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The AIH Transcript for May 25, 2021

Hosts: Carol Off and Chris Howden

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello. I'm Carol Off.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I'm Chris Howden. This is “As It Happens”.

[Music: Theme]

CH: Tonight:

CO: Emergency unpreparedness. Canada's Auditor General says that, for more than a decade, experts warned the government that it wasn't ready to fight a pandemic, but those warnings were not heeded.

CH: The busts creating a boom. The head of an LGBTQ-rights organization in Ghana tells us last week's arrest of 21 activists is only bolstering the country's gay rights movement.

CO: Saving grace. An Alberta man took a risk going over an embankment to rescue a driver who had lost control -- and even though he's now in hospital, he's positive he did the right thing.

CH: No fit state UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson's former aide, Dominic Cummings, expressed incredulity about the incompetence of the UK's response to COVID -- which he and Mr Johnson helped lead.

CO: In all caps, no caps. A major baseball hat company issues brand new themed team caps -- and immediately retracts them because they were so disastrous, they really messed with your head.

CH: And... Papa needs a brand new bag. In Scotland, there are concerns that the sporran is an endangered accessory -- but one maker of the traditional leather pouches says he is still in the sack race.

CH: “As It Happens”, the Wednesday edition. Radio that appreciates a true kilty pleasure.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: AG Report: Pandemic Response, Dominic Cummings Testimony, Alberta Rescue

AG Report: Pandemic Response

Guest: Karen Hogan

CH: Canada's Auditor General says the Canadian government ignored warnings that it was not ready for a pandemic. This afternoon in Ottawa, Auditor General Karen Hogan released reports on 2 aspects of Canada's pandemic response. One found that the Public Health Agency of Canada failed to act on more than a decade worth of internal audits, showing that country's National Emergency Strategic Stockpile didn't have enough personal protective equipment. The other found that Indigenous Services Canada didn't know what Indigenous communities needed -- and struggled to respond. We reached Auditor General Karen Hogan in Ottawa.

CO: Auditor General Hogan, how serious was the shortfall in the national emergency stockpile of personal protective equipment?

KAREN HOGAN: So, in our audit on securing personal protective equipment and medical devices, we found that the national emergency strategic stockpile was just not ready to support the response to a pandemic. This is because the Public Health Agency of Canada had not addressed long-standing issues that it'd known since 2010 with its I.T. system and the practices that were used to manage and operate the strategic stockpile.

CO: So would have known, could have known, should have known? I mean, was this something that the government was responsible for actually knowing that this was the case?

KH: Well, the agency had two internal audits that had highlighted significant weaknesses, as I said, in how they managed and operated the stockpile. And then they did a follow up on it in 2013. While some progress had been made, some of the significant matters still had not been addressed. And during our audit, we found that those same issues still remain. So they didn't know how much should be in the stockpile for a public health emergency. They had not established what that baseline should be. They knew they had deficiencies with their inventory management system. They weren't tracking the expiry dates of items. And then hence, couldn't take action when needed. And so what we were told by officials and what we saw in internal documents that a lot of these issues were because of budget limitations over the years.

CO: So that was the reason why they actually knew this was the case because they had those previous audits going back more than 10 years, but they didn't have the budgets for it?

KH: Well, that was the main reason that... that we found and that they... that officials gave to us, that they couldn't complete the needs assessment, that they made limited acquisitions because of budget constraints, and that their business case to replace their I.T. system had been put on pause just before the pandemic.

CO: Was there good evidence to say that this something like this, what we're going... we've gone through in this past year, more than a year, that this was something that could happen and we needed to be prepared for it? Did they know that?

KH: Well, I think anecdotally, everyone knew that, you know, a pandemic was likely. And when you look at, you know, the medical evidence there... are many authorities that would have said that every country should be prepared for a significant health crisis at the national level. I don't think any country, however, was prepared to deal with the pandemic of the magnitude that we are living now. But what we found was that the national emergency strategic stockpile should have been better prepared. In fact, should have been better prepared and needs to learn from these lessons so that we can be better prepared as a country for the next health crisis.

CO: So no one, I guess, could have known the magnitude of the crisis that we've just faced. But were they even prepared for a lesser crisis?

KH: Well, I guess that's a difficult thing to assess, right? They were supposed to have done a needs assessment to establish that baseline for a significant public health emergency. And when you think about what the national emergency strategic stockpile is for, it's meant to be the last stop for provinces and territories. So each province and territory is supposed to have its own stockpile that they turn to in emergencies. And when the need is just so great, they can turn to the federally managed national strategic stockpile. So you have to consider that by the time a province or territory is coming to the federal government, it's a pretty significant health crisis. So establishing that baseline is really the first step in making sure the stockpile is ready to go forward.

CO: When the pandemic first hit, we spoke to frontline workers who were desperate for PPE, as you know. the prime minister and the cabinet told them, told Canadians, told Canada they had everything that was needed. So was that not true?

KH: Well, what we found is that there were some initial requests received from provinces and territories dating back to February and up to about mid-March of 2020 that were not addressed fully by the strategic stockpile. In fact, very little of the requests were responded to. What we did see was that the government quickly reacted and adjusted during pandemic. And the public health agency of Canada moved to a bulk procurement process that was led by Public Service and Procurement Canada, which allowed them to purchase large amounts of personal protective equipment is a very highly competitive market where, you know, the global demand was so high, and at times, the supply just couldn't keep up with it. So we did see a good reaction and a response, and it continued to evolve and get better as the pandemic moved along.

CO: I want to ask you about another area you looked at, which is how indigenous populations in Canada were served, very vulnerable populations. How... how ready was Indigenous Services Canada to face this crisis?

KH: Well, I guess I to qualify what we saw in Indigenous Services Canada as a good news, bad news story, so while their own stockpile, you know, wasn't following their own guidelines, they were lucky in that some of the requests for significant amounts of personal protective equipment came once that bulk procurement had been started at the federal level. So what we did see as the good news was that Indigenous Services Canada delivered personal protective equipment to communities quickly, in average, about 10 days, which is very good when you think about the logistics, when some of these communities are very remote and isolated. But the bad news side of the story was that despite being able to increase the pipeline of health care workers for these communities, Indigenous Services Canada failed to respond to 52 per cent of the extra requests for nurses and paramedics.

CO: Is your overall sense that the government has learned lessons as to why we went into this pandemic so unprepared and that we wouldn't go into another one like this?

KH: Well, I hope that the government has learned some lessons from the response to the pandemic. I think being reactive to a situation isn't the best way to approach it. Being better prepared is what we need. So I hope that the government recognizes the importance of investing in things that people don't see, you know, whether that be an I.T. system that supports an important program. Whether it be better equipping the national stockpile with items like gloves and masks, or finding a long-term solution for health care workers in Indigenous communities. I do believe that the government needs to recognize that it needs to be better prepared for the next emergency.

CO: All right. Thank you for speaking with us, Auditor General.

KH: Oh, it was my pleasure. Thank you for having me.

CH: Karen Hogan is Canada's Auditor General. We reached her in Ottawa.

