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The AIH Transcript for August 18, 2020

Hosts: Helen Mann and Talia Schlanger

Prologue

HELEN MANN: Hello. I'm Helen Mann, sitting in for Carol off.

TALIA SCHLANGER: Good evening. I'm Talia Schlanger, sitting in for Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

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TS: Tonight:

HM: No retreat. Prime Minister Justin Trudeau is proroguing parliament after the resignation of his finance minister. The Conservative Party finance critic Pierre Poilievre says he won't let the government avoid accountability that easily.

TS: Meanwhile, newly shuffled Cabinet Minister Dominic LeBlanc says the Liberals remain best poised to steer the country's recovery with new Finance Minister Chrystia Freeland in the driver seat.

HM: Doctors disorders. Statistics tell us Black babies die three times more often than White ones. And our guest says new research shows there's one factor that can make all of the difference for survival: Black doctors.

TS: A narrow escape. Afghan peace negotiator Fawzia Koofi was nearly killed on Friday. She tells us she believes attackers targeted her because she's a woman with a powerful voice.

HM: Shrewd advice. If you want to find a missing animal, ask its human neighbours. We'll talk to a researcher about the first documented elephant shrew sighting in 50 years, and about the role Djibouti locals played in tracking it down.

TS: And window of opportunity. Where most of us see inevitably gross public bathrooms, the Tokyo Toilet Project sees a chance to do things differently by making the washroom's walls see-through. As It Happens. The Tuesday Edition. Radio that's got you covered bidet and night.

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Part 1: Afghan peace negotiator says she won't let an assassination attempt stop her

Morneau resigns: Conservatives

Guest: Pierre Poilievre

CHRYSTIA FREELAND: [SOUNDCLIP: I, Chrystia Freeland, do solemnly and sincerely promise and swear that I will truly and faithfully and to the best of my skill and knowledge execute the powers and trusts proposed in me as Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance. So help me god.]

TS: Hello, Chrystia Freeland. Goodbye, Bill Morneau. That was Deputy Prime Minister Freeland at her swearing-in this afternoon for her new post. She replaces Mr. Morneau as finance minister, the first woman in Canada to hold the job. Bill Morneau, of course, resigned last night after days of speculation about whether he had the prime minister's support. Here's Justin Trudeau.

JUSTIN TRUDEAU: [SOUNDCLIP: Through this pandemic, we have done many extraordinary things for Canadians. And every step of the way Bill has been at my side, by my side, leading the economic challenges that we faced being there for Canadians. And as we look to this next phase of rebuilding the Canadian economy in the coming year, in the coming years, we need a team that is focused on the future. It has been a privilege to work with Bill, and I wish him all the very best in the coming years. But I'm excited about the work that the team is going to have in front of us in the coming months and years. Chrystia Freeland and I have had conversations over the past almost decade now about how we need to create a fairer country for Canadians, how we need to grow the economy in ways that helps everyone. She wrote a book on the subject and has been a key player in my government since day one. As we look to building a better, more fair Canada that is prosperous and creating real opportunity for everyone, I can think of no one who is better suited to work alongside me and the rest of this amazing team as our finance minister, to build that better future for Canadians. And we will continue to focus on what Canadians need in the coming months and years.]

TS: The Liberal government has also prorogued parliament until September 23rd. Pierre Poilievre is the Conservative finance critic. We reached him in Ottawa.

HM: Mr. Poilievre, you have been calling for Bill Morneau's to resign. Are you satisfied now?

PIERRE POILIEVRE: Partially. His resignation was overdue. But the reasons for his resignation also apply to Justin Trudeau. In fact, they're amplified for Mr. Trudeau. Bill Morneau resigned because he broke the ethics law twice. Trudeau broke it three times. He resigned because he got a 41,000 dollar illegal vacation from a group to which he provided public funds. But Trudeau and his family got over half a million dollars from the same group.

HM: Let me stop you for a moment, because you say Mr. Morneau broke the ethics law twice. I just want to clarify, as far as I can see, it was once.

PP: If I could just finish my answer. I know the CBC likes to protect Justin Trudeau. But he got more than 12 times as much as Mr. Morneau. And so if Morneau is being fired for breaking the Ethics Act and taking 41,000 dollars, why isn't Trudeau also being fired?

HM: Let me ask you again. You say that Mr. Morneau broke the ethics laws twice. He was found guilty of breaking the ethics law once. He had been investigated. But what are you referring to?

PP: Well, he took a 41,000 dollar illegal vacation from an organization to which he gave millions of dollars of public funds.

