the fact that they're upset. They have dealt with the devastation that most Americans on the mainland have not experienced in generations. So they're expressing the outrage of the island. But to separate the fact that leaders who are duly elected -- who are speaking on behalf of their people from the true interest of the people, it totally sets aside democracy. They are speaking in the politics of outrage because the entire island is outraged by being forgotten. Maybe they could choose more polite words to placate President Trump's ego but it's a sad state of affairs that we can't express the honesty of the true devastation on the island simply because it may upset the president.

CO: One of the things that you are positing is that -- maybe a partial solution -- is you want to see the island's colonial status come to an end. You said it's time to end the 120 years of injustice of Puerto Rico being a colony. How much support do you have from Puerto Rico? Do Puerto Ricans want to become the 51st state?

DS: So there have been two elections already where statehood prevailed. And we'll see also D.C. statehood moving forward here in the U.S. House. This is about respecting democracy and it's about respecting equality since we're pushing for D.C. -- we should be pushing for Puerto Rico as well. But the most compelling argument and the reason why we have a lot of Democrats coming in including folks from our progressive wing is because the status just isn't working. Being caught between being a state and an independent nation is one of the fundamental reasons for all these problems. If Puerto Rico had two U.S. senators and four members of Congress, they wouldn't be treated like a doormat by President Trump.

CO: We will leave it there. Congressman Soto I appreciate your time. Thank you.

DS: Thanks so much.

JD: Darren Soto is a Democratic congressman from Florida. We reached him in Washington D.C. And we have more on this story: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music]

Jagmeet Singh

JD: The leader of the NDP was listening to CBC Radio this morning. On The Current, this morning, Anna-Maria Tremonti spoke with Jane Philpott about her ouster from the Liberal caucus. The newly independent MP for Markham-Stouffville in Ontario said she believed Jody Wilson-Raybould when the former attorney general said she faced inappropriate pressure to give a deferred prosecution deal to SNC-Lavalin. Well that's afternoon, Jagmeet Singh took the matter up with the current attorney general in Question Period.

SOUNDCLIP

JAGMEET SINGH: Mr. Speaker today the Member for Markham-Stouffville reminded us this is about the fundamental principle of politicians interfering with the justice system. She said, I chose the truth, I chose principles that are so important to the future of our country -- that's more important than my political career. Mr. Speaker can the Minister of Justice assure the House that he will not overrule the decision of the Public Prosecution for the sake of a wealthy corporation?

[Applause]

DAVID LAMETTI: Mr. Speaker as I have said at this House -- on a number of occasions -- we're still in a period in which an appeal of the judicial review decision is possible. And therefore Mr. Speaker I will make no pronouncements on the situation with respect to a deferred prosecution agreement because anything that I might say might be interpreted and have an impact on litigation.

JD: That was Justice Minister and Attorney General, David Lemetti, answering a question from NDP leader Jagmeet Singh in the House of Commons this afternoon.

[Music]

Part 3: Meyer Brownstone, former chair of Oxfam Canada, dies at 96

Meyer Brownstone obit

Guest: Keir Brownstone

JD: It is hard to summarize briefly everything Meyer Brownstone accomplished. Mr. Brownstone was one of the architects of Canada's first national healthcare system. He worked for the UN -- helping Jamaica establish its first government as an independent country. He was a professor at the University of Toronto and York. He was probably best known as the chair of Oxfam Canada -- where he observed conflicts, elections, and refugee camps across Central and South America and Africa. And for that work, he was awarded the UN Association in Canada's prestigious Pearson Peace Medal in 1986. Meyer Brownstone died yesterday. He was 96-years-old. Here he is in 1985 speaking to former As It Happens host, Dennis Trudeau, from Santiago, Chile. He was there during protests against the military regime.

SOUNDCLIP

DENNIS TRUDEAU: Professor Brownstone I understand that you had a run in with the police. Can you tell me about that -- what happened?

MEYER BROWNSTONE: Yesterday, we were part of a peaceful demonstration in support of a number of political and labour leaders who've been detained here for approximately 40 days and some of them will be on a hunger strike for a week now. This was a demonstration with about hundred and fifteen people. Our purpose was to deliver a letter to the minister of the interior asking for due process and for the release of these prisoners. The police accosted us as we approached the ministry offices. They seized six leaders violently and took them off and then began to charge into the crowd. The four or five of us ran away and were cornered in an arcade with a water cannon at one end and were attacked from the rear by a group of police wielding truncheons.

DENNIS TRUDEAU: Were you hit?