[music: shark rock]

Dominic Cummings Testimony

Guest: Rob Watson

CH: Dominic Cummings is admitting he didn't tell the truth. But he's telling the truth this time. About not having told the truth. Today, the former chief aide to UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson testified before parliamentary committees examining the government's COVID-19 response. And the televised testimony included some pretty astonishing admissions.

SOUNDCLIP

DOMINIC CUMMINGS: It is completely crazy that I should have been in such a senior position, in my personal opinion. I'm not smart. I’ve not built great things in the world. It's just... it's completely crackers that someone like me should have been in there. Just the same as it’s crackers that Boris Johnson was in there. And that the choice at the last election was Jeremy Corbyn. It's also the case that there are wonderful people inside the civil service that are brilliant, brilliant officials all over the place. But the system tends to weed them out from senior management jobs. And the problem in this crisis was very much lions led by donkeys over and over again.

CH: Boris Johnson's former aide Dominic Cummings, testifying before British parliamentary committees today. To date, the pandemic has claimed more than 128,000 lives in the U.K., which has Europe's highest official death toll. And after seven hours of testimony from Mr. Cummings, the country's citizens -- and the world -- have a slightly clearer picture as to why. Rob Watson is a political correspondent with the BBC's World Service. We reached him in London.

CO: Rob, how astonishing was it to hear Dominic Cummings refer to himself and to Boris Johnson as donkeys leading lions?

ROB WATSON: Well, it was astonishing. And I think it's a really well-chosen clip if you don't mind me saying, Carol, because he spoke for seven hours. And that clip really sums it up. It sums up a truly astonishing attack on the government. Astonishing because it's incredibly wide in the sense that you heard it there. He wasn't just attacking his former political master, Boris Johnson, but the whole sort of governance system. And astonishing because of who it came from. I mean, let's not forget that from 2016 onwards, in the successful Brexit campaign that they fought together, Dominic Cummings and Boris Johnson have pretty much been joined at the hip. So to have this incredible indictment of the entire kind of system of government in the U.K. was quite striking.

CO: And as you point out, this all the more shocking because we know... we know that he was sort of the well, the strategic genius or evil sorcerer, depending on who you ask, behind Brexit. And so for him to describe the entire civil service in this way, how... how... how are people responding to that in the U.K.?

RW: Well, there are two sorts of responses. There are those who say it's a pretty chilling insight into the nature of Mr. Johnson as a politician. I mean, the other camp sort of represented by the government and its supporters has come on this as sour grapes. They've had a falling out. You know, if he really thought that things were so wrong in government, why didn't Mr. Cummings, if he was that powerful, do something about it?

CO: But to describe the public service as... and the cabinet, I guess, of Boris Johnson as sort of incompetent at best and mediocre at worst. To describe it that way is one thing, but to say astonishing things such as tens of thousands of people died who didn't need to die, that is really disturbing and shocking. And so where is he... Where is he bringing that from when he describes some of the background of why he makes that claim?

RW: OK, so if I was to split his critique, it's... it's... it's in two, really, Carol. So the one is his kind of overarching critique of the whole government system, that it didn't really figure out until March exactly what was going on, what exactly the pandemic was, what coronavirus was, but his the second part of his critique is that by September, when that when the infection rates were going up again after lockdown was eased in the British summer, all of these scientists, all of the advisors went to, Mr. Johnson and said, hey, you got to lockdown. And at that point, he said, no, I don't want to. So this was in September. I don't believe in Lockdowns. And it's at that point that Mr. Cummings says that essentially tens of thousands of people died needlessly who didn't need to if Mr. Johnson had listened to sensible advice.

CO: So in some cases, he's saying that they just… Boris Johnson was just deciding for himself, and he wasn't listening. And then other times he describes the absolute utter chaos within the cabinet, we're just... we're including moments when suddenly they get a request from the United States to bomb the Middle East. It's frightening to... to realize what was going on within those war rooms during the time when they should have been very focussed on this pandemic.

RW: And you might add, Carol, just, you know, from the sublime to the ridiculous, but on that same day, the prime minister's fiancee was worried about some unpleasant reporting of the dog that they'd adopted. So clearly a pretty crazy day. But I think that... that the way to get to, you know, to sort of map it out for everyone is that this is very much in two parts what Dominic Cummings is talking about. There’s that sort of general chaos. And that bit, he's sort of saying that was bad, but you can't really blame the prime minister for that. Where he really sticks the knife in, and the prime minister has to say, OK, so you could forgive the prime minister for being fairly hopeless in March, but you couldn't forgive his later decisions because by later in the year, the scientists knew what the pandemic was and that they knew that there was an alternative to just letting it rip through society.

CO: There was also the questions of Dominic Cummings credibility. Because we will remember that during that strict lockdown, he says that he was out breaking those rules because he was testing his eyesight by driving around in the family car. That other things have led people to believe that he doesn't have much credibility. So does he have a problem to being believed at this point?

RW: I mean, it's certainly true that one has to caveat his appearance by saying he is someone who’s had mother, a sort of Shakespearean falling out with with Boris Johnson. And to that extent, of course, people will raise questions about his testimony. But I think, you know, in a way, what he said chimes with an awful lot of other accounts of the government's mishandling of the crisis that have come from assorted pieces by journalists and one particular book. And the fact that he's critical of his own role, I think, sort of adds to sort of the sense that maybe Mr. Cummings's account [chuckling] is pretty close to the mark.

CO: So... so just because he might have... this might be payback to Boris Johnson doesn't mean it's not true?

RW: Exactly. I mean, that's a very good... that's a very neat way of putting it. Just because they're not friends [chuckling] doesn't mean to say he's not telling it like it is.

CO: [chuckling] Well, and as startling as it is, I just wonder, in the end, what is the value of this testimony? How does it... does it help with any lessons learned?

RW: I mean, I think it is immensely important. And I'm sure historians will look at what he had to say. But I mean, if you're thinking, well, is this the end of Boris Johnson? [chuckling] Well, probably not. I mean, look, there's no doubt that testimony like this, you know, it would’ve finished off any normal prime minister and any normal government. But there's evidence that that just may not happen here. Why? For two main reasons. Number one, you know, in this country, people have already made up their minds about Boris Johnson, right? And the second reason why I think it may not do the government that... that much damage is because of something my grandma used to say, Carol. And that is in life. It's not how you start, but how you finish. And I think in this case, what that means, you know, is because people in Britain are very pleased with the way the vaccine rollout has worked, I think they tend to remember that rather than the incredibly shaky start of the pandemic and the very high death toll.

CO: From a Canadian point of view, we have to say that we [laughing] have a great deal of admiration for that vaccine rollout in your country. Thank you, Rob.

RW: Thank you.

CO Bye-bye.

RW: Bye.

CH: Rob Watson is a political correspondent with the BBC's World Service. We reached him in London.

[music: indie pop]

Alberta Rescue

Guest: Trevor Mills

CH: Trevor Mills was driving through Kootenay National Park in British Columbia when he noticed a driver who seemed to be in trouble. What followed was a daring rescue -- in which Mr. Mills himself would end up in the hospital with serious injuries. We reached Trevor Mills at the Foothills Medical Centre in Calgary.