HM: The ethics commissioner has not found him guilty, even if he's being investigated. Is that not the case?

PP: And that was why it was a pre-emptive move by the prime minister to get rid of him before that conviction is realized.

HM: So you don't buy Mr. Morneau's statement that he's stepping aside because he wasn't willing to stay on through the pandemic recovery?

PP: Nor does he.

HM: Do you have more confidence in his replacement, Chrystia Freeland?

PP: I was surprised by the choice of Chrystia Freeland. She presided over the W scandal. She was the chair of the COVID committee that approved the half billion dollar grant to this organization, which had given Trudeau's family a half a million dollars. So I was curious -- if Trudeau was trying to distract from the scandal by moving up one minister. But he's moved in another minister who's also implicated in the same scandal.

HM: Do you have confidence that she can handle the economic challenges right now?

PP: Well, she failed with regards to the NAFTA renegotiation. Of course, we just saw the fruits of her failure last week when Mr. Trump was able to just simply apply new tariffs on aluminum, something that I would have thought the renewed NAFTA agreement would have banned him from doing. We also have tariffs on our softwood lumber and Buy America policies that kill manufacturing and construction jobs in Canada. I thought that we would have solved all of those in that negotiation, but Ms. Freeland failed to do that. She's also a big believer in high taxes. In fact, she's quoted as saying, "Amen to higher taxes." I think a tax increase would be the last thing we'd want to do -- we could send our economy spiraling into an even greater crisis at a time when we're already under economic collapse.

HM: What is your alternative to higher taxation, given the state of the economy right now?

PP: Well, higher taxation would be the best way to destroy our economy in a time like this when consumers, small businesses, households and entrepreneurs are suffering. A tax increase would crush them. So the Conservatives will fight tooth and nail against any attempt by Ms. Freeland or Mr. Trudeau to raise taxes on Canadians.

HM: The COVID-19 pandemic, of course, presented an unprecedented crisis. It continues to. Would you not have provided the pandemic support that the Liberals did?

PP: Of course we would have provided support. We would not have gone into this crisis up to our eyeballs in debt. Justin Trudeau reminds us of the Grasshopper and Aesop's fable, who spends the summer dancing and singing and playing while the ants who were responsible stored away food for the winter.

HM: Which programs would you have not provided then?

PP: Now the winter has come and the grasshopper has nothing to eat. So we would not have gone into this crisis with a 30 billion dollar deficit. We would have controlled spending and kept a balanced budget as we have left the previous government when they took office. We would also have unleashed the mighty force of our private industry. Our energy sector could be paying far more into the Treasury if it had pipelines to get world prices. We would also eliminate destructive taxes that hurt our businesses and kill our jobs. So those are the things we would have done differently. We would have entered the pandemic with far more strength and financial vigor.

HM: We understand now that the Liberals have asked for their propagation of parliament until September 23rd. You have been calling for documents related to the We controversy to be released before that prorogation. If you don't see them today, what do you do?

PP: Well, we're told that those documents might be released. We will hold with reserve judgment till we actually see them. And we also want to know how much they have been redacted. But either way, Mr. Trudeau's decision to prorogue today, rather than just holding off on prorogation until right before parliament opens, means that he is shutting down the committee investigations into the We scandal. So it really is a cover up prorogation.

HM: You are calling on the prime minister to resign. This is a minority government. The Bloc Quebecois has said already that they are ready for a vote of non-confidence. If you want the prime minister to go, will you trigger an election at the earliest chance?

PP: We want the Canadians to have the truth about the prime minister directing this half billion dollar grant to this group that paid off his family. We want all of the truth to be known before Canadians vote. You know, we're going to use our parliamentary strength to get to the bottom of this scandal and hold the government to account before we go to an election.

HM: Are you just trying not to tip your hand? Because it's hard for many people to believe that given the amount of criticism coming from your side that we're going to see you uphold this government.

PP: The answer to your question is yes.

HM: Mr. Poilievre thank you very much for taking time to talk to us.

PP: Good to be with you.

TS: Pierre Poilievre is the Conservative Party's finance critic. He was in Ottawa.

Morneau resigns: Liberals

Guest: Dominic LeBlanc

TS: Liberal MP Dominic LeBlanc was also part of today's cabinet shuffle. He takes over the intergovernmental affairs portfolio from Ms. Freeland. We reached him in Ottawa.

HM: Dominic LeBlanc, the Conservatives say that your party is basically shuffling the deck chairs and what you should really be doing is providing some more answers about We. What do you say to that?