MEYER BROWNSTONE: Yes -- all of us were hit. I was hit on the head. And some of the other people were hit on parts of their body. It was a very peaceful march. There is no resistance on the part of anyone. The police were simply terrorizing and harassing people and trying to break up the demonstration. We were trapped between a water cannon and a group of policemen coming in from the other end. There was nowhere for us to go so we simply squeezed up against the wall and they came charging down wielding their truncheons. They kicked one of our people. And it gave was a much keener sense of what is part of the daily existence of many people in this country.

JD: That was Meyer Brownstone when he was chair of Oxfam Canada, speaking to As It Happens in 1985. We reached Mr. Brownstone's son, Keir, in Toronto.

CO: Keir first of all I'm sorry for the loss of your father.

KEIR BROWNSTONE: Thank you very much Carol.

CO: And when I hear that tape -- he's describing what he's doing and what he's trying to do...it's a loss for all of us, isn't it?

KB: It's a great loss for all of us. He was a real champion of social justice and peace around the world.

CO: What goes through your mind when you hear your father in the middle of all that -- he's in control but calm and describing what he says people have as their daily existence in Santiago, Chile at that time?

KB: Well you know dad put himself in places -- you know whether it was refugee camps or South Africa during apartheid where he was witnessed to some of the worst degradations of human beings you can imagine, and he was there to fight for a cause and to work for their liberation. So it's at the same time horrifying and makes me incredibly proud.

CO: You mentioned apartheid in South Africa -- really one of the striking moments for which there is video or pictures is a moment with Nelson Mandela. Do you want to describe that?

KB: Well dad had worked behind the scenes against apartheid for years. He had worked as chair of Oxfam Canada as well and had been witnessed to a number of elections around the world as an observer -- and had asked to be part of the observation team for the election in South Africa. And the video I have is the school house of course where Mandela voted. And at the end of the video, he's standing at the ballot box and then he drops the ballot in and taps the ballot box and he turns to be congratulated as you know the first black man to vote in the free elections in South Africa. And as the camera pulls back and he's being congratulated and shaking hands...it's my dad.

CO: What's it like for you when you see that?

KB: It's amazing because you know my dad fought for so long for people's freedom around the world and this was really you know the kind of ultimate in his life's work.

CO: He grew up in north Winnipeg, is that right?

KB: Yes he did -- very proudly so.

CO: Now there is a hotbed for social justice activism if there ever was one -- especially among the Jewish community. Where did he pick it up? Where did he get the sense that he cared --he wanted to champion the rights of others and the underdog?

KB: Well you know he grew up in a poor home where his parents strived to bring success to their kids through education. The community was a very strong Jewish community that believed in socialism and social justice. And my father -- he was not a religious man, but socialism was definitely his faith. You know he came by it honestly through very hard work. He worked in the gold mines of Red Lake to put himself through school. He worked at his uncle's farm when he was a kid which had many Ukrainian women tilling the fields and my dad tried to organize them into a small labour union much to the dismay of his uncles. You know that was my dad. You know anything that he could do to organize and liberate people that was his deal.

CO: What did his uncle think of that?

KB: I don't think he thought [chuckles] very much of it.

CO: A lot is written about all the things he did for Oxfam Canada, as an academic, as an activist, as a monitor. All these things. What was he like as a person?

KB: Dad was...he was a wonderful man. He was gentle. He was loving. You know education was so important to him -- but not just formal education, and I'm not just saying that because I ended up being a high school dropout. You know education as in mentoring and teaching people about life. And you know he spent many years in academia at both York University and U of T. And I can tell you that in the last few days I've been getting emails from people literally around the world and mostly from his students -- every one of them have sent me messages saying how he changed their lives.

CO: You didn't bond over higher education. But you did bond over music, didn't you?

KB: We did bond over music. You know I played classical music when I was a kid. And you know one of my fondest memories would be standing in our living room and in our small house in Regina and you know having my dad conduct me as I practiced.

CO: I'm sure you have so many memories and thoughts and some very very public like that moment with Nelson Mandela and moments that he had at the moment of independence of Jamaica and all of these historic points. But what's the one image for you? What's the one memory that you carry?