CO: Trevor, first of all, how are you doing?

TREVOR MILLS: Well, I'm doing OK. It's been three weeks here just about now that I've been in the hospital on the mend. And the stuff here at Foothills has been wonderful in taking care of me and getting me back to somewhat healthy, I guess.

CO: Right. What kinds of injuries did you actually sustain?

TM: I've broke my pelvis. I had some internal bleeding, broke some ribs recently, bruised my heart and lungs, and I think that's it.

CO: Wow! This is a lot for you to deal with. And the story is extraordinary. I just want you to take us back to May 6th, when you're on the road. And so, at what point did you realize that there was something amiss?

TM: As I was coming through Kootenay Park, I noticed a big cloud of dust, and there were several vehicles on the road at that time. And there was one SUV that had pulled back up onto the highway but was going southbound in the same direction, but ahead of me. And he seems fairly erratic, highway speed going into the gravel on the side of the road and cutting back hard and slowing down to like 50 kilometres an hour and speeding up in a couple of occasions, almost head-on collision into other vehicles coming northbound.

CO: And were you able to... to notify the RCMP that this was going on?

TM: Unfortunately not. So about the last 25 kilometres, before you get to Radium Hot Springs, you come down a long hill. The turns become tighter, and the hill becomes steeper, and even when you're paying attention, that highway sometimes can be difficult. So I was very concerned that he was going to find himself in a bad spot along that stretch. So I stayed, you know, a couple of hundred yards back, just stay with him and kept calling and calling and calling to try and get somebody. But no reception, still. Unfortunately, at that time, we come around one corner. He lost control and went over the left side of the ravine and down a 100 or 150-foot embankment.

CO: Yikes! OK, just... what did you decide to do, and how did you decide to do that?

TM: Really wasn't much deciding, I don't feel. I feel like decisions like that are ingrained in you from a youth and how you're brought up and things. So I instantly pulled over to the right by the runaway road, put my four-ways on immediately. I'd want to say run down the hill because it's too deep to run down the hill… of steep. But I somehow got down there very quickly. And I was able to talk to the driver.

CO: So he was still in the vehicle? And was he trapped?

TM: No, actually, he... he had sheared off two big trees when he went in. And he was pointing straight down the hill, but it was, you know, as deep as we were, the hill continues on -- the ravine -- very, very deep. And I basically told him, you know, you're probably going to have to get out here as his vehicle started sliding up a little closer, and it looked like his vehicle would slide straight down the hill. So I thought it was OK. So I reached out to help him. When I did, the vehicle rolled over at an angle and, unfortunately, cut the whole right side of my body.

CO: The car rolled over on top of you?

TM: Yeah. And continued to go down into the ravine.

CO: Oh, my gosh! So you had him out of the car. The two of you were there, and then the car continued down. And so was he badly injured as well? Or just you?

TM: Just me.

CO: All right. So you had some people that you were... up above that were trying to get some help, I guess, at this point?

TM: Yes, when the trucker pulled over, he was able to radio for police and fire and rescue. And so they started showing up, and I want to say it happened around 6:30. They managed to get me up the hill around 8:00 that night.

CO: How much pain were you in?

TM: Well, I wasn't able to get any pain medication during that time, so I was in a substantial amount of pain.

CO: Did you have any communication with the driver?

TM: Very brief. I was trying to focus on breathing and thinking about my... my wife, Rochelle, my son and daughter, Taizé and Brinley. I was doing what I needed to do to take care of myself, to make sure I made it out there, because, at one point, I really didn't feel as though that may be a possibility.

CO: The RCMP say that the driver refused to provide blood samples, and they've now launched a criminal investigation into impaired driving. What would you say to him if you could?

TM: You know, alcoholism, showing up on the roads, obviously, is the last thing that any of us need, want or deserve, but there's probably a larger underlying issue there. And I think, you know, from somebody that's had alcoholism in their family, it would be very easy to get mad and, yeah, you're drunk, and you're drinking, and you shouldn't be or whatever. But the realistic thing is that we're all dealing with that in one way or another, or have one way or another. And if you haven't, you're very fortunate.

CO: You are a very understanding man, Trevor. [chuckle] But you mentioned your kids. You're thinking about your kids and... and wanting to survive for them. Did you have at any time regret or wish you hadn't done this?

TM: I know you made the right decision. However, in looking at the cost of my decision at this point, I have obviously gone back and forth, whether it was the right decision to make or not? You know, I believe it was the right thing. That's what was ingrained for me when I was a kid. And, you know, my grandfather, you know, was a fireman, deputy fire chief, fire chief in Fredericton, Brunswick. And I believe that everything that he instilled in me is basically what carried through on... on the 6th of May, I guess it was.

CO: Trevor, I think they're probably wanting to take you away for that surgery that you got to have. And I hope you make a full recovery. And I hope you realize you have tremendous admiration from everyone who knows this story.

TM: Well, thank you very much for the call.

CO: Bye.

TM: Mmm, bye.

CH: Trevor Mills was injured trying to help a fellow driver who crashed in Kootenay National Park. We reached him in Calgary.

[music: banjo]

Bad New Era Caps

CH: Sometimes, your boss will try to inject some spontaneity into a brain-storming session. "Just have fun with it!" she'll say. "There are no bad ideas!" Two sentences, two lies. No one is having fun with it, and all of the ideas will be bad. But it's just an exercise, of course: she's not actually going to use any of your ideas for the big project. But what if, for some reason, she used every single one of your terrible ideas? Look, it's one possibility for what happened at New Era. Yesterday, the company -- which is an official supplier of Major League Baseball -- unveiled its new line of "Local Market" baseball caps. And then, just hours later, the company shut down sales -- and re-veiled the caps. They were re-veiled because they were reviled. For just a few examples: the Kansas City Royals cap featured a random picture of a saxophone, and a pig. The Cincinnati Reds cap features a bowl of bage sludge that's apparently chili. The Arizona Diamondbacks cap has a burrito on the back, or an ancient, cursed scroll -- it's impossible to tell. And when you think Atlanta, you think: UFO with an alien inside. That's why it's smack-dab on the front of the Braves cap. And the Toronto Blue Jays cap proudly bears a map of...a location, and a striking brown-and-beige rendering of a dish that screams "Bonjour, je suis de Toronto": poutine. It's nothing short of a total cap-tastrophe. So hats off, New Era. Hats off forever.

[music: electronica]

Part 2: Ghana LGBTQ Rights, Scotland Sporran Maker

Ghana LGBTQ Rights

Guest: Robert Akoto Amoafo

CH: There are mounting calls in Ghana tonight to "Release the 21." That's the hashtag that's being shared on social media, after 21 people were arrested in the west African country last week and charged with "unlawful assembly." They were taking part in a conference that involved training paralegals to support LGBTQ people in the country. But then, police arrived. A police spokesperson has said they were arrested for, quote, "advocating" LGBTQ activities. Robert Akoto Amoafo is president of the Alliance for Equality and Diversity in Ghana. Today, we reached him in Pretoria, South Africa.