DOMINIC LEBLANC: We have been very transparent with a number of parliamentary committees. The prime minister testified before a parliamentary committee. Many ministers have gone before committees. This is not about transparency or making public thousands of pages of documents which, of course, the government has done. We thought it was important and the prime minister thought it was important to prepare for a fall session of parliament with a new throne speech that would be relevant to the unprecedented challenges facing Canada and Canadians. And that's why we decided to probe parliament and bring it back with a new throne speech and immediately, of course, followed by confidence votes.

HM: Let me get to the progression in just a moment. First of all, I want to ask you a bit more about the finance portfolio and this really major shakeup because Bill Morneau leaving at this particular time of crisis is, I guess, came as a surprise to some people. And many are questioning why he would go now, despite what he says. Was he pushed out because of his involvement with the We organization and this ethics investigation?

DL: No, that's not the case at all. The prime minister and Bill Morneau addressed that very clearly yesterday and again today. Mr. Morneau has done a terrific job as Canada's finance minister. I feel privileged to have served with him. But once he had decided not to be a candidate in the next election, he told the prime minister this week that it would be important to have a finance minister who would be there for the medium and long term to prepare the Canadian economy and Canadians for the challenges that lie ahead. And that's why he decided to leave the portfolio and leave the House of Commons.

HM: Can you understand why it looks convenient to some people that he's chosen to leave now while this is an ethics investigation is underway and while the government is facing so much criticism about We?

DL: But again, the government has been and Mr. Morneau himself has been very transparent and open around the circumstances of that decision. It's an unprecedented time. And that's what the government has been focused on. But in no respect has Mr. Morneau or the prime minister or any minister avoided answering questions and making public all of the information that's needed. And the ethics commissioner continues his work. But the time was right in Mr. Morneau's view and the prime minister's view. And I think Chrystia Freeland will do an absolute terrific job as finance minister as well.

HM: You say it's time to set a new path forward with this prorogation, but we heard the Conservative finance critics say that it is really a way to shut down the investigations into the We contract. What do you say to that?

DL: Well, the Conservatives certainly would know a great deal about shutting down parliament. Mr. Poilievre, of course, would have been very proud of the draconian actions that Mr. Harper took when he prorogued parliament for many, many weeks, an unprecedented move to avoid a confidence vote. What we have done is prorogued parliament to bring back a new session of parliament with a legislative agenda that will reflect the unique challenges that are facing the country and that will be followed in the very first days after the throne speech by a confidence vote. And I think it's also important to know that parliament is coming back the same week that it was originally scheduled to return. So unlike Mr. Harper, who in a rather draconian way avoided a confidence vote, we have done absolutely none of that.

HM: Mr. Poilievre says that in this instance it's a question of shutting down an investigation not just trying to avoid a confidence vote again.

DL: Again, Members of Parliament have access to the thousands of pages of documents they had requested. Those were all made available. The ethics commissioner continues his examination of this issue. And when parliament comes back two days after the originally scheduled date, Mr. Poilievre can ask all the same questions he wants over and over again. We think Canadians want parliamentarians of all political parties to focus on the public health and economic needs that are facing the country. But Mr. Poilievre can decide what questions he wants to ask.

HM: How do you reassure Canadians and, in your new portfolio, the provinces that your government can keep the economy on track in the midst of this pandemic?

DL: Probably by doing what we have done successfully to date, is work in close collaboration with provincial governments and other orders of government, municipal governments as well, to ensure that Canadians obviously feel protected in terms of the public health concerns that they understandably have. But at the same time, work with provinces and work with business and economic leaders on a safe restart of the economy, on some of the structural challenges facing the economy from this unprecedented shutdown that took place about a few months ago. We have, I think, shown Canadians that our most important priority will be to ensure that they're safe and have access to the services they require, including the economic support they needed to go through this pandemic, which is not over. And we'll continue to work with provinces in that regard.

HM: The July fiscal update saw an enormous deficit: 343-billion dollars. Should Canadians expect more of the same?

DL: Again, Minister Freeland has been in the job for about a few hours. She obviously will be working with the prime minister and other cabinet colleagues as we prepare the safe restart and the economic recovery that Canadians expect their governments to focus on -- focus on collectively. And we'll continue to show Canadians that we'll support them through this unprecedented time. We make no apologies from having done what was necessary to support Canadians and to work with partner governments, provincial and territorial governments. And we'll continue to do that. That is going to be a priority for as long as COVID-19 remains the challenge that it is.

HM: Minister LeBlanc thank you for joining us.

DL: Thank you for having me on your program.