KB: Wow! Well the one image for me is actually quite a bit more personal. We went back to Regina when I was in my early 20s and we had held on to the house there that I was born into. And we went to get it ready for sale. We spent the week painting the whole house just you know me and dad -- my sister was there. And the very last day we realized that our work was done and that we were going to be leaving. And my dad and I looked at each other and just broke out in tears and we hugged each other and we left. And as I think of it now it was partly because that was our home for many years. But it was also a time and a place that my dad had lived in this amazing whirlwind of the NDP government and Medicare and all the amazing things that they did. You know my parents hosted the New Year's Eve party there every year and it was famous because everybody would come -- you know Al Blakeney, and Woodrow Lloyd, and just all of our friends and neighbours. It was the New Year's party! So I know you know that for my dad that was probably looking back at the best time of his life.

CO: Keir I really appreciate you sharing your memories of your dad with us. Thank you.

KB: It's a pleasure. Thanks Carol.

JD: Keir Brownstone is the son of Meyer Brownstone -- a Canadian activist and academic who was the longtime chair of Oxfam Canada. Meyer Brownstone died yesterday. He was 96-years-old. We reached Keir in Toronto.

[Music]

Tavia Marlatt

JD: Tavia Marlatt is supposed to be discharged from Vancouver General Hospital today. She says she isn't going anywhere. The 22-year-old suffers with severe epilepsy, and can experience up to 50 seizures a day. They are so bad, that she recently fell and broke her jaw. Ms. Marlatt is asking for funding that will allow her to have a caretaker at home. But the Fraser Health Authority has repeatedly denied that request. She's hoping her protests will change that. Her mom, Renee, spoke with Stephen Quinn -- host of The Early Edition -- about why they are desperately in need of help.

SOUNDCLIP

RENEE: Well one of the things that's changed -- some new information that we've been armed with specifically is around Tavia's brain injury -- how it affects her and makes her vulnerable in the community. In addition to that obviously her seizure disorder being worse than we had anticipated. The doctor has made a change to one of the medications that requires a rescue of medication. It's a nasal spray that's [inaudible] out on the brain to stop a grand mal seizure. Tavia is not able to administer those medications when she's unconscious or in the middle of a seizure. Our our hope and prayer is that we can get some emergency funding released until we can determine if she's eligible for something called CSIL funding or Community Living B.C. which we've been denied before. So our goal is to get that short term funding to keep her safe at home so I can get to work to put a roof over my family's head.

STEPHEN QUINN: And Renee how hopeful are you that some kind of emergency funding will come through so some homecare can be provided?

RENEE: You know after hearing the Health Minister's comments last night, not very helpful. You know I've been trying for 11 years to assign my daughter some support. And for 11 years nobody has listened. The part to me that's the most disheartening -- coming from you know a community where we believe in democracy you know there's areas that when people speak, somebody is listening. And that's sort of a common themes in my experience with the Fraser Health Authority -- and even now with the Minister of Health. Nobody is listening. We're being sent out to the exact same situation that we have come from with no help.

JD: That was Renee Marlatt -- mother of Tavia Marlatt -- speaking on CBC Vancouver's "The Early Edition."

[Music]

Slovakia president

Guest: Grigorij Meseznikov

JD: She is Slovakia's first female president. The surprise victory of Zuzana Caputova on the weekend follows her anti-establishment election campaign which followed her career as a lawyer, activist, and environmentalist. Grigorji Meseznikov is director of the Institute for Public Affairs, that is as an independent think tank in the Slovakian capital of Bratislava. And that is where we reached him.

CO: Mr. Meseznikov how significant is this election of Slovakia's first female president?

GRIGORIJ MESEZNIKOV: Well I think that it's very important. It is about time when woman was elected as a president. But even the more important thing is that she represents the efforts of Slovak society to be more modern. She symbolizes trends to renewal of justice -- fight against corruption, support for principles of equality, abiding the norms of rule of law, and our western foreign policy orientation. From this point of view, I think she will severe as a new hope for our country.

CO: All that sounds fairly positive. Why was it so difficult to have somebody who represented justice, who represented anti-corruption, who represented fairness, all the things that she campaigned on -- why is it such a victory to see such virtue rewarded?

GM: Well because our country passed through quite complicated development in the last years. One investigative journalist -- Jane Kuciak and his fiancee, Martina Kusnirova, were killed because of Jan Kuciak worked as a journalist -- and an another thing is that there are political forces in our country -- populists and extremists -- which are not in line I would say with liberal democratic principles, and they are for another foreign policy orientation.

CO: I want to unpack a lot of what you just said. First of all we covered this extraordinary event of the assassination -- the murder -- of this journalist Jan Kuciak and his fiancee last year. The people turning out into the streets to support the idea of free media. How significant was that in the success of this woman Zuzana Caputova?