CO: Robert, you know much about the 21 people who are detained, how they're doing, what conditions they are being detained in?

ROBERT AKOTO AMOAFO: Yes, so the 21 people are being detained in four different cells. And currently, the LGBT community or LGBT organizations in Ghana are trying to ensure that they have the best care and the welfare services they need as a community and ensure that they are safe and even as they go through this process. So physically, they look good, but mentally, we know they have a lot that they are going through.

CO: So can you tell us a bit about these 21 people, who they are and what they were doing when they were arrested?

RAA: So they are LGBT marriage advocates and LGBTQ lesbian, bisexual, queer women advocates who were having a paralegal training, basically to ensure that they implore the community to be able to resist human rights abuse. So they are advocates. And there's an intersex person who is also needs as an intersex advocate who works with intersex people on the team. So there's a variety of people, including participants who were part of the training and then key advocates who are working with these people.

CO: But so this was a private conference. These were... these people were there getting the seminar, getting briefed. And so how... how were the police notified about them? How did the police get involved,

RAA: According to the police, they were tipped off by some community member within it in the space where these people were having their meeting. And while the action was going on, we requested some of our colleagues who were there to be taking videos of what was happening. And we realized that it was not just the police going there to find out information but to lock them up in their conference room, wait for a vehicle to come and take them away. And so it was not just a matter of going there to find out about what was happening or an investigation, but it was sort of a violent way of arresting people because they had a prejudicial thinking of what was going on there. And then the idea that if... if it's anything with relation to LGBT, then they need to act in a particular way that would be able to arrest people and incarcerate them.

CO: There's some reports that there were journalists who arrived and started to film and to take information. What... what does that do? Does that endanger the people who were at the conference who are associated with the LGBTQ community in Ghana?

RAA: Yes, that's a big threat to them, because, of course, for some of them who left home, whether they are gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender or whatever it may be, I'm not sure they can go home comfortably again, which means that we need to find shelter, find all sorts of support for these people. So a lot of the things that are going on. Even if the people are released today, there's a need for us to arrange certain services for the meantime for some time before these people can get into society comfortably. Even it would take some of them to move from their communities and going to new communities because they may not be able to exist within the community where they used to live before. But we are aware that they are going for a bail hearing on Friday. And so we will be in court on Friday to prevent any sort of thing that will happen with the idea of getting these people's pictures taken off anyway.

CO: What are the charges they're facing?

RAA: So currently, the police released a statement saying that they charged them with unlawful assembly and with the idea that they have the reason why they're saying unlawful assembly is that they had an intent to promote and… and spread homosexuality. So that is what has come out of the police [a rooster calls] and the charge that they put on them.

CO: There's a real, very essential contradiction here, isn't it? Because the police spokesman said that Ghana's laws guarantee the right to freedom of expression and the freedom of assembly, but they say freedom of assembly, unless it's unlawful assembly, which is what they're calling this. So it's either free to assemble, or it's not, right?

RAA: So we have some part of our Criminal Offences Act that mentions that there are terms of unlawful assembly. But if you clearly interpret the law, whatever charges that you've given to them does not fit into that discrimination in the criminal act of unlawful assembly. It seems that if the people are meeting with an intent to cause harm or to cause danger or they're the meeting of these people causes danger to the community in which they are, or to protest, and the protest will cause any harm to anybody, then that can be viewed as unlawful assembly. We don't have any law that says that gathering to discuss homosexuality is a crime. For me, I have always said that if that is the case, then a lot of people need to be arrested, including religious leaders, traditional leaders, including even some of our government officials because they have several locations where these people have met in the name of discussing homosexuality.

CO: We should just remind people that it is, I guess, a possible penalty of 25 years in prison for anyone found to be in a same-sex relationship in Ghana. And so this is... this is work that these people were doing to try and help those in Ghana understand their rights. What are the chances that you'll be able to get them out on bail?

RAA: So currently, we are still working with our lawyers and also working with a lot of international support to ensure that the government sees a need to intervene in this case and see how we can work with the judiciary to see this case as something that is unnecessary. And I'm hopeful it is something that's against the law in itself. And we have advised... our lawyer has advised our colleagues to collaborate with the police, with the so-called investigation they are doing to show really that whatever they were doing was not against the law. And it's something that was just to protect the human rights. That, a lot of the time, the police themselves fail to do. So we are still working with them to ensure that by the time we go for the next hearing for the bail, we'll hear good news of getting them out on bail -- at least before we start the substantive case.

CO: we will be following what happens with these 21 people, Robert. And I appreciate you speaking with us. Thank you.

RAA: Thank you so much for having me.

CH: Robert Akoto Amoafo is the president of the Alliance for Equality and Diversity in Ghana, and the country's former Amnesty International director. We reached him today in Pretoria.

[music: Jazz]

Kenney reopening

CH: Alberta may fully re-open in six weeks -- but Jason Kenney says he's leaving that up to Albertans. The Premier says his government's "Open for Summer" plan depends entirely on getting shots in arms, and keeping hospitalizations down. Right now, the Premier says nearly 50 per cent of Albertans have received one dose of vaccine. And once they hit 70 per cent, everything from restaurants to gyms to the Calgary Stampede will be open for business. Here's part of what Premier Kenney told reporters today.

SOUNDCLIP

JASON KENNEY: Today, we are truly near the end of this thing. We're leaving the darkest days of the pandemic behind and stepping into the warm light of summer. With Alberta's “Open for Summer” plan, a three-stage plan, we'll see all COVID-19 health restrictions lifted in only a few weeks time, as long as Albertans keep doing the right things for just a little while longer. That means backyard barbecues, dream weddings, family reunions, concerts, festivals, birthday parties, dinner gatherings and, yes, the Calgary Stampede will be back on. In short, it means that finally getting back to normal. And I think it means the best Alberta summer ever. Starting this Friday, May 28th, Stage One will see the capacity limit for worship services increased to 15 per cent of fire code occupancy across the province. On June the 1st, the rest of Stage One will kick in. This means larger outdoor social gatherings. Retail capacity will be able to increase to 15 per cent. Hair salons and other personal and wellness services will be able to start up by appointment. Outdoor sports and limited outdoor patio dining will also be allowed. And let me just say a word of gratitude. I know that many invested in patios to provide service this spring. We regret that because of the spike, there had to be an interruption. But we'll be back to a bright future for the hospitality sector as of this coming Monday. Stage One is good news, but Stage One is just the start. From there, we’ll be moving to stage two a couple of weeks after. Sixty per cent of eligible Albertans have received their first vaccine dose. Libraries and movie theatres will reopen, Albertans can return to the gym, and large public outdoor gatherings can resume. We are optimistic that we'll enter Stage Three by early July. Events like K Days and Calgary Stampede can proceed at that point with full participation. You'll be able to visit with family, friends and neighbours, both outdoors and indoors. Restaurants and retail will be wide open, and there will be no capacity limits or gathering restrictions at that point. This is our chance. Alberta's “Open for Summer” plan puts the power in the hands of each and every Albertan. Now is our time, Alberta. If large numbers of Albertans keep getting vaccinated and keep following all the public health orders and guidelines in the meantime, we'll reopen in just a matter of weeks. If you don't like the current restrictions, and who does? The best thing you can do to end them is to get vaccinated. It will help to keep you and your loved ones safe, and we'll stick it to COVID so we can all get our freedoms back fully.

