An interview with Rosemary Sadlier on this particular moment in Black history

As we celebrate the 25th anniversary of Black History Month in Canada, I spoke with Rosemary Sadlier — social justice advocate, author, past president of the Ontario Black History Society, and one of the original driving forces in securing the commemoration of February as Black History Month at all levels of government in Canada.

What was clear, as we talked about the need to learn about Black history, the international recognition of Black Lives Matter, and the importance of highlighting the stories of Black Canadians, is her belief in what can be achieved through the telling of the stories and experiences of Black people. 

In the 25 years of commemorating Black History Month in Canada, what surprises you most?

I really thought … we would be able to see, or get, more education in schools. The request [for] having a Black History Month … was really to see more education, and that did not happen. We are still 25 years out with no required Black history education in schools.

Why do you think we've been taught more about Black Americans in Canadian schools? 

It's always African Americans because it's the way all books are bought in Canada.... Each individual librarian or board does the buying — and the American market has so many cheap products. And because Canadians don't know about Black history, they go with what would be easy and ... cheaper. So they just get the American stuff in. It's Black; it's good enough. 

Can anything be done to push for more education or textbooks in schools today?

I was conducting some research in a library a number of years ago, and ... I went to one book that was written by a key Canadian historian, and it was about three inches thick, and it was written by J.M.S. Careless. And it was on the history of Canada. I thought, "OK, [there] has to be something in here." And I went to the … back — you cheat, and you go to the back, and you look up all the words that might direct you.... So "Black," "African," "coloured," "slave."... There were essentially two sentences: "They were slaves. They came to Canada on the underground railroad. And then they went back." [That was all the content] In a book that probably informed generations of Canadians about Black history….

I found myself writing books because there were no resources — no Canadian resources.... I encourage people to do their own … research and create some more materials.

How do you find the people and stories for your books on the history of Black Canadians? 

[For] my first book, called Leading the Way: Black Women in Canada, I started with just thinking about women I knew, and then, in speaking to them, maybe finding out about other women.... It was definitely a combination of oral history and more traditional sources of information…. I was able to go to Halifax and have … coffee with [civil rights activist] Carrie Best. In writing one of my two books on [abolitionist] Harriet Tubman, I had the opportunity to meet a Black historian in the States, Charles Blockson, and who referred me to Harriet Tubman descendants in Washington. And I interviewed them, and one of them had some of the artifacts…. And those items are now in the [National Museum of African American History & Culture] in Washington. But I had a chance to actually hold them, including the shawl that had been presented to Harriet Tubman [by Queen Victoria]. 

Over the many years, is there a particular story that stands out for you?

I know people think that the Harriet Tubman story is overtold, but it isn't, because there's so many elements to her and what she went through.... She was absolutely not what you would expect a hero to be … even in 2021. She was Black.... She was a woman, and she was short…. She was disabled due to a head injury, which effectively gave her narcolepsy.... She also married a Black man, who betrayed her, or was willing to betray her, when she wanted to make herself free. And I found I connected to that too because even when you're in the process of trying to do something meaningful and important, there are people often very close to you that are incredibly oppositional or stab you in the back. 

And she was able to act on what was important to her…. And she got little for all of her efforts. She lived in a place where she was constantly trying to help others, and the help for her was not sufficient. 

Do you think there's anyone present day that embodies that courage, fighting for the people?

I'm really excited by Black Lives Matter and the founders being nominated [for a Nobel Peace Prize].... 

We have so, so, so very far to go in helping people understand.... In terms of what does this movement stand for; what is it that we should take from George Floyd. That's what we should be looking for: making sure that we are working towards equity and doing it, yes, in terms of the beginning stages — which is Black history education — but it's taking those actions to raise awareness and hold people accountable.

I was watching an interview where you were talking about how if you're Black in Canada, you'll eventually get stopped by the police. Do you still think that's the case? 

Can I tell you something? I have been stopped. [White people think] because of the way I speak and … my educational background, I've never had any problems. 

I was standing at the front of my driveway, and a police car comes by. And he stops me and rolls down his window, and he says, "What street is this?" And I'm thinking, "What street is this? … He's a police officer, all his equipment in the car, and he doesn't know what street he's on?" … He saw me in a neighborhood he didn't believe I belonged in.... Then he drove to the end of the block, and just watched me in his rearview mirror.

I had a babysitter leave my house — a Black woman, a young woman. And she was running to the bus, and she got stopped.… My son [was] stopped on Bloor Street, where we lived in Bloor West Village. And I can't think of a [Black] person who has not been stopped… And for white people, because that's not their experience, they feel that if you're doing something bad, you'll get stopped. And that's true — you will get stopped doing something bad. But what if you're not? What if the only thing that you are is Black? 

Do you think it's getting better for people, in terms of gaining awareness? 

Since [George Floyd] was murdered, there has been an awareness-raising, just as a result. More so, his whole process has galvanized more activity than I've seen in the past 25 years. Which is good and bad. It takes the public execution of a Black man for people to say, "Oh, I guess there's something bad happening here." Nevertheless, I think ... if the pressure can remain and people continue to, you know, really do some of the work that needs to be done, and if all various levels of government and corporations and other systems accountable to make certain changes [do], then I can see things happening. But we still have a long way to go.

Is there any advice you would offer to young people trying to make a change? 

I [have been] working on having August 1 declared as Emancipation Day across Canada [since 1995]. So, that will help create more discussion about slavery and the legacy of slavery. And that's just one example of one thing I'm doing. People think that the Ontario Black History Society was my job and now that I'm not there anymore I'm not going to be doing anything. It wasn't my job — I was a volunteer.  And what I do, I will continue to do ... for me and anybody coming behind me. You really have to do what you can do ... and what will work best for you. 

You [could] consider what you really would have liked to have experienced, or known, when you were younger and try to create that for people right now. 

At the end of the day it's about giving some thought to what that better world would look like and taking those actions that you can take towards getting to that better place. 

This interview has been edited and condensed for length and clarity. 

For more stories about the experiences of Black Canadians — from anti-Black racism to success stories within the Black community — check out Being Black in Canada, a CBC project Black Canadians can be proud of. You can read more stories here.

Vanessa Magic is a freelance writer, storyteller and award-winning costume designer. Currently, she is in development with CBC to make an afrofuturist science-based kids show. She loves making up magical stories and singing songs to her adorable four-year-old son. When she is not in mama mode, she facilitates mentorships and workshops with Inclusive Stylist Toronto.