TS: Dominic LeBlanc is the new Intergovernmental Affairs Minister. He was in Ottawa.

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Afghan peace negotiator shot

Guest: Fawzia Koofi

TS: More than a dozen rockets landed in Kabul, Afghanistan today, injuring at least 10 people. Fawzia Koofi followed the latest news from her hospital bed. The Afghan peace negotiator is herself recovering after being attacked on Friday. She was shot in what officials are investigating as an assassination attempt. The violence continues despite a peace agreement signed by the U.S. and the Taliban earlier this year. Ms. Koofi is a former lawmaker in Afghanistan, and now she's part of the team set to hold peace talks with the Taliban -- one of the few women negotiators. We reached Ms. Koofi in Kabul just after she was released from hospital.

HM: Ms. Koofi, how are you feeling today?

FAWZIA KOOFI: I have an injury in my right hand and they just removed the bullet two-three days ago. Still, it damaged the bone and it damaged the tissues. So pain -- a lot of pain.

HM: And what is the prognosis? Are you going to retain full use of your hand, do you think?

FK: Let's wait and see because the two fingers cannot really move. The doctors are saying, let's wait for the ones to be healed and then we see how the bone could be repaired.

HM: Could you take us back to Friday? Tell us how it all unfolded.

FK: I was in a car with my daughter. Two Corolla cars were chasing us from a certain part of the road and getting close to a place which was more crowded. Before we get to that place, one of the Corolla cars actually blocked our road. And then the other one started shooting. So the first bullet got to my shoulder and hand. But then we started, instead of responding to these shootings, we kind of ran away. And the second bullet reached the car. So I think the other bullets were kind of missed because we managed to run away.

HM: What went through your mind in those moments?

FK: The first bullet that I got, I did not realize that I was shot in my shoulder. After a few seconds, I saw the bleeding. And then I saw that my hand cannot move. And I told my daughter, who was sitting in the car with me and the security guard, that I got a bullet shot. It took one hour before I reached the hospital in Kabul. The whole time what crossed my mind was basically what my daughter was telling me. You know, she was extremely sad and devastated. And she was telling me to keep my eyes open. And she was telling me to stay alive. She was telling me how much she needed me. And that kind of kept my mind so busy that I did not even (go) out of conscious because, of course, the first thing we know (what) happens in those moments is your loved ones -- so I have two daughters, and I am a single parent as you know. But of course, the second thing was that, you know, Why me? I have done nothing wrong to this country. I have always tried to be an agent of goodwill for my country. You know, what did I do wrong that these people hate me to the extent that they want to kill me?

HM: What do you think the answer to that is? What do you think is behind this? And who do you think? Because the Taliban is denying that they were involved in the attack.

FK: So the security officials came several times to the hospital to complete their investigations, at least from my side. I am now hoping that they will come up with an answer because it's not about me as an individual. We have started this (inaudible) for woman rights in Afghanistan post-Taliban regime. And I think we have set some examples for the younger generation. The younger generation really look at us and want to see how, you know, we can help for the progress of the country. If these voices like us, of women like us, are silenced, I think we do not give a good message of motivation for the younger generation. So it's not about one individual. And I think that's what these people want whoever is behind this. Whether it's Daesh, be it armed groups, militias, whoever the enemies are, or even the Taliban -- they want to give the younger generation a message that the women of Afghanistan have no space. Althought the Taliban rejected this, denied this, but whatever groups there are, whatever groups behind such kind of targeted assassinations are, they want to give a message. And the message is clear -- they do not want an Afghanistan where every individual, man and woman, have equal rights.

HM: What sort of investigation would you like to see into this shooting? Do you have confidence that they will get to the bottom of this?

FK: To be honest, no, I do not. Because we had a lot of targeted assassinations. And nothing has kind of come to the public. And on the eve of the Afghan negotiation with Taliban, the Intra-Afghan negotiations -- and me being a member of that and the kind of vowing for an Afghanistan which lives in peace with itself and in peace with its neighbours, it's a democratic, it's a pluralistic Afghanistan where men and women, all people from across walks of life can live together. This is an Afghanistan I have been working for and I am trying to pursue during the talks. I think on the eve of talks, people really want to, you know, see these voices like me getting stronger and therefore people deserve an answer, an answer on who was behind it, how it was planned. I'm lucky that I survived. It's just a matter of five centimetres away from my neck. If this bullet was just five centimetres to my neck, probably today I was not able to talk to you.

HM: We heard from the Afghan government yesterday that it does not plan at this point to release hundreds of Taliban prisoners until more of its own soldiers are freed. What impact do you think that this might have in delaying an already delayed peace process?