CH: That was Alberta Premier Jason Kenney speaking at a press conference today.

[music: banjo]

Scotland Sporran Maker

Guest: Greg Whyte

CH: In the Scottish Highlands a few hundred years ago, men began wrapping a wool tartan around their waist instead of wearing trousers. Kilts were warm, relatively waterproof, and breezy. Only problem: no pockets. Enter the sporran, a leather pouch that was fashionable and practical. It's been part of traditional Highland dress for centuries. But now the trade behind that handcrafted accessory is in peril -- at least according to the Heritage Crafts Association. It has listed sporran making as critically endangered -- saying that only a handful of Scots are still working full-time in the trade. That includes Greg Whyte. He runs the sporran maker Margaret Morrison Limited. We reached him in Perth, Scotland.

CO: Greg, what do you think of this idea that to make sporrans part of the critically endangered list?

GREG WHYTE: A double edge, really. It's a double edge. On the one hand, yes, I do agree that we are definitely a shrinking industry. There are far fewer people involved in the industry. And it is a micro-industry. So, yes, it is correct that there are many less people working in it than there were even five years ago. On the other hand, we are a very small company, but we are in a good, strong position in ourselves. So our company is not going to disappear any time soon. But Sporran making, in general, has definitely shrunk.

CO: But so the Heritage Crafts Association, I guess they look out for these kinds of... of cottage industries that are looking like they're not going to survive. And so you... do you believe the sporran making industry actually has a future?

GW: It does have a future, yes. But it's not employing the people it used to. I mean, we, as a company, we're now down to four staff, and we were at 15 at one point. We've swallowed up a couple of other smaller companies who would have employed maybe nine or 10 people in one instance, and the other probably four or five. So these companies have closed down either through the retirement of the previous owners or basically going into liquidation. So in overall numbers, that's quite a few people less working in the industry than used to. So it is shrinking. But, you know, we will survive. We will be here for a long time only because we're a family business. You know, luckily, my son and daughter have come into the business. My wife and I work in it. And a son and daughter left school. And they... they have, I would hope, they've got a relatively secure future ahead of them.

CO: I'm sure everyone has seen a sporran, but may not know what... what it is, what part of the kilt and the accoutrements that it represents. Just maybe just describe for people what exactly a sporran is?

GW: OK then! In very quick terms, a sporran was traditionally, I mean, many, many years ago, centuries ago, was basically just a leather bag or a pouch that was worn around the waist to carry whatever you had, whether it was... whether it was a day's rations or a few coins if you had them. It's developed into... into part of our national dress in a much more I suppose it's more functional than the decorative. We, you know, we still use it to carry well, now we need to carry our mobile phones, keys, wallet, all that sort of thing. But it is... it's part of an overall kilt outfit. You know, as worn by many of your kilted regiments. You know, you have 23 kilted regiments in Canada. We've supplied many of them. And we still supply the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. Just recently, actually with sporrans. So it's decorative, but it's functional.

CO: And just now... it's made. You mentioned leather, but what kind of materials go into making a sporran?

GW: Sporran making sits in between many other crafts. It's a bit of saddlery. It's a bit of taxidermy, metalwork, and jewellery. So... so basically, a sporran can be made from... from leather being either cow hide... We use all sorts of skins, you know. For the Australian sporrans, we've used kangaroo skins. They’re adorned with metalwork on the top. And again, they'll be decorated however the wearer wants it to look, whether it's traditional with thistles or things like that, or more Celtic orientation. So that... that's the basic components, if you like.

CO: We have... we've done interviews with people who are in the... the tartan business, who are making kilts, who have said that what they're up against are the cheap knockoffs, right? I mean, [chuckles] that sort of polyester kilts made in China, mass-produced in factories there.

GW: Yeah.

CO: And you can't compete with that. People think I want that... that souvenir. Is that the same with the sporran making? Are you competing with cheap knockoffs?

GW: Yes, we are up to a point, yes. We don't make two of anything. You know, two of the same thing. We... we are a bespoke company. Virtually every sporran we make is different from the next one that we make. So we're slightly intelated in that respect. However, the market is flooded with copies of what we make. We can spend weeks working with a client to design a range of sporrans for, say, a High Street shop. And as soon as it goes on our website, it's copied. There are artisans who work around the world who are extremely talented and gifted at what they do. My complaint is that instead of being design-driven, they literally just take our photographs and copy us. And that's the issue. That is the problem. That's what we're up against.

CO: Well, how can you compete with that?

GW: Well, you keep changing. You keep changing your style. So you innovate. We try and modernize. We use laser engraving techniques. We try and stay as economical as possible. So we make as good a product as we can using the best possible leathers and metalwork. But we don't try and compete with overseas pricing because we can't. So we don't try to. We just do the best job we can. And hopefully, people who buy our product understand that we've done the best we can. And that they are buying a genuine product made in Scotland by Scotts.

CO: is this call from the Heritage Crafts Association in Scotland calling for sporran making to be put on the critically endangered list, is that helpful to you? Will it raise awareness, make people perhaps want to get genuine products and turn to your company for those?

GW: Yes, I definitely agree. I do think that the Heritage Craft Association are doing a good job in highlighting that... that many traditional crafts are disappearing. You know, it's the old adage no advertising is bad advertising. So long as, you know, people are aware that what they're buying, where that comes from… and that's... that's true of every product that you buy. If you know where that comes from, you make an informed decision. If you don't know where you've come... where it's come from, you bought it from eBay, for instance, you may well be buying something that you think is made in Scotland, but it actually isn't.

CO: Is there any way to... to authenticate a real sporran?

GW: Other than looking for the maker's mark, I mean, we obviously we manufactured everything here. We... we basically embossed everything with our name, and the fact that it is real leather, that is made in Scotland. But that gets copied as well.

CO: All right, Greg. Well, I wish you luck with your business. It sounds like a lot of work and a labour of love in many respects, I'm sure.

GW: Yep, it is. Thank you for your time.

CO: All right. Take care.

GW: OK. Bye.

CH: Greg Whyte is a sporran maker who runs Margaret Morrison Limited. We reached him in Perth, Scotland.

[music: jazz]

Bad Iceberg Season

CH: Iceberg season is a bit of a bust this year. Usually, the coasts of Newfoundland and Labrador would see lots of the gentle giants drifting by. But so far, that's not happening -- and Diane Davis says people are starting to get anxious. She runs the Newfoundland Iceberg Reports Facebook group -- where 22,000 fans of big hunks of ice are waiting for news. She spoke with CBC Newfoundland and Labrador about what the season has been like so far.