GM: Well I think it was very significant because she became a personal symbol of this protest. She participated in this process. She was fighting against corruption on the local level. And people in the street, they demanded changes. Changes in the government. Changes in the atmosphere of society. Changes in law enforcement organizations. Zuzana Caputova was an advocate -- so of course the social movement generated many new leaders but also generated new faces in the politics. And she's just one of these faces. She was successful in campaign. She was under attacks from the populists -- from extremists -- but she was quite firm and she delivered.

CO: And I want to ask you about that because the trend is in Europe and Central Europe is toward these nationalist leaders, populist forces, anti-immigrant sentiment -- that is what has been successful in politics. She was against all those things. Why was that so popular?

GM: Yes. She is against this. And she was very open and she was criticized by the way by this. And I don't want to say that we do not have such politicians. They attacked her. But she was more persuasive. The share of people -- active people, active citizens -- which disagreed with these extremists, they supported Zuzana Caputova. In the second round she defeated her rival Mr. Maros Sefcovic who is a vice chairperson of European Commission. He is also a mainstream politician. But he tried to position himself as a more conservative politician. Zuzana Caputova was criticized that is too much for immigration, that she's too liberal, that she's in favour of same-sex marriages, for adoption by homosexual couple. So she was under fire by the conservative establishment. And in these circumstances, nevertheless, she won. She succeeded to attract voters not only of liberal orientation but also moderate conservatives. And people in many regions of the country voted for her.

CO: And now she is the new president is Slovakia. I mean she's never run for public office before. She was new to politics, but not new to being engaged in the political system. What was she best known for before she took the stage to run for president?

GM: Well she is a relatively known in community of civic activist -- NGO community. She started to work as an advocate for ordinary people. She was involved in the struggle against the market business with the waste in one locality and she won -- she won as leader of this fight and she gave people who were involved in this fight hope that it's possible from the side of civil society to reach such results. So she became quite qualified to know we know how state institutions are working, what are the institutional structures, and she presented a very clear position concerning Slovakia's place in communities of western democratic countries.

CO: But in terms of the region in which Slovakia is -- which is tending toward these populist governments, what would be Slovakia's relationship with Hungary and Poland who are bordering on Slovakia -- how will she relate to them? How will they relate to her?

GM: You are right that there are some disturbing trends in development of some countries around Slovakia. Zuzana Caputova is giving an example that pro-liberal and democratic politicians can attract enough social support to be elected in the highest constitutional position. There are some social factors which are encouraging extremist and populist politicians to be more active. But the election of Zuzana Caputova I think shows that civil society is capable to install barriers for extremist and populist politics.

CO: Very interesting. Mr. Meseznikov thank you.

GM: Thank you very much. It was my big pleasure.

JD: Grigorij Meseznikov is the director of the Institute for Public Affairs -- an independent think tank in Slovakia. We reached him in Bratislava.

[Music]

Desiree Siemens

JD: A hospital in Grand Prairie, Alberta, is experiencing a baby boom. And while normally that would be given for any hospital with a maternity department -- this one is a little different because the baby boom is happening in the medical and stroke unit at Queen Elizabeth Two hospital where nine nurses were all pregnant at the same time. Desiree Siemens is one of them. She spoke with Mark Connelly, host of "Edmonton AM" about the extreme coincidence.

SOUNDCLIP

DESIREE SIEMENS: I am due on May 22nd.

MARK CONNELLY: Oh! Not too far away then. Okay.

DESIREE SIEMENS: No. We are nearing the end.

MARK CONNELLY: So when did you first realize so many of your colleagues were pregnant?

DESIREE SIEMENS: Well I was kind of among of the sooner ones so it wasn't that crazy when I found out I was. But then, the more and more just kept adding on and adding on -- and it's like well why not? We have already got six -- might as well have seven. And now we're at nine.

MARK CONNELLY: Is it something in the water up there or was just everybody in a good mood at the same time?

DESIREE SIEMENS: [Chuckles] Everybody was bored and in a good mood I guess. I don't know. We keep joking that it's the water cooler. And it's kind of funny because we're all like oh God there's something in the water -- it is the water cooler for sure. And then one day we come up and there's a big sign on the water cooler saying it's broken and out of order. And now it's been replaced. So definitely somebody wanted to end the cycle for sure. [Laughter]

MARK CONNELLY: Now what's it like working with other women who are going through the same sort of thing?

DESIREE SIEMENS: It's really really crazy like we get so many comments from patients because there's pregnant people there every single day. They're like, oh my goodness! Like what's going on here? And there's a lot of support though. All the other staff is like really willing to take one for the team and you know help the pregnant mamas so it's really awesome.