FK: You know, that they said releasing of Taliban prisoners was not an agreement between the Afghan government and the Taliban. It was agreed upon in the agreement between the U.S. and the Taliban. So from the first day, there were a lot of things for negotiations. But now that the Jirga has approved the release of the Taliban prisoners, I think they should be released. And in return, I think the Taliban should also release the Afghan soldiers who are in prison with them because people of Afghanistan want to see trust. They need to see trust on this process. They need to see some goodwill by Taliban. They need to see flexibility.

HM: Do you have any indication that the Taliban will do that? Are you confident in what lies ahead for the negotiations?

FK: I cannot say really anything on behalf of Taliban. What I can say is I am sure and I have confidence that the Intra-Afghan negotiations will start hopefully soon because we need to do that. There is no alternative. I have kind of almost lost my right hand in addition to whatever else that I have lost in the war. But I still want to go to these talks with this kind of injured arm, because this is a symbol of how desperate we are for peace.

HM: I wanted to ask you about your daughter because you described her keeping you going on that ride to the hospital. And obviously, this would be pretty traumatizing. How is she doing?

FK: She was traumatized and she still is. But I think she has grown up with me. She has the blood in her that gene, and she is strong. Of course, she was crying from the time that, you know, she saw blood and I was injured. She was crying until the hospital. And when we got to the hospital, she was relieved that at least now I'm in a doctor's hand. But, of course, it's a life of children in Afghanistan and made Afghanistan face these kind of traumas every day, every day they lose their family members. And it's not just about numbers. It's about human beings with all the dreams, with all the wishes, with all the talents, that we lose them.

HM: Well, in fact, we're hearing today about a mortar attack in Kabul that has wounded at least 10 people, including four children. Do you know anything about that attack?

FK: Yeah, I was in the hospital when this happened, actually. And, you know, the moment -- I've kind of grown up in the war, but the moment I heard this rocket attack, it once again reminded me of the attack that happened to me. Everything that happens nowadays, even if Taliban do not take responsibility, fingers point at them because they are the major kind of violent extremist groups. So therefore, I think they have to really come to the negotiation table.

HM: Ms. Koofi, I very much appreciate you speaking with us today. And I hope your hand recovers and that you have much success in your efforts.

FK: Thank you so much.

HM: Thank you. Goodbye.

TS: Fawzia Koofi is part of the team in Afghanistan that is preparing to negotiate peace with the Taliban. We reached her in Kabul where she is recovering from an attempt on her life. For more on this story, visit our website: cbc.ca/aih.

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Part 2: Black babies more likely to survive if they have Black doctors: study

Black newborns study

Guest: Rachel Hardeman

TS: In the United States, Black newborns die at three times the rate of White babies. But a newly published study has identified one factor that could help shrink this death rate disparity: the race of the doctor. Dr. Rachel Hardeman and her co-authors looked at infant survival rates in 1.8-million hospital births in Florida. She's an associate professor at the University of Minnesota School of Public Health.

HM: Dr. Hardeman, what did you discover about how a doctor's race affects a newborn babies chance of survival?

RACHEL HARDEMAN: So what we know in the United States is that Black newborns or Black infants are three times more likely to experience infant mortality. And what we found was that when a Black newborn is cared for by a Black physician, they are more likely to survive. And so ultimately, what we found is that the penalty is cut in half when Black physicians caring for a Black newborn.

HM: And when you say they're caring for, are we talking about the obstetrician who delivers the baby or the initial care by a pediatrics person?

RH: Right. So we looked actually at both. And what we see is that regardless of the specialty, that when a Black physician is a part of the newborn's care, that the disparities are halved.

HM: So does the race of a doctor caring for White babies make a difference in their likelihood of survival?

RH: It doesn't seem to matter for White babies.

HM: It's an astonishing difference. What are the possible reasons why the race of an attending doctor could make such a significant difference to the survival of a Black newborn?

RH: That's the, I think, million dollar question. I will say that, you know, our study couldn't get at those mechanisms, right. So we're able to say this is what's happening, but we're not able to really sort of illuminate why. But I will say, based on my research and many other scholars, we know that implicit racial bias or unconscious or automatic bias happens in the clinical encounter where a physician is drawing on the ways that they've been taught both implicitly and explicitly to think about race. It can have an impact on clinical decision making. It can have an impact on how a provider unintentionally treats a patient. We also know that our health care system in the United States, you know, has to grapple with a lot of issues throughout our history related to racism that have had an impact on the trust that people have when they're interacting with the health care system. And I should have started by saying, I think that the reasons are really complex and there's not one primary reason. I think it's a constellation of different issues that are showing up.