SOUNDCLIP

DIANE DAVID: This year, it's just kind of one disappointment after the other because we can't get any icebergs. You know, I got all excited and posted a couple of months ago, only two months till iceberg season! And... and I posted that yesterday, I said b’ys, I don't even know if we can go current this year because there's no icebergs. If I say current posts only, nothing will happen on the page. There are icebergs. They’re off Labrador. But so far this year, I think I've had five current icebergs posted in the last two months. Two years ago, in Fogo Island, I could see one in just about every community. In 2017, there was like dozens and dozens off Fogo Island. Even last year, we drove up to St. Anthony in mid-June, and we were there for three days. We saw 19 icebergs and 13 moose in three days. And like, I'm not even getting pictures from St. Anthony this year. Last year, some of the staycationers, some of the Newfoundlanders, actually saw their first icebergs. We don't realize it if we're used to seeing them. But I mean, I met a woman a few years ago in Triton on her way to Brighton to see an iceberg for the first time in her life. And she was from Corner Brook and had never seen an iceberg. And I said, How did you know there’s one in Brighton? She said, I'm on this really good Facebook group called Newfoundland Iceberg Report. [chuckling] I was like, Oh, good! Page Works! And it actually was the picture from... from Karen Pinsent up there that actually sent me to Brighton that day. So people are disappointed that there's no icebergs around. The encouraging news is the possums are here. Just saw a couple of beautiful posts by somebody on another site, a photography site, of humpback whales. So, you know, our other summer guests are arriving, the puffins, the whales. And hopefully, that will make up for things for some of the boat tour operators.

CH: That was Diane Davis, who tracks icebergs on the Newfoundland Iceberg Reports Facebook group, speaking with CBC reporter Malone Mullin. Jason Ross of the Canadian Ice Service told CBC that while this season is disappointing, it's likely just an extreme event -- and the icebergs should be back next year.

[music: world music]

Part 3: Emotion Detection Software, Klondike Gold Rush Collection

Emotion Detection Software

Guest: Sophie Richardson

CH: In Xinjiang, China, Uyghurs are under constant surveillance. Authorities in the region gather data on residents using CCTV cameras, iris scanners, and even DNA sampling -- along with monitoring online and phone activity. China's treatment of Uyghurs has been under international scrutiny for some time -- with some countries accusing China of committing genocide. There is also evidence that Uyghurs are being used as forced labour, and that hundreds of thousands are being held in detention centres. Now, a software engineer from Xinjiang has told the BBC's "Panorama" that he installed a new camera system in some police stations, that's being used to analyze the emotions of Uyghur detainees. Sophie Richardson has seen the evidence. She's the China director for Human Rights Watch. We reached her in Washington, D.C.

CO: Sophie, first of all, what is the evidence that this new technology is being tested on Uyghurs in China?

SOPHIE RICHARDSON: Well, "Panorama" was given materials by a Chinese software engineer who had helped install these tools. And when I sat down with the program, they showed me the files that the engineer had sent to them. And it included some of these graphs and these pie charts showing how nervous or anxious these individual people were according to the tests.

CO: What does this camera system actually do? Can you describe it? Is it kind of like a lie detector?

SR: It's a little bit like a lie detector, except, I think, even less reliable or predictable. It's called emotional recognition software, and it's meant to detect, broadly speaking, whether you're happy, whether you're sad. But in this case, in these police stations across Xinjiang, the idea seems to have been that it could detect whether people were nervous and therefore suspicious, whether they looked guilty, whether they were anxious. And one aspect of, you know, the spectrum or the range of emotions the program seemed to test for did not include relaxed, happy or innocent.

CO: You mentioned Xinjiang, which is the province -- the northern province -- in China, where Uyghurs mostly live in China. And so what are they using -- what are they potentially using -- this camera system to do?

SR: Well, we think they are using this system, along with other technologies, essentially to determine or identify who they think is suspicious and then, I think, produce so-called evidence that would serve as the basis of detaining someone or actually formally prosecuting them. And part of the reason we find this work by "Panorama" so strong is that it dovetails, and indeed to some extent, draws on research that we did when we reverse-engineered an app that's used by police across the region to track behaviour. And it appears that data from that system is also deployed in this emotional recognition software, that these are all linked up. There are facial recognition cameras everywhere. You often have to pass through checkpoints or data doors. There are Wi-Fi sniffers. You know, these different kinds of sensory systems are constantly hoovering up huge amounts of data about where people are going and what they're doing, where they live, if they're where they're supposed to be. But essentially, algorithms decide which compilations of these different data streams mean that somebody might be considered suspicious by the local authorities. And it can lead to them actually being detained. But it's worth pointing out that not only are many of the behaviours perfectly legal, also, you know, the emotional recognition software is highly, highly dubious and being used in a context of near-total repression. Any Uyghurs who is brought into a police station across that region is bound to be nervous and anxious, given decades of all different forms of repression.

CO: How might this emotion, software -- emotion detect detection software -- be combined with that other data that is collected constantly about Uyghurs, their movements, their phone calls, their travels, their conversations? How might it fit in with all that that you fear?

SR: Sure, imagine that, for example, you know, a Uyghurs is walking down the street and is stopped by police because the IJOP system, this app, has flagged them as problematic. So that individual is taken to a police station, where they are additionally subjected to this kind of emotional recognition software that essentially decides just how nervous or anxious they appear to be. And that, along with this other data, are combined, we think, to flag them as being problematic. But, you know, I think it's important for people to understand that even in places like Canada or the U.S., everything from lie detector tests to different kinds of facial recognition software are highly debated, you know, in terms of their accuracy, their reliability. You know, and in China, there are none of the standard privacy protection rights or really consistently fair trial rights. And when you put all of those together in an environment where, you know, Uyghurs and other Turkic community members have virtually no rights from the beginning, and you add this kind of high-tech surveillance and assessment on top of that, you've essentially got a system that is going to produce a result that will say this person is suspicious and problematic. There really don't seem to be other outcomes possible.

CO: The BBC asked the Chinese embassy in London about the use of emotion detection software on the Uyghurs and in China. And in response, this is what they wrote. "People live in harmony, regardless of their ethnic backgrounds, and enjoy a stable and peaceful life with no restrictions to personal freedom." Which is fairly boilerplate. Do you know if China has... has... has denied that they're using this technology?

SR: They've effectively denied that they are using different kinds of technology, or to the extent that they will acknowledge it, it's to say that it's essential to keeping the region stable. And often, they will start remarks on the topic of Xinjiang by saying that there have been no acts of violence in the last couple of years. And I think we could have a long conversation about whether arbitrarily detaining a million people simply on the basis of their identity constitutes violence? It certainly does in my world. You know, and I also think that if, you know, the people in the Chinese embassy in London are so confident of the harmony in Xinjiang, there shouldn't be such resistance to allowing an independent U.N. investigation into the region. And yet, Chinese authorities keep blocking that. You know, these tools allow an already incredibly powerful government to convey to the population as a whole that their moves, their ideas, their interactions with other people can and will be known and logged. And that it can be used against them.

CO: All right. Sophie, we'll leave it there. I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

SR: Thank you.