MARK CONNELLY: Yeah. Whoever's the administrator who's going to have to schedule everybody's mat leave must be going crazy though.

DESIREE SIEMENS: [Laughs] Yes. We've got a lot of new grads coming up so hopefully that will help though.

MARK CONNELLY: And what is the range -- like how pregnant is everybody?

DESIREE SIEMENS: All of us including the two girls that have already had their babies were all pregnant at least within the same nine months. So everybody from start to finish has been pregnant at the same time at one point.

JD: That was Desiree Siemens -- one of nine pregnant nurses at Queen Elizabeth Two hospital in Grand Prairie, Alberta. She was speaking with CBC's "Edmonton AM."

[Music]

Bill Heine

JD: Back in 1986, residents of New High Street in Oxford, UK, were shocked to see one of their neighbours had done some unauthorised renovations. And you can't blame them really. Bill Heine had not just built a fence or a skylight -- he had installed a giant shark on his roof. Bill Heine was a legend in Oxford. He was a broadcaster, a cinema owner, and a playful provocateur. Mr. Heine died Tuesday. He was 74-years-old. His fiberglass shark is indeed big -- 7.6 metres, about 25 feet. And it is pretty realistic. It looks like it violently smashed through his roof -- scattering shingles everywhere. And it wasn't just a design statement. In 1990, Arthur Black -- host of CBC's "Basic Black" -- spoke with Mr. Heine about the monster in his attic.

SOUNDCLIP

ARTHUR BLACK: Bill when most people want to liven up the neighbourhood they plant a few lilacs -- they don't drop a shark through their roof.

BILL HEINE: Well I thought when I bought this house -- you know I went through such hell just to buy the house. It's miserable buying a house in England. You have to go through the banks and the insurance agencies and the building societies. They are a bunch of sharks swimming around and all of these little ponds. And I decided well why buy a house and then just paint the door red. You know why not do something with a little bit more bite to it. And that's where we got the idea of maybe making a comment not just about bringing art out into the open but also about some of the things that were happening. I bought the house in '86 -- that was in April of 1986. And on the day I bought the house that was when the Americans bombed Tripoli. And so the very day when I was sitting in the house for the first time I saw on the television images of houses just like mine in quiet little suburban streets being blown to bits. And I just wanted to make a comment on just really how safe are we when we close our doors and close our curtains and eat Marmite and watch the television. I mean can we really pretend anymore to be apart from all the things that are going around.

ARTHUR BLACK: Bill it's probably my linear mind at work but why wouldn't you -- if you wanted to make that comment -- why wouldn't you have a bomb going halfway through? Why a shark?

BILL HEINE: Because then people could look at it and say oh yes we know what that is -- it's a bomb. And they could dismiss it. But a shark that is a piece of art -- and we've turned the house into a piece of art altogether. The house itself the plinth, and the shark is coming out of it -- well together the shark and the house may make a comment.

JD: Mr. Heine said most of his neighbours had come around. But the local authorities were still perturbed. At the time he'd been fined thousands of pounds for installing the shark without permission. He was not however overly concerned.

SOUNDCLIP

ARTHUR BLACK: You're being fined but obviously they haven't ordered you to take it down yet.

BILL HEINE: No it's one of the wonderful aspects of the English law that they can huff and puff but they're really stuck when it comes to doing things because there are many courts here and one of them is a legal court the other is a court of public opinion and the authorities know that they're a bit hamstrung if I can throw a few clichés around. But they're stuck on this one and they don't dare order me to take it down yet. They're going to decide in the city council meeting sometime this month whether or not they'll finally get their harpoons out and make the shark come down. I very much doubt that they will. I think it's got too much public support.

JD: That was the late Bill Heine speaking with Arthur Black on CBC Radio back in 1990. Well in 1992, the British secretary of state for the environment, Michael Heseltine, issued a final ruling on the so-called "Headington shark." Mr. Heseltine dismissed one of the local council’s argument. He wrote: "the first concern is simple" proliferation with sharks (and heaven knows what else) crashing through roofs all over the city. This fear is exaggerated. In the five years since the shark was erected, no other examples have occurred. Any system of control must make some small place for the dynamic, the unexpected, the downright quirky. I therefore recommend that the Headington shark be allowed to remain." And remain it does, to this day. His son bought the house in 2016. It is now an AirBnB. Bill Heine who has a much loved Oxford eccentric, broadcaster, and cinema owner died Tuesday. He was 74-years-old.

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April 4, 2019 Episode Transcript

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