HM: Have you seen incidents of this kind of racism toward Black moms and babies in your own work? I mean, can you share some thoughts or examples on that?

RH: I've been leading a research study for the past few years where we're partnering with a Black-owned freestanding birth centre in a community that has historically been incredibly marginalized. But what we're seeing for the families birthing at the birth centre is that their outcomes are not reflecting the disparities that we see in the rest of the state and across the country. And in that process, we've also learned a lot about what's gone wrong for these families and for these mothers when they've accessed care in other systems. So we've heard stories about women feeling disrespected or not heard by their provider. We've heard stories around women saying, you know, I had a toxicology screen run on me for no reason and I don't use drugs and I'm not using any, you know, illegal or concerning substances, and no one even asked me, they just assumed, based on the colour of my skin, that I was abusing substances. You know, we hear stories about people not feeling they had any control over what was happening to them during the birthing process and all of these sort of things that, you know, really contribute to challenging experiences during a really vulnerable time in someone's life.

HM: What about Black mothers who have been cared for by Black doctors? What do they tell you about their experience?

RH: You know, what we see is that people who received care from a Black midwife were more likely to report being satisfied with that care, feeling like they were a partner in that care, feeling respected, feeling heard. What we're seeing is that there's something about, you know, sharing a lived experience that can be incredibly important. And that's not to say that, you know, because I think the next question often then is so should Black women only see Black providers for pregnancy and childbirth? And I don't think that that's necessarily the answer. But I do think that there's something to be said for being able to feel some sort of trust and a relationship with one's provider.

HM: So what do you think that hospitals and individual doctors need to do to address this disparity then between now Black and White newborns are cared for or the exchange of information with parents?

RH: You know, I think we certainly have to start by thinking about and doubling down on our efforts here in the United States around diversifying our physician workforce. Black people make up 13 percent of the U.S. population, but only five percent of physicians identify as Black. I definitely think we need to be considering medical education and what our curriculum looks like and how we're training physicians to both understand the history of racism in our country and the fact that health care systems and health care delivery is not immune from that. It's embedded and baked in to health care delivery and medicine. You know, part of that is also considering and listening to Black birthing people and really hearing what they need and what they want. But I think what's really compelling about our findings with respect to newborns is that because they're newborns, the communication, you know, aspect doesn't exist.

HM: What does this research and your findings mean to you personally?

RH: You know, for me personally, as a Black woman who has had a child, I have a seven year old daughter -- you know, I certainly was fortunate enough to seek out and find and build a health care team and a team that I knew really cared for me and my well-being. And I think everyone should have an opportunity to have that. And, you know, I do the work that I do around understanding the impact of racism on reproductive health and maternal child health outcomes for that reason, because I know what's possible, I've experienced what's possible. And there's so many people that haven't had that opportunity and won't get that opportunity. And we have to be able to change that.

HM: What is your advice then to other Black women who are going to give birth in the future?

RH: Don't be afraid to ask questions, particularly early on and really seeking out the right fit for them. And it's okay, if something doesn't feel right, to make a change. I think it's important for people to know that they have a great deal of agency to explore what feels right for them and to take the steps to find that.

HM: It's very good to talk with you Dr. Hardeman. Thank you very much.

RH: Thank you for having me.

TS: Dr. Rachel Hardeman is a reproductive health equity researcher and an associate professor at the University of Minnesota School of Public Health. Her research is published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

[Music]

Joseph Gosnell

TS: British Columbians are mourning the death of Joseph Gosnell. The Nisga'a hereditary chief is being remembered as a beacon of hope for reconciliation. Mr. Gosnell wanted to remove his First Nation from the jurisdiction of the federal Indian Act, and he spent more than 20 years making that a reality. His work led to the first modern treaty in British Columbia. The hereditary chief and chancellor of the University of Northern British Columbia was 84. The Nisga'a treaty came into effect in 2000 when the Indigenous community began self-governing, operating their own schools and health services and holding title for more than 2000 square kilometres of land. Back in July 1998, Mr. Gosnell spoke with guest host Ann Medina about what the treaty meant for the Nisga'a.

JOSEPH GOSNELL: We've made some compromises, but I think we have also made some gains in other areas. It's not strictly a one-way street from my point of view. In order for people to fully recognize what benefits will be flowing from the treaty itself, they must read the document in its entirety. If you just pull out land and look at land, you'll say, boy, did those guys ever get [inaudible]. But he did look at governance issues, our abilities to access resources, which we never had the ability to do before. And I think the contents of the agreement, the final agreement, will give our people a clear indication of what their participation will be or might be in the foreseeable future.