CH: Sophie Richardson is the China director for Human Rights Watch. We reached her in Washington, D.C

[music: sad guitar]

Promo: The Menopause Manifesto

CH: In the absence of good information, we tend to rely on whatever tidbits we can get our hands on. However anecdotal and flawed. And when it comes to menopause, gynecologist Jen Gunter says there's a serious absence of good information. At least, there was. She's hoping her new book, The Menopause Manifesto, will help correct that. And she says it's motivated in part by the limited intel that was once available to her. Tomorrow, we'll be airing a feature conversation between Carol and Dr. Gunter -- who writes, quote, "My mother's menopause was volcanic, and if that was all I had to go on, I would have been quite frightened." Unquote. Here's some of what she tells Carol about that time in her life ... and what it might have heralded for her.

SOUNDCLIP

JEN GUNTER: You know, my mother struggled with, you know, some mental health issues that weren't diagnosed until much later in life. And, you know, during that time, I mean, it was like the wheels came off. And it was, you know, walking on eggshells and never knowing what to expect. And just it was a very, very frightening time in my house. You know, you just never knew when something was going to enrage her. And, you know, and she was so frustrated and angry and uncomfortable and really struggling. And, you know, at the time, I was very frightened. And looking back, you know, maybe the passage of time and also putting it in perspective with the lack of help that she would have had, you know, has, you know, maybe softened my view a little bit.

CO: You point out that sometimes women look to how their mothers went through the menopause to maybe determine how their menopause will be. But how did your own experience compare with that of your mother's?

JG: Well, you know, mine was, you know, I had some symptoms, but, you know, it... it really wasn't bad. And I don't want to downplay the severity of the symptoms, but I knew what to expect. And I really believe sort of that knowledge is really empowering. So when something's happening to your body and you don't know what's going on and you... and you go, and you seek care, and you're dismissed, that... that just adds insult to injury and makes you feel that much worse. But for me, when I was like, oh, these hot flashes are getting a little bit too much, I think maybe I need to start some... some estrogen. And so there were... I didn't have those roadblocks, those hassles, those... being dismissed. I was never once dismissed, you know. So the other thing that I had was I had decades of talking with women across the menopausal diaspora, women who had no symptoms, and women who had had severe symptoms, and those in between. And so knowing that there's the spectrum, knowing that it's not always all that and that many women are really happy in menopause, like, for example, I love not having a period. [CO chuckles] I love... you know, like we're going to go to Hawaii in July. And I love that I don't have to pack a box of pads and tampons.

CH: Jen Gunter is a gynecologist and pain medicine physician. Her new book, The Menopause Manifesto, is out this week -- and we'll be airing her feature conversation with Carol on tomorrow night's show.

[music: folk]

Environmentalist arrests

CH: Police keep arresting environmentalists -- and environmentalists keep showing up. Since last August, protesters have been obstructing logging operations in the Fairy Creek watershed -- an old-growth valley on Vancouver Island. And the blockades have continued, even after a recent court injunction ordering them to stop. Since last week, the RCMP say they've arrested 53 people. Meanwhile, today, a coalition of nine news organizations and press freedom groups announced that they're planning to take legal action to give journalists more access to the area. Alison Acker is one of the protesters. She's a 92-year-old Victoria resident and a founding member of the Raging Grannies. She told the CBC why she's fighting to preserve the last unprotected, intact old-growth forest.

SOUNDCLIP

ALISON ACKER: It was marvellous. It was a great, great time because so many people were there. I counted 40 cars. We had at least 10 people, 10 or 12 people, down for arrest. And it would have been great if there had been an arrest. Shall I tell you what happened?

GREGOR CRAIGIE: Yeah, yeah. Tell us what happened, Alison?

AA: So we toiled up this hill. [chuckling] Oh, God. [both chuckling] From the barriers, and just as we got up there, there were three little cars and three cops, and they sped down as fast as they possibly could, going past us and running away. I guess they'd seen all these seniors, and they really didn't want to deal with this lot.

GC: Oh, OK. Well, you're a pretty, pretty intimidating crew. And so why was it worth... I mean, this wasn't just, you know, a couple of minute drive or stroll somewhere in Victoria.

AA: Oh no!

GC: It took effort to get there. And why is it important to you?

AA: It's very important because the trees are the only... they're the only heritage or legacy that I can leave from BC. I'm from this island. This is an island of trees. People come to see the trees. They don't want to see them cut up into bits of four by twos. What we're doing is we're really spoiling the inheritance that we have. We don't have castles. We don't have magnificent things for people say that are old. We have 300-year-old trees. They also are our lungs. The forest is our only hope for trying to cut down on CO2. And instead of looking after our friends, etc., we're cutting them down and it's crazy!

GC: We just have a minute left, Alison. But I wonder how optimistic or not you feel after having been up there and spoken to other protesters, but also seeing police and so on and knowing that logging is carrying on in the area?

AA: Oh, I'm very optimistic. I'll tell you. This is going to spread. It's making BC look stupid to the world. And once people are able to travel, there will be lots more people going up there. And I'm quite sure that the seniors that went up with me will be there again any possible time they can.

CH: That was Alison Acker, founding member of Raging Grannies, speaking with Gregor Craigie, host of CBC Victoria's "On the Island".

[music: horns!!!!]

Klondike Gold Rush Collection

Guest: Phil Lind

CH: In the late nineteenth century, tens of thousands of people headed to Klondike, Yukon to mine for gold. Among the earliest-known prospectors was Johnny Lind, who arrived just before the Gold Rush. More than a century later, his grandson, Phil Lind, has built a collection of thousands of artifacts from that period in history -- which he has now donated to the University of British Columbia. We reached Phil Lind in Toronto.

CO: Phil, this is a huge collection that you're donating. What is the most difficult thing for you to part with?

PHIL LIND: It is a large collection. It's about 600 books of dealing with the area between 1895 and 1905, 2,000 more photos, diaries, posters, maps, promotional material from travel agencies. But I think the one I hated to leave the most was this 10 to 12-foot map that was drawn obviously by hand of the two creeks in the Klondike, Eldorado and in the Bonanza Creeks, and listing all of the people who... who owned those those claims up and down that stretch. And it's just a tremendous work of art.

CO: Wow! Your grandfather, Johnny Lind, he went to that Klondike Gold Rush. And so is he part of that map? Is his stake there?

PL: Oh, yeah, he's... he's there. He went up in 1894, before the big strike, and was mining there. And then, when he heard about it, he came down to Dawson and started buying slivers of claims. And he eventually owned one 26 above of Bonanza, which was 220,000 dollars. He paid for it. And that was half. And then 200,000 dollars in those days by August of that year. So he had to work damn hard to get that claim.

CO: And did it pay off for him? Did he... did he [chuckling] get rich?

PL: He made some... he made some money, yeah. And all those people that were on those claims in Bonanza and Eldorado made money. But most of them blew it. [chuckling] I mean, they really... they thought that the next year and the next year and the next year, it would be the same. So they said, what... why not? So one time, one person lost 50,000 dollars in those days on a hand -- 50,000 dollars in one poker hand.

CO: Good grief. And at that time, that's like I don't know what that would be in equivalent today dollars?

PL: That would be millions of dollars today.

CO: [chuckling] Jeez! And so is this... is this part of the collection? Do you have these documents? What story does your archive tell you about the gold,... the Klondike Gold Rush?

PL: All the stories sort of have the same pitch to them, the heartaches, the terrible problems they had in the... in the early days of the Gold Rush. No windows in their little cabins. And 40 below zero for three three months straight. It was... the hardships were unbelievable. But eventually, you know, the payoffs were pretty good. But, boy, they struggled. And there was very few that... that really made it. All those people that stampeded up to Dawson, there was 100,000 that started out and maybe 40,000 made it to Dawson for a variety of reasons. But they... none of those people made... made money because the guys on the creeks were the winners. And they... they were already up there as soon as the strike was made.

CO: I guess the documents reflect the difference between the way that the prospectors from the United States were different from those of Canada?

PL: They were mainly Americans up there. I mean, the big holiday in Dawson was always the Fourth of July. But the difference is the Americans were miners law people, and they took matters into their own hands. And it was pretty well the Wild West. Whereas the Canadians, you know, after the Mounties went up there, it was pretty, you know, there was a lot of law and order.

CO: Well, I guess that much has changed between the two cultures?

PL: Well, that's sort of interesting because that is... that's one of the things that I... I was... I was impacted by that there was a difference then, and there is... there's a difference now.

CO: Why did you decide to donate all your material from the Klondike Gold Rush?

PL: Well, I'm still collecting, so... but I did it because I think that we should know more about the Gold Rush. It's a great Canadian story. And somebody had to digitize it. And... and... I couldn't have everybody come to my house and see it. I had to have a public place for it to be seen. And UBC was, well... it's a BC story, too. The Canadians had to outfit in Victoria or Vancouver before they went up. And the Americans were in Seattle or Portland and San Francisco.

CO: So what... OK, now that people can have access to all this material, what do you... what can they learn from it? What do you think... what do you hope people take away from it?

PL: Well, I… I just hope that they know more about the Canadian north and... and how difficult it is to survive there. But yet, it's... it's promising, too. So it has both the despair and the… and the happiness to it.

CO: All right. Well, that's a… it's... it's going to be a great resource for a lot of people. So I thank you for that, Phil, and thanks for speaking with us.

PL: Thank you very much.

CO: Bye.

PL: Bye.

CH: Phil Lind has donated his collection of thousands of photographs, letters, books, and other documents from the Klondike Gold Rush to the University of British Columbia. Mr. Lind is in Toronto.

[music: bright piano]

Man Saves Skunk From Can

CH: A few days ago, Michael Jeffery was faced with a big decision while driving near the small town of Blewett, BC. His adrenaline was pumping. He knew he had to pull over. His heart was telling him to run to help -- but his head was telling him to run far, far away. This headline plastered on the local newspaper tells you everything you need to know about the decision he made that day. Quote "Man saves skunk from can." Mr. Jeffery told CBC's "Radio West" the rest of the story today.

SOUNDCLIP

MICHAEL JEFFERY: I see the skunk on the side of the road. And he’s like walking really awkwardly like he's kind of like stumbly an drunk. But then he's got this can on his head, so I understand why he's walking that way. He can't see anything.

SARAH PENTON: A full, like, a can on his head? Like what kind of can was it?

MJ: It was a beer can from a local brewery. He must have just been going in for a sip of something sweet and delicious. [SP chuckles] Yeah, so anyway, my heart just like goes out to the little guy. I was like, oh my God, like, I need to help him! And so I'm sitting in my car a little bit watching him. He's just outside my window. And my heart's like, oh my God, I really need to help this guy. And then my head's like, dude, you're going to get sprayed. You're going to work. You work with somebody who's, like, pretty sensitive, like... like you're not even going to be able to go to work. You're going to be offensive. Nobody’s gonna want to be near you for days. Like, how are you going to do this without getting blasted? My heart's just like, oh, I really need to... to help this guy. So I get out of my car. And in that moment, this eagle swoops down into the river that's right beside the road and, like, grabs this fish. And, you know, I'm really into ecophysiology and nature connection. So I kind of took that as an omen and a good sign. Like, this is awesome that you're committed to to help this guy because he needs it. Anyway, [SP chuckles] And then he's kind of like stumbling all over the road. He does a big circle on the road, and some car comes by and stops and looks at me and, like, looks at the skunk, and, like, shrugged his shoulders like what are you going to do with this? Then, he kind of stumbled off the side of the road and, like, tripped. And my heart’s just like, oh my God, poor little guy. And then he, like, started coming closer to me. And I just knew it was the time. So I just jumped in, like, took some bold action and got the can, pried like three-quarters of the way off his... his face as gently as I could. And the gentleman was high, so I just booked it and ran the opposite direction. And she was able to shake the can the rest of the way off. And in the time I was running, he had aimed his butthole directly at me and had his tail raised. [SP chuckles] And so he was trying to blast me, but I was far enough away, fortunately, where he didn't get me.

SP: [chuckling] So it was really stuck on there, hey?

MJ: Yeah. Well, I mean, it’s kind of over the fat part of his skull. He probably would have died.

SP: So how did it feel when you, A, realized you had done it and, B, realized you were out of spray range?

MJ: Oh, yeah. [SP chuckles] When I looked back, I just, like, let out this big woo-hoo! [SP laughs] I was so stoked. I was just so happy for both of us.

SP: [laughing] For both of you.

MJ: It just really speaks to... like, for me, I'm just like, yeah, everybody, like, just follow your heart. Like, things work out well. And people like you better when you follow your heart.

CH: That was Michael Jeffery, telling the CBC's Sarah Penton how he followed his heart to gingerly remove a beer can from the head of a skunk -- and came out smelling like a rose.

[music: show tune]

Samuel Wright Obit

CH: Sure, he was crabby. But he cared for her and so he feared for her, as she took one stunningly ill-advised risk after another -- for the sake of a love that could never last.

SOUNDCLIP

SEVERAL PEOPLE: Happy anniversary, to Fruit of the Loom guys.

SAMUEL WRIGHT: One full year for us, too! You bought these for me? How we doing?

WOMAN: Terrific!

UNDERWEAR: Our super seams keep us strong!

UNDERWEAR TWO: Our Superband waistbands keep snapping back

WOMAN: Wash after wash.

SW: You fellows really last!

UNDERWEAR: How about a bit of the grape?

[laughing all around]

CH: Sorry, that was the wrong clipe there. I mean, but he also promoted a very level-headed underwear choice while dressed as a bunch of grapes. That is, before Samuel E. Wright got his big break -- as the voice of Sebastian the crab, friend of Ariel the mermaid, in Disney's "The Little Mermaid". Mr. Wright died this week. He was 74 years old. The actor is being remembered as a person who could walk into a room and provide "PURE JOY to those he interacted with" ... someone who "loved to make people smile and laugh." But in a 1991 interview, it was his sober side that Mr. Wright cited as the root of his success, saying: "I take every role I get seriously, whether it's a crab or a grape." Mr. Wright died on Monday at the age of 74.

May 25, 2021 Episode Transcript

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