ANN MEDINA: Do you feel that the community will be able to make that transition smoothly, you know, to go into a whole new structure and self-governance? That can be a very difficult and tricky thing sometimes.

JOSEPH GOSNELL: Well, the journey that we've completed has been long and difficult, and I would expect the journey into the future will be long and difficult. But certainly, I think our people have the ability to make that transition.

TS: From our archives, that was Nisga'a hereditary chief Joseph Gosnell speaking with As It Happens in 1998. Mr. Gosnell has died. He was 84.

[Music]

John Ratzenberger

TS: The beleaguered U.S. Postal Service continues to make headlines this week. Democrats are demanding an investigation of the new postmaster general. Under pressure, he today vowed to suspend the cost cutting policies that critics were worried would delay mail-in ballots for November's election. But President Donald Trump has effectively admitted to hampering the U.S. Postal Service. And many Americans say their mail is already running late. It's a lot. But this morning, postal workers got at least one piece of comforting news, a message of support from one of their own.

JOHN RATZENBERGER: Hey everybody. John Ratzenberger here. That's right -- the former mailman for the TV show Cheers. And speaking of mailmen, the post office is in a little bit of a pickle right now. And it's certainly in the news being bounced back and forth. So I had no idea: why not do all your Christmas shopping early at the post office store? Yeah in the post office, they got a store there. Obviously stamps and things like that. So why not translate the dollar amount you are going to pay for Aunt Tilly's new hat and just buy that amount of stamps. Easy to carry, easy to mail, easy to ship. And it's worth something. And it'll be worth something for a long time. And how many times is Aunt Tilly going to be wearing that hat? Once? Twice? But how many times will she be using those stamps? That's right. Always thinking. So help your local post office. Go down there and buy something. Take care.

TS: John Ratzenberger, a.k.a. Cliff the mailman from the TV show Cheers, urging Americans to show a little love for their local post office by shopping there. Mr. Ratzenberger recorded the message after musician Tim Kasher made a request on the celebrity video platform Cameo. Democrat lawmakers seem convinced it's going to take more than stamp purchasing to turn U.S. PS fortunes around. But Cliff does make a good point about the hats.

[Music]

Tiny shrew rediscovered

Guest: Steven Heritage

TS: It's been nearly half a century since researchers have laid eyes on the Somali Sengi. This tiny creature, a species of elephant shrew, was thought by scientists to have disappeared...until now. A team of research researchers has once again found the Sengi in Djibouti, and they found it by consulting with local people and relying on their knowledge. The research was published today in the journal PeerJ. Steven Heritage is a researcher at Duke University and part of the team that found the Somali Sengi. We reached Mr. Heritage in Durham, North Carolina.

HM: Steven Heritage, what went through your mind when you saw the Somali Sengi for the first time?

STEVEN HERITAGE: I've been working on Sengis in general for several years, and one of our co-authors and collaborators, Dr. Galen Rathbun has been working on Sengis for over 40 years. So really to see what in the wild was really overwhelming. We opened up the trap that had the first Somali Sengi in it, and we saw the diagnostic character that it had this hair tuft at the end of the tail, which is not present in any other species of Sengi in the Horn of Africa. And we knew right away it was a Somali Sengi. It was very special and that we could fill in some of the data that had been missing to science for several decades.

HM: You mentioned this tuft of hair. Tell me a bit more about the appearance of this thing. What is the Sengi look like?

SH: So a Sengi is a mouse sized mammal. They belong to the taxonomic order Macroscelidea. They're not rodents or mice in any way. Their previous name the elephant shrews has been avoided. We call them Sengis now, in part because obviously they're not elephants and they're not shrews in any way either. And so it's really a misnomer to call them that. They're furry. They're quite adorable. They have a long gaited flexible nose that they use to push through ground debris to look for the insects that they eat. They have enormous long legs. The proportions of their hind limbs are closer to what you would expect for a gazelle or an antelope than for a small mammal. So they're incredibly adapted runners some species are able to sprint at nearly 30 kilometres per hour.

HM: Wow!

SH: Yeah, it's amazing. They also have this kind of rare in mammal species that have a monogamous mating system where males and females pair bond for life and they share a relatively small home range that's exclusive of other pairs around them.

HM: So they're pretty special. I mean, they have a lot of unique features.

SH: They have a lot of unique features. They're really one of those curiosities of mammal biology.

HM: Now, how did your team use knowledge from local people to help you find this animal?

SH: That's a really important outcome of our study. So we had heard in the scientific community for many years that there were some species unknown that was in the nation of Djibouti, despite several small mammal trips to Djibouti, nobody had ever documented any of them there. But when we contacted our colleague that works at Association Djibouti Nature name is Hussein Rawleigh. He told us that he, over his many years working in the field, he had seen Sengis there. So when we would show up at a prospective field site, we would show up with a photo set of different small mammals, mice and gerbils and Sengis. And we would have him talk to the locals in Somali language about what the common name for these animals were, how often they see them, what habitats they use. And that really helped us zero in on finding the Somali Sengi in those habitats. It turns out that it's a common critter in those areas.

HM: So when we say it's been rediscovered, it's really just has been re-seen by researchers like you. The locals knew all along and so did some other people.

SH: Yeah, the people that live there know that there's elephant shrews in their landscapes. As far as being able to generate new information, that's species specific, it's very important for scientists to get involved as well.

HM: You mentioned that you trap them to find them. How did you manage to do that?

SH: Good old fashioned field biology uses these live trap aluminum boxes, and we laid out thousands of traps, paced apart, and we baited the front end of life traps with sort of a mixture of oatmeal and peanut butter and Marmite. And this is the kind of thing that has worked in the past for Sengi species that occur elsewhere in Africa. You can imagine if you're a small mammal living in essentially a desert and you smell something like peanut butter, you know, it's going to be attractive -- I've never smelled anything like that out here, let me go check out what that is.

HM: Right. So even though they tend to eat things like bugs, they don't mind peanut butter either.

SH: [Chuckles] Well, I think we all like peanut butter.

HM: Yeah, I do. So tell me about what you learned about the Sengi on this trip.

SH: So from a conservation stand point we found that percent trapping success was about the same as elsewhere in Africa for other species, comparable species abundance is good. The outlook is good. Based on the local knowledge, Sengi are everywhere, we know that they can't be rare, which is good. We know that the previous geographic range, which was just endemic to northern Somalia, is not the case, they actually occur in other countries in the Horn of Africa too. So as far as conservation is concerned, I think we generated a lot of new information that has a positive outlook for now for the Somali Sengi.

HM: I understand that they were on the global wildlife conservation groups list for Search for Lost Species project. I guess, does this mean they're off?

SH: They should be. We reported it to global wildlife conservation first. And I think that GWC has a little feather in their cap for finding another one of these rarely studied and data deficient taxa.

HM: What's left to learn about them?

SH: Actually, we know nothing about them, really. There's never been any reports of lives Somali Sengis, about their basic biology, their behaviour, what they eat, their diets or habitats. In 2022, we're planning another expedition where we're going to go in and radio tag some Somali Sengis and follow them around with the satellite and see how they use their space, how they overlap their space with other male-female pairs. And we'd like to continue to document the extent of occurrence throughout the Horn of Africa. And then one other thing would be, is that we hope to implement a program in Djibouti where university students can help us with a long term sampling to monitor population trends over time.

HM: Well, it's great that you found these things -- they are really cute in the picture I've seen.

SH: In science, we call them charismatic microfauna, which translates to a cute animal.

HM: [Chuckles] Well, good luck with the rest of your research and thank you for telling us about the find.

SH: Yeah. Thanks a lot. Take care.

TS: Steven Heritage is a researcher at Duke University and part of the team who found the Somali Sengi. We reached Mr. Heritage in Durham, North Carolina.

[Music]

Transparent Toilets

TS: You've got a big presentation to give, a job interview, some kind of audition, and there's that one piece of advice you keep getting: picture them naked. It's always been sort of dubious council, nude strangers are perhaps not actually all that comforting. Ditto imagining then imagining you starkers. So it's hard to wrap your head around the approach taken by the Tokyo Toilet Project. They've made their new public washrooms, well, transparent. They say their new-fangled design addresses two common public toilet challenges, knowing if the bathroom is clean and knowing if someone else might be lurking inside. The builders want to make one thing perfectly clear, though. The facility's walls do become opaque upon occupation, thanks to so-called smart glass technology. One way or another, they're convinced their design will counter the perception that public washrooms are dark, dirty, smelly and scary. But if we adopt their belief that transparency is the best policy, we have to say while these transparent toilets may not be the first three dark, dirty, smelly -- they remain very firmly scary for reasons we think are pretty apparent.

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August 18, 2020 Episode Transcript

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